Thinder

Quite... In testing programs like 3D Mark I got with the same settings <> 21% faster CPU performances from the 5600X compared to the 3600X, and this before I bounded the 5600X with better RAM which gives me an extra 6.04% at 4K. Be aware that AMD are about to launch their next socket and that it will not be compatible with the actual Ryzen 5 series. So if you really are on a budget but still want to get some decent performances from your system, (which I think is important with DCS), you should try to get your priorities right from the start: Forget about OC, I get more than twice the improvement I can expect from my RAM kit than O.Cing my 5600X with a liquid cooling kit, for a similar expense (RAM premium <> £80), the CPU is still under guanranty so is the RAM, it is important to understand that if you O.C one or the other AMD offer no guaranty for them. If you upgrade in let's say 3 years time, no need for splashing too much dosh into an expensive motherboard today since the socket will change (probably last 2021 quater), instead go for an MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX and update the BIOS: 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, downloadable from this motherboard support page. You can find them for as low as £69.99 and it support the 5600X without any issues. A Ryzen 5 5600X is good for gaming in general, everyone owning one seems to be pleased with them but to take advantage of the 5600X architecture you need to bound a good RAM to it, because this processor is optimized for low latency and the recommanded frequency is 3200MHz. Another important point here: Above this frequency, the CPU controller can't handle more than 2 ranks, you shouldn't go above 2 ranks is you use a higher frequency and is you use 2 X 2 ranks, limit the frequency to 3200MHz, passed those limitations, the CPU will throttle back under load. This is a controller limit valid for both AMD and Intel CPUs. So with that in hand you can see that if you chose to go with AMD, your best options is similar to the one I use; MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX and updated BIOS, 4 X Cl14. 1 rank, 3200MHz RAM kit (don't buy two separate kits as their chips can differ from batch to batch), Ryzen 5 5600X with good cooling (I use the Artic Freezer 7X and it's cheap and good but still try to provide proper airflow inside of your case). For the CPU, if you're in the UK you can buy a 2 years guaranteed GPU from CEX, I'm delighted with my 1080Ti I got from them. # G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR Freezer 7 X That's for the AMD CPU, for Intel some well informed players might be able to offer similar solutions.

Let us know what you think about using LINUX instead of Windows in DCS, personally, if the compatibility is 100% my choice is made. Think of it, Microsoft kept loosing user Datas by the million to hackers, you can't trust them not to leak them, you can't trust them not to get political and their customer service is abysmal, why would I spend my money into yet another mediocre O.S?

Personally, I'll would rather wait for the next generation of GPU, CPUs and AMD socket, my GTX 1080Ti is excellent and unless there is at least a 50% improvment in performances I don't see any real reason to upgrade, unless premium vanishes and prices go down by 25%. This would bring a Radeon RX 6800 XT GAMING X TRIO 16G below £650.00...

Personally I am an advocate of better CPU-RAM bounding. Although the Intel and AMD CPUs are different, their controllers have the same kind of limitations; they will throttle back when the number of ranks and sticks are above what they can cope with. Typically a CPU of the generation of yours or mine shouldn't have to manage more than 4 ranks in total, that would be 4 X 1 rank or 2 X 2 ranks. This is also true for the frequencies, there is a good reason why there are recommanded speeds for them, 3200GHz being the limit above which the controller will throttle back under load, even more so if the number of RAM RANKS is also above what the controller can manage. Lower latency can often give you far better results than higher frequencies for those reasons. To give you an example, I swaped my previous kit of 2 X 2 ranks 3200GHz 16CL for a 4 X 1 rank, Cl14, 3200GHz kit and I gained more than double what I could gain with water cooling O.C of my CPU at 4K: Here are the results (Crucial RAM first. G.GKILL second) 3DMark Pro. Fire Strike Ultra 4K gaming with DirectX 11. 3840 x 2160 (16:9) (4K) MSAA x 2 MSI Afterburner ON. AMD Ryzen Master ON; Game mode. >>>>>> Graphics score: 6 496 vs 6 583. +1.33% Physics score: 23 894 vs 25 339. + 6.04% Combined score: 3 605 vs 3 654. + 1.35%. Note that my GPU also showed better results due to the fact that the CPU-to-GPU bus is no longer limited by the CPU controller, also the CPU is able to use interleaving and make the best of all RAM sticks without limitations. The only issue you can see in this method is the premium you have to pay for this kind of RAM, in my case, about <> £80 more for this kit, but hit pause and you consider this: O.C RAM or CPU will not only limit their service life but also is not under guaranty from CPUs manufacturers (at least AMD are ver clear about this), as for the cost of a good quality liquid cooled kit for your CPU, a Corsair Hydro would cost me £73.98 at least. Getting my new RAM kit was the best option by far, my PC speed is on fire using only under guaranty boosts, it runs at low temperature (no higher than 76.6°C during this CPU-Z 4 Cores test, <> 73°C in the case of the 3DMark test with an Artic 7X) everything is still under guaranty because it is not O.Ced, Latency is very low, and I havent had a single issue since I upgraded my RAM.

