Free Su-25T vs. IR SAM

[Jimbolya]

I don't use labels - I don't want to give myself too many handicaps. I've read that new players should use labels, but once you turn them off you run into the issues I'm having right now - so - I'd just simply solve and practice; and, have a gaggle of fun in the process lol.

[Vedexent]

I've never played with labels - not even when I was just learning. It seemed to much like being a "psychic pilot". Starting out, I usually found things when they shot me :D

[kontiuka]

I just finished the Su25T Campaign on the 31st of December. It was alot of fun, abit repetitive but fun, i think hardly 1 or 2 night missions, anyway what i always ended up doing is just load the plane with essentials for it to be as light as possible and when on my way to the danger zone , try targeting first the air defences if its too difficult (which it is) you can also give instructions to your wingman to clear air defences, he might do so but ends up killed in 80% of the times.

By the way do all of you play with or without labels??

Ya, I definitely play without labels. As far as my wingman is concerned, I tell him to hold a safe distance from the battle area until I've taken out some of the AD. Then I get him to help mop up what's left. Otherwise, he just gets himself killed.

[Jimbolya]

So I did find the LLTV button - yea RCTL+O turns that sucker on. I can't wait to try that out. Using low light always seems to be better for spotting vs. black and white TV. Oh Linebacker - it's payback time...

[rajdary]

I started with labels most of the time and then ended up without, the thing is that the first missions are more difficult than the last ones so it was good for learning. Now i am onto the A10C learning curve, im not going to put labels at all for that, but its a total different experience to the Su25T. I learned so fast with it that its given me false ilusions. Just the CDU in the A10C seems as complicated as all the SU25T! LOL , but im enjoying it. (Although i have started the Georgian Oil Campaign again from the start, this time with an old 1024x768 monitor as a separate Shkval, Awesome!)

[esb77]

With the guided missiles the Su-25T is probably the best SEAD plane in DCS right now.

 

There's one key thing though.

 

For IR and EO SAM units, you have to spot them before they start shooting at you.

 

Use the mission briefing in structured missions, use the F 10 map (you can set the settings to only show enemy units that showed up in the briefing and ones that friendly units have spotted if you want a more realistic, less god's eye experience), listen to friendly flights and your wingman reporting air defense units on the radio channel.

 

Hopefully that gives you a general location for the SAMs, so that you can use the Shkval with zoom, or the LLTV pod (which is sort of cheating in daylight conditions) to spot the exact location.

 

Once you have the exact location the IR SAMs are really easy to slaughter using any of the guided missiles other than the S-25L guided rocket(its range is too short).

[Jimbolya]

Right - I've also learned to just stay out of their range as well and plink away with Vikhrs. Now it's just a ton of practice - which is the best part =).

[GGTharos]

The Su-25T isn't anything that resembles a SEAD plane, because SEAD (understand the acronym: Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) is not something that is simulated in-game. What you are doing is DEAD (Destruction of ... ), and it's only possible because the little MANPADs guys are actually visible when they should not be.

 

They should be ducking in behind rocks, hills, bushes, in and out of forests, just blending in with the terrain, etc.

[Darkwolf]

/me like :)

[esb77]

The Su-25T isn't anything that resembles a SEAD plane, because SEAD (understand the acronym: Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) is not something that is simulated in-game. What you are doing is DEAD (Destruction of ... ), and it's only possible because the little MANPADs guys are actually visible when they should not be.

 

They should be ducking in behind rocks, hills, bushes, in and out of forests, just blending in with the terrain, etc.

 

So what would you say does resemble a SEAD aircraft if not an attack aircraft capable of reliably landing guided standoff munitions on air defense units?

 

A Cessna with a cheerful multilingual person broadcasting on a powerful radio asking the enemy to, "Please don't shoot us."?

 

 

The ability to destroy air defenses is the foundation on which the ability to scare incompetent opponents into not shooting is based. DEAD is a subset of SEAD. You can suppress without destroying in some cases, but destroying is a very reliable suppressant, it makes the shooting stop.

 

In DCS world, unless a mission designer goes to heroic efforts, destruction is the only way to suppress air defenses.

 

Well, that or using the mission editor to set them as non-hostile.

 

I'd also note that the MANPADS are visible chiefly due to merciful mission designers sticking them in the middle of fields at least .5km from anything remotely resembling cover. Stick 'em in a forest and they have it better than in real life. Not only are they almost impossible to find, but they can shoot missiles at you through the trees. In real life, they'd at least have to see and shoot around the trees

[159th_Viper]

Right - I've also learned to just stay out of their range as well and plink away with Vikhrs. Now it's just a ton of practice - which is the best part =).

 

Did not see this mentioned in the thread:

 

Do not forget to switch on your Sukhogruz.

[sobek]

Sukhogruz.

 

Gesundheit! :)

[GGTharos]

So what would you say does resemble a SEAD aircraft if not an attack aircraft capable of reliably landing guided standoff munitions on air defense units?

 

I didn't word it correctly. My point is SEAD is not represented in the game.

 

A Cessna with a cheerful multilingual person broadcasting on a powerful radio asking the enemy to, "Please don't shoot us."?

 

They could just radio 'Magnum'. :D

 

I'd also note that the MANPADS are visible chiefly due to merciful mission designers sticking them in the middle of fields at least .5km from anything remotely resembling cover. Stick 'em in a forest and they have it better than in real life. Not only are they almost impossible to find, but they can shoot missiles at you through the trees. In real life, they'd at least have to see and shoot around the trees

 

In real life, you won't see them anyway.

[Sheepherder]

They should be ducking in behind rocks, hills, bushes, in and out of forests, just blending in with the terrain, etc.

 

To be fair, they also shouldn't be sitting their waiting for your plane to arrive with an Igla perched on their shoulder.

[GGTharos]

Fair enough; you can't really make the distinction between an informed and uninformed pedestrian with a tube easily in the game - ie. not super straight forward to program that in the ME, but it can be done.