Z87 motherboards: from 80 bucks to 350?

[JayPee]

Recently I dug a bit into what a new rig would cost me. I'm not saying I plan on buying one, just looking around. So far I've understood I would need a Z87 to fully benefit from overclocking a Haswell dash-K CPU. However, I cannot for the life of me figure out which motherboard I should pick. Just looking at one local supplier alone gives me about 20 MBs with a Z87, varying from 80 bucks to 350, either ASUS, MSI, or Asrock. I always thought that once I select 2133 RAM speed, dual/triple/quad channel, and the minimum number of USB ports, I would end up with one or two models of which I buy the cheapest one. So, what's up with this? And most importantly, do I really need a more expensive MB?

[HiJack]

I'm extremely satisfied with my ASUS Z87 Plus board. The Z87 pro gives more features like 2 network plugs (don’t need unless you are teaming for a server). Most online shops have "compare" selections so it’s really up to you. All ASUS Z87 boards basically do the same but if you are going to extreme overclock you should buy in the upper price range!

[ENO]

The decision can be pretty overwhelming... some of the things you need to be honest without yourself about:

 

Number of PCIe slots that are necessary and Crossfire / SLI compatability.

 

Speed capability of your RAM. Some boards have RAM slots that can accept faster speeds (stock). Overclocking RAM is still possible on other boards- but can be a finnicky procedure.

 

Number of USB2 / 3 ports. Some come with tons- some come with a few. SATA/2/3 ports also increase in numbers. most people only need a few- but some boards come with 10+ Again, reflect on your needs and look for the board that has the best number for your use (plus a little extra just in case- pardon the pun).

 

Network ports as mentioned- 2 are sometimes useful... but not often. Again- depends on your use.

 

I've been folding / overclocking on Gigagyte and Asus boards for the last 3 years and they've both proven to be great. I just finally moved away from my P6T Deluxe V2 and never had a hiccup and the boards have come a long way since then. I must admit, the new Bios setups are pretty amazing compared to the old blue monochrome ones.

 

If possible find a "bundle" that puts your chosen processor with a particular mid-range board. These are typically solid combinations and will give the basic / medium user all the bells and whistles they need. I've been happy with Asus and GB... however EVGA has great customer support and solid selection of boards. I've heard they're a "cheaper" builder... but that's not always bad.

 

Some boards are more expensive because they have more invested in appearance, some have dual bios, some don't have onboard graphics... I think there are some out there without oboard sound too. You save money with all those things you don't need. Which one of us need onboard graphics other than, perhaps, servers running with rendering turned off.

[JayPee]

So basically a Z87 is as good as any Z87, and the only thing that matters beyond this is the quality of the brand and the sum of all features mentioned above?

 

All ASUS Z87 boards basically do the same but if you are going to extreme overclock you should buy in the upper price range!

Why exactly? As this is a bit in contrast with ENO's reply?

[pacotito]

More expensive boards usually use higher quality components. The reviews I read when I was board shopping showed the higher end boards performed a little bit better. Not a big difference maybe 1-5% depending on the task. They were also able to get higher overclocks. With the 2500k the high end boards could hit 5.0-5.2 ghz. The lower end boards usually topped out around 4.8ghz. Unless youre going for a huge overclock you won't notice much difference other than specific features. I would recommend a mid-high range board that has good reviews, a good warranty, and has what you need.

[JayPee]

Well, should I decide to go shopping, I was thinking of squeezing 5 GHz out of an i7 xxxxK somehow.

[HiJack]

Then you will need the extreme top level range. Be prepared to rebuy if meltdown :D

[danilop]

Well, should I decide to go shopping, I was thinking of squeezing 5 GHz out of an i7 xxxxK somehow.

 

Look at the Asus Maximus VI ROG series boards then ... I can't speak highly enough of them. Even the smallest, mini ITX one is capable of extreme overclocking (LN2 cooled, competitive OC) so 5 GHz would be easy IF the CPU is extraordinary and cooling is adequate. Equivalent motherboard offerings from Gigabyte and MSI should get you to 5 GHz without much fuss as well.

