Power/Speed

[Rungaul]

So carrying a load out of 3 Mk82, 6 Mav, 2 GBU 31, 3 GBU 12 an ECM Pod and TGP as well as full 30 mm my max spd is sitting at around 260kn. Also I should mention 5200 lbs fuel. My RPM with throttle all the way up is 95%, Oil Press is 94% and Fan spd is sitting at 81%.

 

My question is should I not be able to in level flight break 300 kn with this load out?

 

My throttle is showing max fwd.

[cichlidfan]

Without firing up the ME to see what that would put your weight at, I would guess that you are seeing correct performance for the weight and drag involved.

[smnwrx]

With any kind of combat load at altitudes between 15-30,000ft I never see 300IAS I lvl flight. Keep in Mind this is different then the planes ground speed.

[Eddie]

My question is should I not be able to in level flight break 300 kn with this load out?

 

While reducing the fuel gives you a gross weight just below max takeoff at 4500 lbs, that payload gives you a drag index of 12.48, which is off the charts. With that I'm surprised you can stay in the air, never mind break 300 KIAS.

 

In short no, no you shouldn't be able to do 300 KIAS with that payload.

[Rungaul]

Thanks all.

[ENO]

While reducing the fuel gives you a gross weight just below max takeoff at 4500 lbs, that payload gives you a drag index of 12.48, which is off the charts. With that I'm surprised you can stay in the air, never mind break 300 KIAS.

 

In short no, no you shouldn't be able to do 300 KIAS with that payload.

 

 

What's a typical drag index on this platform, Eddie? I know my goto load puts me at 4.17 and usually 70-75% fuel which I can only assume is reasonable since it's a very common load from what I've read (4x38, 2x65, 7 shot WP, TGP).

 

To the OP...

 

Best thing I've read so far is "increase the number of aircraft, not the size of your payload."

 

Once you start to appreciate the aircraft's handling at lighter weight / smaller drag indexes I think you'll be an Armageddon convert like me.

[cichlidfan]

Best thing I've read so far is "increase the number of aircraft, not the size of your payload."

 

 

Another thought that points in the same direction. If you hang all of the bombs on one aircraft, the bad guys only have to stop one aircraft. ;)

[ENO]

Truth, and you make it VERY easy for them!

[JayPee]

Power/Speed

 

Rungaul, as a rule of thumb I never put on TERs. Except when I need 4 MAVs, but I generally try to go with 2. You can't fire more than 4 anyway since the inner ones' exhaust would damage your tires.. Next to that, the outer one is likely to damage the TGP so if you carry one it'll come down to two MAVs.

 

Also, if I'm absolutely sure I won't encounter threats, I leave the AIMs and ECM at home as well. I recall reading A-10s don't carry AIMs and ECM in Afghanistan for example as the AAA threat mainly consists of AKs and Dushkas.

Edited December 30, 2013 by JayPee

[Eddie]

What's a typical drag index on this platform, Eddie? I know my goto load puts me at 4.17 and usually 70-75% fuel which I can only assume is reasonable since it's a very common load from what I've read (4x38, 2x65, 7 shot WP, TGP).

 

Around 4 is a very nice drag index to be working with. In the 476th we have a maximum permitted drag index of 11.00, which is more than enough for any practical weapon configuration, although most configurations we fly are no more than 8-9.

 

Personally I try to keep it below or as close to 6 as I can for a Hi-Hi-Hi mission, and as you've said if you don't need AIM-9/ECM for the mission (which if you're able to fly the mission at medium altitude you probably don't) leave them at home. In addition, on a medium alt sortie I'll only carry 575 rounds of 30mm to loose a bit of weight, as using the gun is unlikely anyway. And the same goes for rockets, if you're at medium altitude for the whole mission using rockets is unlikely, so leave them at home and save on the drag.

 

The only thing I never change is fuel load, we always start with full tanks. But the ranges/mission durations we fly in the 476th tend to be longer than most (from what I've seen) at around 150 nm radius & 2 hours duration (although still quite short when compared with real life).

 

A few other things I (we) do, are we only carry LAU-88s (4 Mavs total) on low level sorties where Mavs are to be the primary weapon and we don't carry a TGP at the same time, likewise if we do carry other ordnance with LAU-88s it'll just be 2 CBUs/4 Mk-82s and 2 rocket pods. If we carry TERs with Mk-82s, it'll only be 2 of them for 6 bombs total, and we don't carry GBU-12s on TERs (way too much drag, and totally unnecessary).

