mbits

I'm not that good for starters (get that out of the way ) but the previous patch att hold was a revelation for me. It was wonderful at making me look like I knew what I was doing. I wonder if the new one is more realistic or not but I find it useless frankly. Unless you want to very carefully demonstrate a hands off hover while you eat lunch. The previous iteration was holding me stable "enough" but letting me move around a bit which allowed me to land on raised platforms etc. The new one pretends its going to do that then disengages just before I crash and burn.

A few people have mentioned rocking or pendulum. I've just had a go and found that at high speed (haven't tried slower) pitching down quite quickly to lose alt causes the green scas to do some crazy left and right. I don't know what comes first. If it's cause or reaction but it lines up with the nasty rolls.

I've been experimenting with gently making the change then pressing force trim. If I do it quick its all bets off.. The main thing for me is that it disengages too easily compared to the previous patch, when I think it was trying to do less for you but was very handy for some stability and brief hands off. From what I understand you should be able to use att hold but it knows to let you adjust then settle again without it giving up.

@Toni CarreraIve never used stable. I was fine just one open beta version ago. As I assume you were based on your original post. @NiehorstI don't think anyone here is saying it should be easy or that our controllers are ideal I'm not expecting an open beta not to change either. This is simply about us discussing what we've found and trying to figure out what's made the latest patch so different in behaviour from the one before (2.7.14) for some. It's significant enough for me that I can't really use the new one. Maybe its an intentional and accurate change I don't know. Feels just much less stable and more difficult than it was. I might go back and try the new version again sometime but I might just wait for the one after and see how that is, as ofcourse its all a WIP.

BradMick is a real pilot as far as I know and I believe he said it's not a long tone IRL. They do have to confirm the warnings though and act on them. I can't fly the latest patch and enjoy it. I've gone back to the previous for a while as it was way easier. I felt like I was beta testing without any info to work off other than that they're developing the att hold etc. p.s. I was getting the long tone (or my replacement for it) even without any sas saturation from what could tell. Maybe that long tone has been added for more than just sas saturation (which itself seems to be happening a LOT).

Quick update: I had no idea you could revert to a previous version. That's great thanks! Means I can now a. confirm that attitude hold was much better for me in 2.7.12 and b. just enjoy some missions again when I dont want to test the latest patch. It's exactly what I thought. Attitude hold used to just help stabilise you but not get you down to perfect 0 speed hovers. It stays engaged which is safer, even if it doesnt get you into a total hover if does enough to make it useful and not dangerous. The latest patch instability in general flying is probably more concerning but I haven't tested it enough but agree with most of whats been said here.

I don't know if its intentional/realistic or not but it isn't clear what's changed or to what extent based on the the short notes open beta testers have available. I just had another go and it's like I'm in my first hour in the thing after having it since release day. It would be pointless me trying missions right now. Back to flight school it is. The att hold really feels unusable unless all you wanted from it was to show in the right conditions you can go hands free in a nice perfect hover which almost looks like active pause. I find now its a liability as it can disengage on you much easier than previously. Maybe thats all its for and I was using it wrong in its more lenient config before. The previous patch had me taking advantage of att hold hovering good enough to pop up and attack from range with a few quick hands free moments and then landing on ships easily which I couldn't do at all before. This is two separate things I guess. att hold not staying on as much as it did and also just general flying stability issues (maybe scas related). The pendulum rocking some have mentioned sounds like a good way to describe the flight confidence issue. I used to practice whizzing around above a runway like a race track and do tight comfortable turns. I do that now and it feels like I'm asking for it to spiral into the ground. I think I'm sadly going to have to just stop and wait if anything improves with the next update.

@RoosterfeetThanks. I have a feeling that was already a known thing to check for. I'll give it a try but I'm not convinced that's the cause of what people are experiencing here. I notice your comments say you've had some roll issues for the last two patches, but this is specifically about flight being dramatically out of whack since the latest patch.

I put a wave file in my savedgames DCS folder \Sounds\Effects\Aircrafts\AH-64D\Cockpit\Tones\flt-ctrl.wav I had to create those directories. It might be that sound is used for more than just saturation though. Not sure. It's definitely stopped the long annoying tone.