If you take good care of bounding your CPU to a good RAM, even your GPU will be performing better. Different from AMD, Intel CPUs with inapropriate RAM bounding can cause lower performances with Shaders, and like AMD CPUs higher latency as well, your i7 7700K controller shouldn't have to manage higher frequencies than DDR4-2133/2400 and a total of 4 banks, this limits the number of banks per stick to 1 in the case of a 4 X configuration, which would allow the controller to use inteleaving between ranks, otherwise, 2 X 2 ranks. There is really little point in running faster RAM because in any case, the gain under load is partly negated by the controller throtling down, it will show higher CPU frequencies but the real gain will be nil because your buses will run slower. The buses won't take more than what the controller is originaly designed for, on the other hand, if not limited by rank number or too high frequencies, the CPU can perform at 100% under load and the buses as well. At the end of the day, doing a little research work in Intel Forums will help you optimizing your system. Whatever RAM you chose to buy, there is another thing to look after; buy a kit with the right number of sticks from day one, by just adding another couple of sticks you take the risk of seeing your system refusing to boot simply because manufacturers can use different chips from one batch to another even with the same RAM. The Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB is a popular kit among Intel users, for higher performances you might want 1 bank/Cl14 but to take full advantage of this kind of RAM first you have to pay a premium, them use a 4 X configuration, for example mine cost <> £80 more than the kit they replace (same frequency) but offers a 6.04% increase in CPU performance at 4K, which is more than double what you can expect from O.Cing my CPU with water cooling and the dogs bollocks...

Among other things...

I took for granted his O.S being sorted but I shouldn't have since he even refuses to provide us with details about his RAM... You're entirely right, Task Manager doesn't tell you enough to diagnose the cause of high latency, but it also can come from a messy O.S, reason for optimizing it (and storage) in the first place. Having said that, I had a look at different Intel users forums and the same thing come back often enough to be noticed, as I pointed out, even if the Intel CPUs are different from the AMDs, the controllers have the same sort of limitation and apparently some players using similar CPUs experienced low shader performances due to bad RAM bounding. People take for granted the ability of their CPU to deal with whatever RAM they throw at it but it is the case with the Intel since the RAM frequency recommanded is the same DDR4 2400 than that for an AMD Ryzen 5. People think that they can increase frequency regardless of the number of ranks but it has a cost and as you pointed out, one core or more could well throttle back and he would not even notice the reason, so at the end of the day, O.S or/and RAM bound can cause this sort of issues and the only way to sort it out is to bound the proper RAM to the CPU in the first place, in this case that would be DDR4 2400 4 X 1 bank or 2 X 2 banks. Passed that there will be a RAM bottleneck.

Bad CPU-to-RAM bound affects shader performances, increases latency and frame time, if that's not enough to look at it as an issue I don't know what does.

DCS has got little to do with it, if your RAM bound is mediocre, blaming the game won't solve your problem, and you skipped the point where those 6% are obtained without O.Cing CPU and/or RAM, which if you haven't get it yet reduce both life-span and cost money, short like long term AND, using the CPU low latency capabilities. So at the end of the day you can be stuborn and try to blame the game for the poor performances of your system, it's your lot, personally I don't have this issue, my frame times are top noch, another point which you seems to have forgoten but complained about, again the game has little to do with it, it's not the source of system latency.

