Hueyman

Ok Krebs Glad you finally found the real problem, as it seems it was a bit more complicated than what it looked to me to the first sights Thank you very much, hope all will be addressed

GREAT ! That is what I dreamed to hear all day long ;-) And thanks for the examples PilotMi8

Don't know what your measurements memories tell you but they are obviously false. Even very highly skilled scientific have to judge their results sometimes and compare the theories to the actual facts. The theory shows there that, with your numbers, you are 100% true The facts ( images, several diagrams from OFFICIAL manual etc etc ) actually show you are 0% true. Ok, mail sent to the Textron company ... ( I don't know that they will provide better than the TM 55-1520-210-10 manual ... ) No, I never give up, especially when each time I glance at this great virtual Huey, that thing hurt my eyes. Wait and see guys ;-) It is like a political debate where everyone is persuaded he is absolutely in the right statements ... But guys, when you arrive against the wall of facts, actual facts, how can you continue trying to invent some way of demonstration to demonstrate unreal things ... Starting to become kinda pathetic The Huey cabin floor is canted 5.45° backward RIGHT The Huey main rotor mast is 5° forward in respect of cabin floor line RIGHT The BST Huey cabin floor is 5.45° backward RIGHT The BST Huey main rotor mast is 5° forward i.r of cabin floor line WRONG This is where is the problem, the BST Huey rotor mast is perpendicular to the floor line, while it should be +5° offset from it... this is why the -0.45° final mast orientation in respect of the ground gave me the first impressions of it being absolutely straight Isn't this enough for you ?

I don't understand what you are trying to prove ... these 5° are from the floor line and we don't care at all at ground being leveled or not ... That will end I will have to directly give a call to our French Bell importer so they send some material that will show you once for all you are wrong Sorry

Thanks Nate " In Real Life " ? :smartass:

Yeah Sharpe I agree with you, I contact them now. And I think the real " engineering " proof is the just above " Helicopter Station Diagram "

:doh::doh::doh: THANKS GUYS :doh::doh::doh: I really understand the fact that some improvements are in trop priority before others ( like this one is not top priority ), though they HAVE TO work hard to deliver the best product they can, or I don't think anyone will pay anymore for their next product's Beta ... And I wasn't totally right too, I knew inside of me that it has some degrees forward, but as I didn't found any solid material to prove it, and in order not to shock other pessimist guys too much ( ... lol ), I just said it was straight... Now, Belsimtek, please make this +5° forward mod for final ... Thanks, the matter is closed... hopefully solved soon :pilotfly:

The point of this thread is determining if yes or no the mast is straight. If you don't want to investigate with us, then you can press the return button to choose another thread that may interest you. I have much respect for all of you guys, really, but you complain for stuff like ( quoted for some new feature asking threads ) : " Some instruments should oszillate. The Airspeed indicator oszillates approx. +/- 2Knots at 90 KIAS, the torque indicator increases oszillation with increasing torque, approx. +/-1 psi at 50 psi. " " Add a rotor brake " " Winch ability " etc etc ... Before adding things, wouldn't the base empty model better be correct ? So please stop giving your advices about if yes or not this correction is requested. It is DCS, it is not HAWX or ArmA, we pay for the excellence and it is normal we request it.

Because you edited your post afterward. That is correct with the Mi-8, not the Huey. And as you may know, each airframe got a load and CG sheet to fill in before everyflight. I don't know the CG min and max limits of the Mi-8, but it is somewhere around the rotor mast of course. If you add weight on the CG, it will make the ship heavier ON it's CG, and so lowering down equally on front and aft of the ship ( I mean, no differences in pitch attitude ) Also, what I consider neutral is the mechanic neutral, not the " in flight one ". For example, if the PoH says the cyclic travel is 20° in each directions, the neutral is the 0° position. Hope this answers this time. And thanks for the picts, numbers are always good to see ;-) I must add you choose a non orthographic pict ( mm.. this is obvious ), and shot so close to the Huey that the perspective effect makes it hard to takes measure from. These are correct shots to measure from, and I see a perfect 90° straight angle. Aircraft manufacturer don't have to worry their factories with 0.3° differences in SUCH things ( yeah, some things like the blade pitch adjustment etc have much lower tolerances )

It is not like if it was a new system to code or new part to model and texture.. it is existing things that needs a bit of relocation... It seems their rotor model is really interactive with the physics, but at some point, there is obviously a relationship between the 3D model we see and what is actually calculated for flight dynamics... and this 3D " display " should be easy to edit isn't it ? What can you see EB-1 ,is it out of your sight or is it feasible ? Anyway, we are getting off topic, the question was, is it true or false that the mast isn't straight on this one, compared to the real one ...

