Aapje

I'm also talking about FFB steering wheels. They also fell under the patents.

@LucShep If relatively cheap FFB devices could be sold under the patents, then it's impossible for the patent fees to be the sole reason for the lack of devices. At most it can then be a contributing factor. Anyway, another video that is mostly useless, but the weight comparison between the Moza and Warthog stick is interesting:

Ok, but I don't think they would have considered making one if only the Brunner had existed.

Sure, but if no one notices in real use cases, then it is a good enough design, right?

I think that you overestimate how creative and risk-taking companies are. You typically see that companies are much more likely to copy already successful competitors rather than innovate. I think that Moza was unlikely to have thought of this if you hadn't come around with the Rhino. Especially since they are Chinese, whose culture is not exactly supportive of risk-taking and thinking outside of the box.

If the overheating happens as quickly as people claim should happen, then shouldn't we get reports of the overheating protection triggering just when dogfighting with warbirds or such? Surely some DCS players who got the base did some warbird fighting?

You are just repeating rumors that make no sense and that are contradicted by actual facts. Firstly, this company makes money by licensing their patents. They earn no money if they ask too much for the licenses, and people don't make FFB products. Secondly, we know that for flight sim FFB in the past, and for racing FFB more recently, they've licenses out their patents to relatively cheap products, which means that they can't have asked for that much, or those products couldn't have been this cheap. Everything points to flight simming losing a lot of popularity until Covid and the new MSFS changed this around & there simply being very little investments into hardware. Some small companies that we all know and love kept innovation, but in a risk-averse and very evolutionary way, which makes sense, given their size and the state of the market at the time. The Rhino showed that the market was there and did a lot of the R&D, so it reduced the risks, while the grown market means that it is a good time to release something new.

I think that the rather good sales for the Rhino are what set things off.

Probably because all of us flight simmers look like this: Rather than like this: They can't handle the force. PS. Let's see if this works

Can't one of you guys who got one test it with a warbird by pulling lots of Gs and seeing long long you can keep it up without feeling the power go down?

What I want to see is a tear down of the unit. Then you can see if they cut corners with the design of the unit. Quality control is really only something that you can determine over time, by looking at how many people run into QA issues.

The benefits over the Quest 2 are more for standalone.

@Dangerzone The issue is not only attempts to get free product, but also that people may sell on their faulty products to scam others or such. I had a recall for an unsafe bicycle helmet and they also required proof that the helmet was made unusable. In that case there was no risk of scamming them, since they knew for sure that my helmet was faulty (since it was a manufacturing defect impacting all helmets). However, imagine people selling on the faulty helmet and the person buying it getting into an accident and suing the helmet maker. Destroying the product is the more economical solution when shipping the product or component back costs more than it is worth (which can be $0 when it is broken beyond economical repair).

@Mr_sukebe Reports suggest that the base does not support the more advanced Virpil functions, so you have axes working as buttons and such. VPforce fixed this for the Rhino, so Moza can to, in theory. We will have to see whether they will do so. And given how high the base is of itself, with effectively a decent extension already built in, it seems that to get the equivalent of a 200 mm extension for a non-FFB base, you need less of an extension. That also will dampen the strength less.

He has some issues with the calibration:

Both bases are the same with regard to VKB support. They have a Thrustmaster connector and require the VPForce VKB adapter to work with a VKB grip. Then a cable comes out of the adapter that goes directly to the black box, which in turn plugs into a separate USB port. And just like Max, I'm wonder why you can't simply convert the grip back to a Thrustmaster connector? Then you no longer need adapters and you should be able to just undo the conversion if you kept the original parts.

@MAXsenna The VKB adapter doesn't go through the base, but directly to the BlackBox, so it will work with no support required on the part of Moza. Both Moza and the Rhino use the Thrustmaster connector, so the VPForce VKB adapter will work on both.

15th gen is not going to happen, since Intel changed their naming scheme. It's going to be the Core 200 series. They are rumored to come in a month. The new X3D-CPUs are rumored to come at CES, so January 7th or so. The current state of the market is that the 7800X3D seems to be in short supply and the prices are now very inflated in some places and slightly inflated in others. Everyone is jumping on them since the new series was so disappointing. I would personally suggest waiting until CES both to let the market settle down again, and so we know where we stand with the Core 200 and new X3D-CPUs. But it's not a bad idea to quickly get a 7800X3D if you are somewhere where the prices and availability is still decent, as it is unlikely that the new Intel and AMD CPUs will be a good deal in the short term, so it can easily take until mid-2025 for the new X3D-CPUs to become a good deal. Of course, given how limited the gain is probably going to be, as @gonvise noted, it may also be smarter to spend that money on a video card or just wait a bit longer before upgrading. @ebabil What GPU do you have?

VKB grips work with the VPForce adapter: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSflUrHfM9AB0f-0WGyhOLxvXQNMr7E8TBDSYYJUBQ8kqaDC7g/viewform And you can use any extension that works for Thrustmaster, with the caveat that you already have a pretty big extension built in. I've seen people use smaller/custom extensions.

Virpil grips do work, but apparently not (yet?) with full functionality. VKB can also be used with the adapter from VPForce.

No, untrained test subjects have been subjected to 20g for less than 10 seconds and 10g for up to a minute with no observed long or short term harm. Of course, there have been no scientific tests to death, but Stapp survived a 46 g peak test run.

Moza also sells the Z-Axis module, which functions as an extension as well: https://mozaracing.com/product/moza-z-axis-module I would personally suggest going for FFB, but also to wait at least a few months to see what the market is like then, and how people are getting on with the Moza. And you need to keep in mind that the Moza is harder to mount.

The Moza is quite big too, hard to tell how this one compares.

I hope that you guys won't feel bad now that Winwing has announced their price and force (see the Cyber Taurus topic).