Just a little reminder: The Ryzen 5900X is generaly recognised as the most power-efficient CPU there is in the market today. It does achieve increased performances with the same Max Temps 95°C than the 3600X but with a much lower TDP, meaning less generated heat due to power draw or else, the opposite would be true and TDP would be higher, not lower. As an example a i9 9900k TDP is 95 W, 30W higher than the 5600X but 10W lower than a AMD Ryzen™ 9 5900X and has a Maximum Temperature 5°C higher than both, so it really comes to designed thermal limits and the legend of AMD processors running "hot" goes with a bang. Some AMD bashers were commonly pointing out the fact that AMD processors were running "hot", but if you compare manufacturers data you'll figure that the 5600X runs rather cool compared to some of its Intel equivalent, based on their respective TDP and raw performances. So if you have a cooling issue upgrading from a Ryzen 5 3600X to a Ryzen 5 5600X as I did, just hit pause and think: TDP being a nominal value for cooling systems, it also mean that the 5600X requier LESS cooling than the 3600X while obtaining MORE performances and I have experienced this myself first hand. From the moment I upgraded to the 5600X with the same Artic 7X cooler, I had a much more stable system and lower temperatures at full load with much higher scores while running my tests with the same settings, running the same tests. We're not talking about motherboards here, but some motherboards can generate more heat than other and this affects the CPU socket and of course, cooling and TDP. If you have this sort of issue, check your case ventilation first; there is no point into blaming the processor is you starve the fans from fresh air and your CPU runs in a hoven in the first place (as was mine before I upgraded my case), also take into account the ambiant temperature of your room, if you have 22°C, you will get more performances from your cooling system than if your room is at 30°C. A little aerodynamic here since we're into cooling, higher pressures results into an increase in airflow temperature, so don't expect your case temperature to go down if you only increase pressure inside of the case, on the other hand, if you increase both in and out airflow, your cooling will be more efficient, regardless of fan types, high pressure or high airflow. I personally chose to feed my CPU fan with a front high airflow 120mm fan while a high pressure Octua does the exhaust, which (in theory) lowers the pressure behind the Artic 7X blowing straight into it, what I tried to achieve here was a better aerodynamic for the upper part of the case and have the cleanest aiflow possible between the front and back fans. For the GTX 1080 Ti 11GB which generates quite a bit of heat, I use another high pressure Octua at the front, I know it is not ideal but it could work better than another high airflow as there is no fan behind the GPU and airflow is disturbed by the presence of the GPU anyway, there is another issue here: While a higher airflow would help a bit more the exausting heat at the back of the case which has a lot of honeycomb shaped holes, a high pressure fan minimise the risk of creating a boundary layer partially starving the GPU fan from fresh air, in short, the airflow could run over the surface of the GPU straight out of the case while not allowing the GPU fans to suck it into it and do their cooling work. Air is compressible but also viscuous, its particules tends to stick to one another and the surfaces they touch, but there are no scoop in the back-to-front airflow line of GPUs, a too strong airflow from a front fan can create such an issue. Check everything related to CPU cooling as you should, including "stealth" cabling = try to leave a clear space between front fans and CPU cooler, unobstructed by cables which will disrupt the airflow... This doesn't mean spending thousand, it means planning properly and shopping around for the best cooling solutions, which are not necessarily the mose expensive or cheapest. For after market cooling solution, quality is still a most, I know for a fact that out of the box, some coolers can have an uneven base and this reduce the size of the surface patch and creates hot spots, increasing the CPU running temperature, so look at your cooler quality because at the end of the day, this is business and manufacturers will sell you woden chariots for Rolls Royces if you're not careful, this includes videos from Youtubers BTW, you need to keep a critical mind. So even if TDP is not computed around ther actual CPU power draw, it sill is totally related to it, power generates heat, so the lower the TDP, the less power the CPU is likely to use, if your CPU TDP is 60W higher than that of the 5600X as is the case for the i7-10700K, don't even start arguing that it doesn't use more power because it is the only source of heat in the case of your CPU. Last but not least, maintain your filters and case, keep them clean.