It is a very interesting question, glad you asked it. You know, many things, got a kind of icon to make them very recognizable upon many other things... Huey got its sound, is rotor system , on ground, being tied down backward ( like most of Bell's teetering rotor system helis ) DCS is offers an accurate simulation experience, and this is part of the immersion. So, why people want to get rid of that derivated exhausts, like almost Huey all have ? because in their mind, the image they have of the Huey is the oen without that exhausts aiming rotor downwash, that's all. Same for people who wants better avionics, realistic starter button, throttle cut-off/idle release simulation... because for them, it is a big part of the immersion... whereas the ship will still fly the same finally. And for me, this is stuff relating to rotor mechanic, that's it, every one her/his " fetish " part, mine is the rotors/blade/propellers being done accurately.

Because the undercarriage are in aluminum tube construction, and is very flexible ( this ensuring the dampening ). It is easily understandable that higher skids have not the same mass repartition that lower, sturdier and more rigid ones. This could induce a slight change in the fuselage ( and so, rotor mast orientation, compared to the absolute horizontal ) pitch attitude on ground... And on ground, high or low skids, the rotor mast is straight, not backward nor forward, but straight Hope I replied to your question ;-)

Okay YoYo, sorry for having changing the thread orientation, now, the discussion continues here : http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1850952#post1850952 I'm all available to get that sorted out with you guy Thanks

Because I don't want to still pollute the other thread, I created a dedicated one here It seems I'm the only one ( with Eagle Eye ) who affirm that the actual DCS Belsimtek UH-1 rotormast is pointing backward as it shouldn't... It is not like if I was saying that the skids are too high for a UH-1H helicopter ( and they are ) etc etc, as a model cannot be perfect and there are things that are more important than others ... and the rotormast not being straight vertical induce the whole rotor system to be canted backward, at neutral cyclic input, which is not accurate at all. I will just copy my post from the other thread, so anyone of you will be able to build her/his opinion : " Ok, will try to answer each posts No, I am not yet, but will attempt army heli pilot selection soon, already PPL(A) and learning on helicopters for years, have already two logged hours on R44 and Bell 47. I obviously see that Mil is taxiing. You can spend time to find any pictures on the web etc, of the heli shut down, and you will notice the main mast has some forward degrees orientation, this is how helicopter are built in real world, that's all This is absolutely inaccurate, as the Huey rotorhead is a semi-rigid see/saw type, meaning there is a bearing in the hub that allow the whole hub/spindle shafts/blade grips assembly to freely rotate around that bearing, from around +10°/-10°!... this also explaining the possibility of mast bumping. As you may see, all these Hueys are grounded, the rotor is put in almost it's rearmost position for the ground crew can " lock " the rotor ( tie the blade down ) to avoid them to flap with wind and such and so damage the mast ( like a " light " mast bumping ). Some operators also tie them in the forward position, it is just a matter of choice : Ok so this has nothing to do, the rotor mast could be tilted 5° backward and you also could be able to place the rotor in that forward position. It isn't written in the manual, just because the main mast got an absolute Zero vertical orientation, perfectly perpendicular to the Helicopter 0° pitch attitude. You still disagree ? Okay, here is a picture I myself took in a 205 here in south France, flying for the Pompiers du Var ... If you can't see that the rotor mast isn't 90° to the helicopter lines ( based on the skids ), well, then there is a problem. And no, it is not because the high skids configuration, they are exactly the same orientation as the low skid ones. Now, look how things are in actual DCS model : And even in the 3-view of their