 

But ... Good luck with CPU silicon lottery! You will definitely need it for achieving 5GHz from Haswell without investing in top of the line custom water loops and such.

Edited January 20, 2014 by danilop

[ENO]

Not to mention a batch of fresh "Unobtanium" to power the sucker... after 4.3 Haswell enjoys the electric popsicle.

[JayPee]

Are you guys somehow trying to get me away from the idea? Given the sigs here one'd assume it's almost standard practice to get a CPU to 4.0 at least...

[danilop]

5 GHz from Haswell is fairly optimistic. It's doable, but that means top custom water or other exotic cooling solution (and great CPU).

 

4.6 is more realistic goal - you should get there with majority of Haswells and closed loop water cooling solutions.

 

One quick test for Haswell on z87 motherboards:

 

Try to boot at 4.6 at 1.200 Vcore. If you succeed and get to Windows, your CPU is above average, if it's stable and stays cool (BTW, Haswell is designed to run hot) under stress test at that voltage, it's excellent. However, there are lot of Haswells which need 1.300 Vcore, even more to get stable at 4.6 and that means high temperatures and expensive coolers.

Edited January 20, 2014 by danilop

[ENO]

Haswell crosses a fence at about 4.2-4.3 where it becomes disproportionately hungry for cosmic power at an almost exponential rate. This of course leads to heating and if you have a bunch of money you want to throw into custom water cooling or more exotic phase change, LN2... dry ice setups then we'll see you at 6ghz. Heck... why not 7. Cook that bish.

 

But for the most part, strapping on your 5ghz legs at this point will likely cook (or freeze- depending on your setup) the cpu and completely limit its lifespan.

 

I guess the bigger question is... do you even know how to overclock?

[danilop]

^^

You cannot buy faster processor for gaming than properly overclocked i5 or i7 (it doesn't matter which one - they're equal in vast majority of games).

 

You don't need very expensive motherboard to overclock mildly. However, quality and over engineered MB is not a bad idea anyway - it's the foundation of the system and it should survive at least one CPU upgrade.

 

On average you should get about 20% overclock on standard aftermarket coolers which majority of gamers specify with their new systems. Nothing fancy needed. I got 11% (4.2) on stock Intel cooler :).

 

20% faster CPU is noticeable in simulation games like DCS.

 

Intel offers overclock warranty : http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

 

Haswell is the most power efficient design yet. If we assume that CPU idles most of the time (and Haswell draws negligible amount of current when idling), CPU power consumption is not a factor - GPU(s) are the major power hogs ...

[pacotito]

4.0ghz is fairly easy. Most will hit 4.5 no problem. Good CPUs can get to 4.6 or so. You would need a great CPU to hit 5.0 with decent voltages and temps. Water cooling is recommended over 4.5 ghz. Here's a quote from an overclocking article .

 

"Of the processors Asus has tested, 70% hit 4.5GHz, 30% reached 4.6GHz, and 20% made 4.7GHz. Only 10% were stable at 4.8GHz. Heat is reportedly the limiting factor, and Asus recommends using a dual-fan water cooler to prevent thermal throttling past about 4.5GHz or 1.25V. Going beyond 1.35V is apparently problematic even for high-end water coolers.

"

Edited January 20, 2014 by pacotito

[Lange_666]

I went for an Asrock Z-87 Extreme4.

I'm happy with it but the overclocking was a bit of hassle. I didn't overclock any of my previous PC's so i had to start from zero and i found it quite hard to determine which was which because Asrock use slightly different names for their voltage settings which confused me quite a bit and still as of today i have some throuble with them (just updated the firmware without writing down my settings so i had to start all over again).