Reality: Ryzen 5 5600X runs 5°C cooler than the Intel with a TDP 60W lower and at the SAME Maximum temperature has 30W lower TDP than the Ryzen 5 3600X: And in case you haven't noticed, the Maximum Temperature is that where the CPU will throttle back, the Ryzen is conceived to achieve its performances at 5°C lower than the Intel and 60W lower TDP, which make your comment a double false. READ yourself AGAIN: 1) 5600X doesn't " run super hot". 2) Certainly NOT "due to voltage AMD allowed them to run out of the box". Vaccate to the knitting forum you'll make a better impression.

For ignorants and reality deniers, NO. Reality: Ryzen 5 5600X runs 5°C cooler than the Intel with a TDP 60W lower and at the SAME Maximum temperature has 30W lower TDP than the Ryzen 5 3600X: And in case you haven't noticed, the Maximum Temperature is that where the CPU will throttle back, the Ryzen is conceived to achieve its performances at 5°C lower than the Intel and 60W lower TDP, which make your comment a double false. READ yourself AGAIN:

For those interested, I upgraded my case precisely for better cooling, I reached the maximum cooling capabilities of the old one which dated from Pentium III and couldn'y cope with generated heat as early as I fitted a Ryzen 5 3600 and the EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB in it, you could have cooked an egg on top of the case. The last item that I purchased was the Artic Freezer 7X but because I wanted to have some headroom in term of cooling for future upgrade with the 5600X in view, so I also added two additional Noctua NF F12 fans to bring fresh air and help exhaust of hot air, one is feeding the GPU, the CPU being feed with the case's stock 120 mm fans with the CPU fan aligned to it and to the second Noctua NF F12 behind it. Again, at full load with 3D Mark Pro 4K Gaming, 3840 x 2160 and 2 X MSAA and boosted with Ryzen Master, pick temperature never exceeded 73°C, according to my upgrade records, it's more than 5°C cooler than with the stock Ryzen cooler with Ryzen 5 3600X, 5°C higher (78°C) being the temperature of my system with the 3600X and the same aftermarket Artic. I added the links to complete the list of the upgrade one day later. https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/246922-upgrade-complete-happy-player/?tab=comments#comment-247831 So you have issues with cooling your CPU? Believe it or not it starts with the ambiant temperature of the room where you PC is running, then case cooling, it needs fresh air in and venting hot air as well, this way you'll have a much better environment for your PCU and GPU to work, the better the case cooling the more efficient CPU and GPU cooling can be. >>> Blah.. If you can't read Maximum temperature it's your lot, but here is your personal score: YOUR QUOTE: super hot = 5°C cooler Maximum temperature than an i5-10600K. due to the voltage = TDP: 30W lower than the Ryzen 5 3600X and 60W lower than Intel i5-10600K. No relation here whatsoever with Ryzen 5 5600X performances alegedly due to the voltage, in FACT it is the opposite, it beats both the 3600X and i5-10600K in terms of performances for TDP and Maximum temperature. Reality: Ryzen 5 5600X runs 5°C cooler than the Intel with a TDP 60W lower and at the SAME Maximum temperature has 30W lower TDP than the Ryzen 5 3600X: In BOTH case, you are WRONG.

I'm not "misinterpreting" what YOU wrote, it's Crystal CLEAR. So stop trying to imply that you were right when FACTS proves you wrong. YOUR QUOTE: super hot = 5°C cooler Maximum temperature than an i5-10600K. due to the voltage = TDP: 30W lower than the Ryzen 5 3600X and 60W lower than Intel i5-10600K. No relation here whatsoever with Ryzen 5 5600X performances alegedly due to the voltage, in FACT it is the opposite, it beats both the 3600X and i5-10600K in terms of performances for TDP and Maximum temperature. Reality: Ryzen 5 5600X runs 5°C cooler than the Intel with a TDP 60W lower and at the SAME Maximum temperature has 30W lower TDP than the Ryzen 5 3600X: In BOTH case, you are WRONG.