model, it not hidden at all that main mast is some degrees backward, and so cyclic at neutral produce a small back rotor disc tilting... I have hard times understanding while all of you nice guys don't want to accept the real mast isn't straight ! I'm the first to say Belsimtek module is really a masterpiece of computer engineering, modeling, coding and texturing ! But saying all is perfect because you are so happy to be able to make a hover on their hard heli isn't a reason for saying it is perfect, this is UN-professional behavior and this sim ( DCS ) should considered as a professional tool now, not a Level D sim but much more than FSX games etc, the degree of realism in flight dynamics helped me alot when I got my hands on a real machine, as well as X-Plane advanced flight dynamics. We paid 50 USD for the Beta, I think I am in the right to ask that to be FIXED for final, as well as you guys ask for the starter button and shutdown procedures to be done correctly, others ask for Radar alt, more weapon choice, Slick versions etc etc ... Here, I'm criticizing a graphical thing, that shouldn't be hard to change for the final version, but I just don't understand why you still saying this is UN-true as I brought you all the proofs possible OKAY , now I consider the matter closed regarding the Huey, if they don't want to correct that flaw, this is their problem but don't tell me please that what I'm saying is false. While I strongly hope they will fix that problem for final, as for a paid Beta, they should be listening a lot the customer feedback.. I just made the post to ask them not to do the same error in their upcoming M-8... no helicopters have their rotor discs canted backward just around neutral cyclic... And now, this is how the Mi-8 rotor disc should look on ground, perfectly neutral ( rotor disc parallel to ground, not backward nor forward ) And in a slight forward cyclic input for taxiing Thanks for having reading me, Hueyman " So, I ask you guys what do you think about that. Don't answer " no, this is nitpicking, the Huey sim is fabulous, it flies very well, you won't find anything better etc etc " as this is not the question I ( and all of us here ) paid for a 50 USD Beta, it is absolutely NORMAL we ask for more improvements in the final version, and this one is obviously one of them to bring. It may not be important for you guys, who just discovered that helicopter more or less and that it is just another great heli module ... But for me and some guys here, the Huey is a true religion, and such big inaccuracy can't stay there for the final product. I won't spend my time reporting every inaccuracies, like the rotorhead mechanism animation being totally fantasist ( the swashplate will never move the whole rotorhead assembly as it does now, not in a real Huey, nor any helicopter, only the light Gyrocopter does that ), seeing the push rods bending at their ball ends, instead of a correct mechanical rotation around the sphere like all rods, the max main blade angle pitch being way too coarse, blade chord being too large etc etc ( well, reporting now just for example, would not create a post for fixing the rotorhead animation for example ) BUT this one regarding the rotor mast should be fixed... Once again, this is not a freeware product, and they accepted to let people spend money for an unfinished product, which is a great thing I think as long as they continue supporting it as much as they can until final ... instead of that, they started ( well, I think they started it much earlier we think ) and working hard on the Mi-8... What do you think simmers/pilots ? Am I right or wrong ? Part of the answer is there, and probably the best proof you can have : And But I have to add here, the total thrust vector is not pointing forward at all... while the rotor disc is a tiny bit ( but much less than it is now ! ) Why ? because if the little residual thrust of the T-53 exhaust... Actually, that vector is obviously absolutely straight vertical in a perfect hover... while everything is compensating : lift, torque, side tail rotor thrust ( and induced roll moment, as the tail rotor is not on the roll axis but offset of the tail fin height ), turbine residual thrust etc etc ...