But i hit 4.5Ghz with ease, currently i'm on 4,6Ghz but when on load it runs quite hot (up to 92°C), even with liquid cooling and Coolaboratory Liquid Pro as thermal paste.

 

When running DCS CPU temps level off at around 53-55°C.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Lange_666

[msalama]

Good CPUs can get to 4.6 or so.

 

My i7-2600k on an AsRock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 does that easily - I'm seeing high 60s°C when loading the system (can't remember which cooler I used when I built this computer, but it's passive and HUGE). Tried 4.8GHz with a higher Vcore once however and the bugger refused to boot, so as a wimp I'm staying at 4.6 for now thankyou ;)

[danilop]

Haswell is different beast.

 

It was designed with mobile computing from the start, and what that means is reduced power consumption while in idle (20% less) and increase while under load (10%). Haswell is designed to happily work 24/7 several degrees bellow TJ max (which is 100 degrees for this series of Intel CPUs)

 

Another addition is Fully Integrated Voltage Regulator (FIVR) which means that CPU, not the MB, decide how much juice is going to different part of CPU (memory controller, PCIe controller, GPU). It's obvious that this design will be quite sensitive to overclocking settings, particularly if you push the cache and memory controller.

 

It's difficult to have native cache ratio above 42x (although it depends on given CPU sample) and OC memory has much greater impact on CPU stability now.

 

Although overclocking Haswell to certain degree is as easy as before, above certain point you have to understand how the internal things are supposed to work and adjust settings accordingly.

Edited January 21, 2014 by danilop

[hitman]

I delidded my 4770k and used ICdiamond as TIM. Im on air cooling using a Noctua HSF, 4.6ghz on air. I dont see temps above 70c under heavy loads...unless Im using prime95. After that it gets maxed. I keep it at 4.45 just to keep temps down.

[JayPee]

Thanks, I've taken note of all that is said above.

 

And ENO, yes I have experience with overclocking, though I have to admit that goes back to an age where it wasn't done so frequently and extremely as it is now. I'm talking about pushing a 1.8 GHz Athlon XP to 2.1 GHz, and a Turion Mobile 1.6 GHz to 1.933 GHz with an ATI IGP from its standard 300 MHz core to 450 MHz. All without overheating or instabilities. I'm fairly sure that I'll manage to pick up the basics on overclocking i7s after a few evenings of browsing through overclockers.net, tomshw.com, guru3d.com, etc.

[ENO]

Yes op it's easier now especially with the k version. No having to worry about balancing ram etc- multiplier hits the CPU only.

 

A little vcore and you're done. 4.2 is a snooze. Again it starts to get less efficient over 4.2... But like the guys are saying if you get lucky you may find efficiency up to 4.4. Just have to wait and see. Anyway I love my i5 and now that I'm not folding I don't need the hyper threading anymore. Very pleased.

[JayPee]

By the way, is there any reason why I should hurry to get a pre-Haswell i7 and accompanying MB? Again, not that I'm buying as we speak but should I..

 

Also, about the costs of overclocking versus buying higher end components, I wouldn't know of a 4.4 GHz CPU which costs less than a regular i7 + some overclocking overhead costs. Not that pure GHz is the sole measurement unit, but just to make a comparison.

[hitman]

If you dont have Haswell or Ivy Bridge, just get it over with and get Haswell. Best thing about Haswell is that it plays FSX a hell of a lot better than any other chip on the market (providing you have FSX). Ive no regrets getting the hardware I have now.

[JayPee]

FSX + REX2 + ORBX + High quality custom ACFT?

[pacotito]

You should be able to get a decent oc with upper mid range. I have an extreme4 gen3 which I think was around $200usd. I can get my 2500k to 4.8ghz. Probably higher but 4.8 is my thermal limit withbmy cooling.A high end mobo would be needed unless you want a huge overclock.

[hitman]

FSX + REX2 + ORBX + High quality custom ACFT?

I have all of that and never had many issues with max settings. Got a few vids on youtube that point that out...