Yeah keep away, you wrote WHAT.EVER and refuse to aknoledge FACTS. YOU brough voltage into the equation to try to make up that the Ryzen 5 5600X was running "super hot" because of the voltage = FALSE. In FACT; it is strictly identical to the Ryzen 5 3600X when it comes to Max Temps at 95°C but achieve this at 30W lower TDP, and in BOTH case this is inferior to the Intel i5-10600K, 65W vs 95 W and 95 °C vs 100 °C, visibly you got your wires crossed there and I can't help it, it's YOUR QUOTE. So you were wrong and can throw tantrums and business cards all you want FACTS and DATAS from both AMD and INTEL proves you WRONG, on the other hand, with proper cooling, it can easily run at full boost and never go above 75°C, even with a stock cooler it will remain within its thermal limits, I should know because I tested it with both coolers. End of debate. Intel® Core™ i5-10600K Processor AMD Ryzen™ 5 5600X AMD Ryzen™ 5 3600X

You visiblt have no idea what you write. YOU brought volage up to try to explain that this CPU was running HOT. FALSE in BOTH case demonstrated by both AMD and Intel, you can try to twist yourself to knots, you wrote B.S and I corrected it with datas from both manufacturers. Now cut it you're begining to pull the hell out of me not being able to admit your were wrong.

What you were saying and what I corrected was: That's demonstratively false. First it is limited to 65W, second it runs 5°C cooler than the Intel of the same class, not only you can run it at full boost with a stock cooler without it reaching the shut down limit but it will do so using a LOT less power than the Intel i5-10600K which TDP is 125W. So if people have a temperature issue with it, again it is a cooling issue, not due to the CPU voltage being too high as you alleged, I took a good care of my cooling, first with the case, second with a simple Freezer 7 X and at full boost running a 4K test with 3D Mark Pro 4K Gaming, 3840 x 2160 and 2 X MSAA, pick temperature is 73°C. Running DCS doesn't change this, cooling is efficient so it works within its designed parametrers.

Sure you can downvolt a Ryzen, but the 5600X has a TDP lower than its Intel equivalent and runs cooler as well, so if people have a temperature issue with it, it is a cooling issue, not related to your explaination: In fact in the case of this particular CPU it is the opposite. The thermal design power (TDP), sometimes called thermal design point, is the maximum amount of heat generated by a computer chip or component (often a CPU, GPU or system on a chip) that the cooling system in a computer is designed to dissipate under any workload. Ryzen 5 5600X: Default TDP / TDP 65W. https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-5-5600x

Just for your info: Ryzen 5 5600X TDP is way lower than that of an Intel i5-10600K at its default setting of 65W, more to the point it has a lower maximum temperature, 95°C vs 100 °C. People who manage to have them running above 75°C have a cooling problem, not a CPU problem caused by voltage.

OK. So, I know that it will sound like a burden to you, but here are the reasons for upgrading your RAM and use the RAM kit I recommanded (or another Cl 14 4 X 1 rank 3200MHz kit). 1) Lower latency: A Cl14 kit witll take full advantage of the Ryzen CPU architecture, it is optimized for low latency. 2) Rank interleaving: A 4 X 1 rank kit will allow the controller a lot more flexibility and use all ranks to the best of its capabilities. 3) No RAM-to-CPU bootleneck from iddle to full load. Since the Cl 14 4 X 1 rank 3200 MHz is fully within the CPU recommanded RAM specs, you won't experience any issue of your CPU throttling back under load, I personally saw a gain of 6.04% at 4K using 3D Mark Pro 4K Gaming, 3840 x 2160 and 2 X MSAA. Graphic scores also improved with this RAM kit, which is logical since the CPU-to-GPU bus wasn't limited by the CPU controller anymore. You might not want to spend an extra £80 for this sort of result but think about the 2.76% you can expect to gain with full water cooled CPU overclocking, running at 4.8 GHz, thus not under AMD guaranty especially when you know that their CPU RAM limit under guaranty is precisely 3200 MHz, you might find a better RAM bound more attractive. I obtained more than TWICE this O.Ced CPU performance without splashing any money on water cooling and loosing manufacturer guaranty, because all I use is Ryzen Master boost but NO O.C, on ther other hand, the G.Skill kit cost <> £80 more than the Crucial kit it replaced. Oh yeah, I forgot, the maximum temperature my CPU reached during this test was 73 °C.