Thanks, at least someone unbiased and with common sense ! It is so obvious I don't understand Falcon is stuck in his blind opinion ... And I won't write all differences there is on the model as this would be pointless, and also, blueprints stay blueprints and are never 100% accurate ( I know what I'm talking about ). For sure there were several Huey model, but none of them got their rotor mast backward like this BELSIMTEK, please correct that once for all. But it really bothers me as all I said if off-topic, which is originally about the Mi-8... I just asked for this not to happen with their new helo, and people rushed against me, this is why I had to make this long post ... Now with EagleEye's pict, it is even more obvious. So please stop to say that the Huey model good regarding that particular point ( rotor mast ) as it is not ... It is like if A-10 wing dihedral wasn't spot on... everyone would have screamed !

Good boy ;-)

THAT is correct ! Will we see this in the final Huey too ?

Ok, will try to answer each posts No, I am not yet, but will attempt army heli pilot selection soon, already PPL(A) and learning on helicopters for years, have already two logged hours on R44 and Bell 47. I obviously see that Mil is taxiing. You can spend time to find any pictures on the web etc, of the plane shut down, and you will notice the main mast has some forward degrees orientation, this is how helicopter are built in real world, that's all This is absolutely inaccurate, as the Huey rotorhead is a semi-rigid see/saw type, meaning there is a bearing in the hub that allow the whole hub/spindle shafts/blade grips assembly to freely rotate around that bearing, from around +10°/-10°!... this also explaining the possibility of mast bumping. As you may see, all these Hueys are grounded, the rotor is put in almost it's rearmost position for the ground crew can " lock " the rotor ( tie the blade down ) to avoid them to flap with wind and such and so damage the mast ( like a " light " mast bumping ). Some operators also tie them in the forward position, it is just a matter of choice : Ok so this has nothing to do, the rotor mast could be tilted 5° backward and you also could be able to place the rotor in that forward position. It isn't written in the manual, just because the main mast got an absolute Zero vertical orientation, perfectly perpendicular to the Helicopter 0° pitch attitude. You still disagree ? Okay, here is a picture I myself took in a 205 here in south France, flying for the Pompiers du Var ... If you can't see that the rotor mast isn't 90° to the helicopter lines ( based on the skids ), well, then there is a problem. And no, it is not because the high skids configuration, they are exactly the same orientation as the low skid ones. Now, look how things are in actual DCS model : And even in the 3-view of their model, it not hidden at all that main mast is some degrees backward, and so cyclic at neutral produce a small back rotor disc tilting... I have hard times understanding while all of you nice guys don't want to accept the real mast isn't straight ! I'm the first to say Belsimtek module is really a masterpiece of computer engineering, modeling, coding and texturing ! But saying all is perfect because you are so happy to be able to make a hover on their hard heli isn't a reason for saying it is perfect, this is UN-professional behavior and this sim ( DCS ) should considered as a professional tool now, not a Level D sim but much more than FSX games etc, the degree of realism in flight dynamics helped me alot when I got my hands on a real machine, as well as X-Plane advanced flight dynamics. We paid 50 USD for the Beta, I think I am in the right to ask that to be FIXED for final, as well as you guys ask for the starter button and shutdown procedures to be done correctly, others ask for Radar alt, more weapon choice, Slick versions etc etc ... Here, I'm criticizing a graphical thing, that shouldn't be hard to change for the final version, but I just don't understand why you still saying this is UN-true as I brought you all the proofs possible OKAY , now I consider the matter closed regarding the Huey, if they don't want to correct that flaw, this is their problem but don't tell me please that what I'm saying is false. While I strongly hope they will fix that problem for final, as for a paid Beta, they should be listening a lot the customer feedback.. I just made the post to ask them not to do the same error in their upcoming M-8... no helicopters have their rotor discs canted backward just around neutral cyclic... And now, this is how the Mi-8 rotor disc should look on ground, perfectly neutral ( rotor disc parallel to ground, not backward nor forward ) And in a slight forward cyclic input for taxiing Thanks for having reading me, Hueyman

And please DCS, for god sakes ! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/IAF_Mi-8.JPEG Notice the rotor disc, at neutral cyclic input is canted forward a little bit !!! Please don't make the same mistake like the Huey, where it is ridiculously canted backward instead of forward... No helicopters on earth have their rotor canted backward like this, at worst it is straight, but never back ... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/SA_330_Puma_helicopters_after_completing_a_mission_during_Operation_Desert_Shield.JPEG http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/icholakov/icholakov1008/icholakov100800030/7504290-us-navy-helicopter-stopever-on-the-ground.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_w1Te9kELSl8/ScQPtWIfidI/AAAAAAAACnM/R8_3njKL84A/s400/S-92.jpg This to ensure enough clearance with tail rotor and tail boom... and offer a not too " nose down " attitude while in cruise flight And I still keep hopes for the final Huey version that you move the rotor mast some degrees forward ( actually, it is straight vertical in real life, not backward... and no, it is not due to the skids dampening on ground ... ) Thanks !

Lol you are asking for a N... and worst a Y model !! That is two really new machines, especially the Y not much to do with our H model ...

Thanks guys you saves me :-) Happy flights

In A:\Program Files\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Uh-1H\Input\UH-1H ? Yes did it at first, no success ...

Hello folks I am really sorry to post this here but it is really urgent, and much less people are watching the bug section. I installed the module yesterday on my new machine, it worked like a charm for one day, and today, when I wanted to properly assign all my buttons etc, I lost the main axis for flight controls in UH-1 real mode, while they are still there in game mode. This made this module useless now ... Any tips gentlemens ? Thanks, Hueyman

Hello, same problem here, please help The thing worked like a charm since this morning, where all my axis in real mode disappeared .. only had the game mode... Uninstalled all modules and DCS ( a pain in the back ... ) and still the same thing, any ideas ? I'm grounded for now ;-( Thanks

I will join as soon as I got my new PC ( in a couple of days ), and I finally can try this module I waited for years ... ( even before it was anounced ) The challenge is I'll have to learn to fly it in a minimum time... honestly, I don't think it will be hard regarding my experience with X-Plane very realistic rotary wing flight model. See ya soon guys, thanks for creating this