 

My most common weapon configurations would be, standard equipment of ECM + 2 AIM-9M and: 2A65X4M82X1L131, 2A54X2C97X1L131, 2A65X6M82X1L131, 4A65X2C97X2L131, 2A65X4G12, 2A65X4G38, 4C05X2G38. And those are for our most common scenario which includes SHORAD, MERAD, LORAD, and Air threats. So naturally I don't use the PGM loads all that often, and if I do it's pretty much a "one pass, haul ass" mission.

[Snoopy]

You can't fire more than 4 anyway since the inner ones' exhaust would damage your tires.

 

:music_whistling: From Iraqi Freedom.

 

 

 

But like Eddie said, internally in the 476th we don't authorize more then 4 at a time. Myself, I can't remember the last time I carried more than 2 mavs. I only use Mavs for air defenses anyways. I'd much rather drop MK-82s on a target than launch and forget from 5 plus miles away.

[JayPee]

Power/Speed

 

Well, nice pics.. But what are you trying to say? The inner ones can still be fired without damaging the wheels?

 

What about the common belief that they shouldn't be fired then? Is that a made up story?

[Snoopy]

Well, nice pics.. But what are you trying to say? The inner ones can still be fired without damaging the wheels?

 

What about the common belief that they shouldn't be fired then? Is that a made up story?

 

I'm saying we've flown with 3 mavs in combat as recently as Iraqi Freedom, we've fired all three mavs and not experienced any damage.

 

The TO only states

 

"Launching maverick missiles from the inboard rail should be avoided to minimize paint and rain erosion coating deterioration."

 

Crew chiefs simply have to do an inspection on the inboard area as normal and if defects appear fix them.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Snoopy

[Eddie]

Well, nice pics.. But what are you trying to say? The inner ones can still be fired without damaging the wheels?

 

What about the common belief that they shouldn't be fired then? Is that a made up story?

 

As Paul says, you can carry 6 Mavs. But doing so increases maintenance requirements on the aircraft, and given the other issues already discussed (weight/drag) it isn't done often at all. Not to mention the fact that in most cases there simply won't be enough targets to warrant such a payload.

 

So it is absolutely true that 6 Mav (and 4 Mav) loads aren't generally used in reality, but they can be if the mission requires it.

[SkateZilla]

I tend to only use 4 MAVs and Combat Mix Ammo w/ Full Fuel Load (or close to it).

 

Take off, get to target area, deploy MAVs, loiter and use Guns, out of ammo, I'll climb higher and user TGP to Mark SPIs/Targets, once I hit a pre-determined fuel level I'll break off and head for home. Re-Arm, Refuel, Repeat.

 

Usually I dump/Selective Jett. the bombs/rockets and stuff after take off if I show up on a server with a locked load out.

 

 

I used to show up on ENO's server and load myself up with 6 MAVs and a bunch of MK-82s and struggle to break 250 during the flight to Target Area.... and as soon as I get into the target area, the thing handled like a MAC Truck. It was VERY Counter Productive.

Edited December 30, 2013 by SkateZilla

[JayPee]

6 Mav (and 4 Mav) loads aren't generally used in reality, but they can be if the mission requires it.

OK

[JayPee]

Rungaul, if you're interested I have put together a sheet for myself containing the default loadouts Eddie once posted (changed -131 to -184 though) and the drag indices based on those loadouts. Perhaps a few loadouts are no longer up-to-date but in general it's probably still applicable.

 

Note, I've based the ALQ-184 index on the actual ALQ-184-7 index of 0.99. Not sure whether ED is using the correct value though.

 

Should you encounter a false loadout index you can always change it in the indices tab. Cells are referenced so sheets will update. If you want to filter out specific information you can use the loadout table.

 

EDIT: Updated. Had missing LAU-105s for AIMs/CATMs and TERs instead of LAU-88s for MAVs.

Edited January 4, 2014 by JayPee

[Rungaul]

Thanks for this.

 

Rungaul, if you're interested I have put together a sheet for myself containing the default loadouts Eddie once posted (changed -131 to -184 though) and the drag indices based on those loadouts. Perhaps a few loadouts are no longer up-to-date but in general it's probably still applicable.

 

Note, I've based the ALQ-184 index on the actual ALQ-184-7 index of 0.99. Not sure whether ED is using the correct value though.

 

Should you encounter a false loadout index you can always change it in the indices tab. Cells are referenced so sheets will update. If you want to filter out specific information you can use the loadout table.