As I specified previously, the number of ranks per sticks can cause the CPU to throttle back, OK, Cl16 is not the best but it is within the controller range, but if your RAM sticks have more than 1 rank each, since you have more of them you're already out of the controller limits and it will throttle down under load. I'm surprised that your motherboard doesn't support 3200MHz. one of the reasons (you need to check your motherboard manufaturer specs) can be the quality of the RAM chips, which doesn't allow for tighter settings, reason why top AMD users like to use B-Die RAM, the quality of the material used to make their chips provide more stability and control over frequencies and settings you can use. It is not a bout faster RAM but lower latency, which the Ryzen 5600X is optimized for, since you chosed to fit 4 X sticks, you can hit one or more of the issues I quoted, starting with number of ranks, here is what AMD support said about it... I wrote to them before picking my RAM kit and it is obvious that not only they limit this CPU to 3200MHz because of the controller limit in terms of ranks, but if you don't take this into account and add twice this number (4 X 2 instead of 4 X 1), notr only you end up loosing the advantage of bank interleaving but you also lower the controller ability to cope with the number of ranks and lose the main quality of this CPU which is its ability to use lower latency, which you increase anyway when your CPU throttle back. The result is increase latency under load but also about a loss of 5/6% + interms of CPU performances, you whole system is working out of its specifications and nowhere near to where it could be had you bounded a RAM kit more suited to the 5600X. I could have made the same mistake by adding two RAM sticks to those I had previously, Cl16/2 ranks but I didn't simply because I wanted to optimize my ststem within the specifications of AMD and knew about the 5600X main qualities, which is what I decided to improve with a better RAM bound. The other issue is that only adding another 2 RAM sticks can lead to more problems as manufacturers can use different chips from a kit to another even if the RAM are seemingly identical, so best buying a 4 X sticks kit because otherwise you are at risks of not being able to use your new RAM and P.C at all. Here is what G.Skill said about it as reply to my request for information when I couldn't find a 4 X sticks kit. So since I don't know what motherboard you're susing I only can tell you those things as thumbrules but can't offer an advise for a solution, in passing, your O.S settings and background use can also be a source of increase latency...

Check the contact patch of the cooler base as well, if it is not flat there can be hot spots created and I know that some after market coolers have such deffects from factory. If you're looking for a very good and cheap one you couldn't go wrong with this one... Freezer 7 X It has the advantage of its airflow going from front to back and coupled with good front and back fans, it works wonder. With the MSI Afterburner and Ryzen Master at full boost, I never get to this temperature, more likely 10°C lower in average, but I also took very good care of my case cooling, I got two low pressure and two high-flow fans to get fresh air in and hot air out, one of the the two low pressure is directly aligned to the CPU cooler fan out ward and one high flow is feeding it with cool air.

The 5600X is the coolest of the new Ryzen generation, so your cooling is failing you here. Make sure that your box is venting the hot air properly, because even the stock cooler wouldn't let this CPU run that hot.

Just as well because I don't believe that they bring Windows 11 for better performances or quality, they simply are going one step up to what Windows 10 already is, a way to gather user data and control virtually everything you do if you don't castrate it one way of another. Just checked on Automatic Updates and Medical Service just after login-in, despite being disabled and stopped before I loged out, both service were running again. When you get updates not only the quality of the drivers ranges from average to mediocre, but on top of this, all your personal settings for sharing (or not) your data can be reset. When you know that those apps store your phone book, internet use history and contact and that all of this CAN be sent to Microsoft without your consent after an update because your settings are reset, you'll understand why I'll stick to Windows 10 until some guys find some way to shut down all those Win 11 intrusive apps and settings. Perhaps you think you can trust Microsoft because they make this O.S but when you know that they were hacked and lost more than 60.000 user's data on Marsh 2021, after another attack on Jan 2020 where more than 250 million customer service and support records were lost to hackers, you might want to reconsider this blind trust on them. In short, even if they alegedly got rid of Bill Gates, it doesn't make them safe or trustworthy. Keep control of your O.S. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-12/hackers-rushed-in-as-microsoft-raced-to-avert-mass-cyber-attack https://www.silicon.co.uk/cloud/cloud-management/microsoft-breach-250-million-records-331058