I know its a beta so expect changes but I have to agree, before patch I had got my flying stable and reliable. Transitioning to hover etc all good. Since, I almost feel like giving up. Something changed dramatically for me, I'm hoping I figure out what. ATT HOLD is fussy now and keeps cancelling when it was more forgiving before. As I've said elsewhere I had to find out how to mod the sound as saturation is happening so much, often without any text message and for no good reason apparently. With the previous patch ATT HOLD may not have got to perfect hover but it was stabilising my hovers and landings very nicely. It used to put me into a kind of easy mode for low level, landing and hover. Now it can sometimes get a more perfect 0 speed hover but the rest of the time its a nightmare. General flying is really edgy. It's just my experience but it sounds similar to the OP. I was comfortable and progressing into confident flying in missions now I'm back trying to learn how to control the heli. Before finding this thread I had done what @BIGNEWY suggested, reselect trim options etc. I just don't know whats up but clearly something as its like I've forgotten how to fly it over night and am double checking my axis tune but they say the same as they did before. @GrEaSeLiTeNiNis almost word for word what I'm experiencing.

It's weird I had to go and find out about sound modding as I'm getting that annoying long warning tone far too often. Since the patch I'm struggling to avoid that noise. I know about long press up to sort out saturation but the difference and faff before and after patch is quite dramatic for me. I'm getting it a lot without even using att hold, and with no force trim, so it seems its a regular occurrence now no matter what.

Thanks that's enough to go off. Quite long then compared to what I'm used to. Fine but good to know as you can't save it.

The sas saturation warning seems to be happening even when you're not forced trimmed or using att hold? Is that intentional? It's not so bad now for me as I've changed it to a non headache inducing cow moo but..

Yeah trim reset is harsh. You can avoid it most of the time. I like to use it but I expect a sudden lurch.

I found learning was much better if you ignored trim completely. Then start using it when you'd be otherwise holding a straight line on the way to a waypoint along with using trim reset so you can remove confusion while you're figuring things out. Then use it a bit for getting into hovers. It's very useful and important but not ideal if you're new to flying helis (like I was/am). Eventually it all works well enough but I still like trim reset as I can't quickly feel where the cyclic is and sometimes just want to start a fresh.

I've not tested it much yet but I think I'm finding the sas saturation warning noise incredibly annoying. I get it and don't even see the text message. Check CTRL and ENTER and there's no obvious saturation there. To be honest I wish I could just turn that noise off as I was happy without it and it gives me a headache in headphones Is there a way to mute or turn it down a bit? On another note, I'm absolutely sure I was trimming to a near hover, pressing ATT HOLD and then able to hands off before this latest patch?? I think it's just got a bit better at a true hover now. As opposed to a bit of drift. Update: Turns out the sas text message just doesnt stay very long so I wasnt sure if thats what the long tone is. I've been told in discord by a real pilot that the long tone is not realistic. So I've found it and modded to be a nice cow moo for now.

Thanks. Those accents are interesting I think I'd have a comms issue with them being a Geordie myself. First campaign I've tried so that first mission mostly just looking around was great. Could anyone give me any indication of how long on average the missions are so I can plan ahead?

I'm looking to get into the spit, maybe during this sale. Am I going to have to buy Normandy AND Channel if I want a few decent campaigns? Or will I be fine with Channel only stuff like this one?

I find with my head tracking I often want to re-center it. I guess I must just be moving around in my seat and repositioning, sitting a little higher or whatever. I don't quite get how that would translate to my original boresight setup? Have I ruined my boresight alignment by not keeping the exact same seating position for the whole session? Also, how does it work for a hot start if your head tracking alignment wasn't part of the process?

It's worth saying that the content of the audio of these is not for everyone. I think you need to accept some of it might be used out of context or be a bit hard hitting. Play them at your own risk. I personally was able to take them for what they are and enjoyed the experiences without connecting it too much to reality.

Best I've seen so far. Loved all 3. Spoilt me for other missions as you'd need amazing scripting and acting to come close to the real audio forestrat used here.

Thanks. I'll be trying this again for sure. First attempt I got the convoy and the VBIED (after struggling to find it until I saw smoke and then pylons). I was told to RTB, turned around to head home north and was promptly taken out by a missile from somewhere Just when I had disabled tacview I could've used it afterwards. I'm new to all this since the Apache came out so the challenge of night and finding targets was tough but rewarding. I don't even remember getting the option to choose what targets to take. Update: just read the comment about the music making the choice. I heard talk of the VBIED, spent a while doing that, then took out the gathering south of WP4. I'm sure I'll see what I missed on a replay. All in all a busy but atmospheric, replayable and fun one.

If the channel was wrong wouldn't the "flight" comms option be greyed out?

I only discovered it working well in the last few days and use it mostly for hover when attacking from range or just looking for targets. I'm really rubbish at landings so I'm experimenting with using it then to stablise the very last bit of landing before I touch down.