Hueyman

The main ships of the ETO were -F, the -G came a bit later ( too late ? ) on the war. Yeah that would require a lot of work, but no more than a F-18,F-14 or MiG-21, for sure. Flight dynamics were straight forward, not a full fly by wire logic would need to be developed like the Su-27 supersonic and subsonic headache PFM experimentation to come to that point. Only stick to historical values of control surfaces dimensions, travel course and fine tune to real world datas such turn rates, behaviors on each axis, accuracy of fuel and balance sheets, different perfs curves according to Manifold Press. RPM, SFC, Alt. Density & Press. etc... Basic development work on any aircraft, no more, no less. The engine management side would be nice to handle... Carefully monitoring MP, RPM, oil & cyl. temps, intercoolers and cowl flaps position, waste gates, superchargers etc... Only smart mechanical achievements It's always the same "problematic" here, if it would sell, it will probably be done. Obviously, it's not a bunch of " yes, I want it cause I think it would be good " that may ignite things in the good way... Without a significant number of potential buyers, devs wont even take a look or think about the idea. Put a poll with 1500 members positive out of 2000-2200 total and they might spend a little time studying the feasibility and commercial success of such module. That kind of poll : http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116871 We were told several times that DCS modules were chosen according to Army contracts... true or false ? I dunno but that seems strange USAF require a P-51D or BF109 hardcore sim... Anyway, now that 3rd parties are well into the gears, it's not foolish to keep hope that someone will finally catch up and start a B-17 Flying Fortress DCS module. For those who have skills, motivation, and time, it could be a very interesting and rich experience, traveling 'round Europe to gather as much infos as possible then going to USA, recording engine sounds, talk with 90+ YO mechanics, pilots and crew members to really understand what it was like to fly these Viermots. With a little team of 2-4 guys, it could take a rough two years and reach an incredible high standard level, same as the Mustang, Messerschmidt and Focke Wulf... incoming P-47 and Spit, I'm confident, are going to be a blast as well ! Now we need Heavies, the skies wasn't always filled with single engined warplanes. I can't even imagine what it would be to have a DCS level B-17 in DCS, online gameplay would be awesome, 17s taking off from the edge of the map and the little friends ( Mustangs and P-47, and Spitfires, like it was in reality ) taking off at mid-travel and joining them at 35 000 ft. Then Luftwaffe airfields scattered on the path to the target... that would be awesome. With the incoming NTTR map, the logical solo campaign could also feature bomber crew training, crew management, dummy aerial targets firing from all turrets, bombing practice on static targets on the desert, formation flying practice etc etc... Then, at 20% of the campaign, when the crew is skilled enough " in theory " a simple change of Map from NTTR to Normandy would mean the bomber squadron being sent overseas, and the real deal begins ! With historically true mission, including random mechanical failures leading to aborts, like it also was common back in the times. So much potential :thumbup: From a technical PoV, I don't see any valid reason to say it's impossible or not reasonably feasible. One of the thing we really start to miss in DCS is the multi-crew management system. But soon or later it will have to be implemented or DCS will meet a bottleneck here. Long time community requested modules such Apache, Cobra, Mi-24 Hind, as well as current Huey really need this. Some years ago, I remember posting such a Utopian and dreamers post about the Huey, when no trace of Belsimtek's masterpiece was present at that time : " As my username can let it guess, I'm a fully, deeply, 9000% Huey LOVER That means , civilian or military, -B or -H variants, I'm fond of that chopper.. It's rotorhead, blades, cockpit, overall shape, sounds.. and history are just so... Loving. I would give a lot to be able to fly one in the wonderful DCS Word. This thread is now a year old, Now that P-51 is out, we can launch the polemic again, they release a plane, that should fight in a world full of SAM, Air Ground, Air-Air things.. with what ? six guns ? LOL So I think the weapons side of things is becoming less and less a decisive argument. A Bell UH-1 Huey, in the appropriate foggy, grey, wet map of Vietnam jungles, would just be so SO exciting, with a detailed world that latest DCS offers to us.. Imagin : Start a mission ON YOUR FEET ( so you control the human ) in a forward base, by night, in the middle of a dense jungle. You go to the next barracks and your chiefs give you night's order mission : a team of 7 SOG Soldiers are lost in the deep jungle, near Cambodian border, you have to pick them out ASAP, as patrols on Cambodge is absolutely ( officialy at least ) prohibited, then take them to Da Nang airport cause they're about to finish their Tour Of Duty and should prepare to get back home.. during the flight, all can happen, stay tuned on the radio, the war is still advancing, and all can happen.. ( meaning here you would eventually be called to land on a kind of FARP, ground guys loading rocket pods on your airframe sides ) and we tell you you have fight against a VC attack near Khe Sanh, as soon as 7 guys are delivered. All mission editor, trigger etc offer many possibilities. I'm sorry guys but that sound really exciting plot, you'll need to work like a real pilot, plan your navigation " by the book " on map before, calculating wind drift, fill your navlog, estimate differents headings according to airways ( at least, routes that are known to be " sure " ).. then climb into your venerable UH-1 H, start checklist ( a full check would take 7-10 min ) calculating fuel you should take to fullfil the mission without being too heavy, while taking into account the possibility of a route change. Then finally start turbine, and slowly hear that so known sound of those mighty blades.. That's true us, simmer pilots used to fully automatic or powerful stuf like A-10, Su-25.. even if not latest technology, it's still relatively easy to handle them, the principal fun is by operating weapon.. here it would be have a real workload of navigation and flight management. For example, best submarine sims, Silent Hunter series ,also focus a lot on crew managing, navigation, weather change etc... not only firing a bunch of torpedoes to sink everythink. Some of you may thinks it's rubbish, compared to " LOAD OF DEATH " the A-10 can offer.. but personally, destroying things over and over in the Black Shark kinda boring me a la longue. As you said, Digital COMBAT Simulation means things related to war, not only killing. A battle without logistic support is lost even before starting. The Huey could pickup an artillery piece and bring it on the top of a Hill.. Let's just imagin a second, back in the mid 60's.. " A couple of years later we had the marvelous Bell UH-1H Huey by BST, so, while it's obvious they didn't make it thanks to this particular post, I'm sure it's not useless to make CONSTRUCTIVE requests again and again, showing our deep interest in such aircraft to be developed and released. DCS is growing faster and faster each year and 2014-2017 period is and wil be breathetaking, even only from what we had until now ( and the best is yet to come ^^ ) Have a nice weekend dude, and please feel free to express your thoughts about such projects, positive or negative, as long as you have arguments it's nice :smartass: Hueyman

I would also love a Corsair, been thinking of it for a while now but never saw anything related to in these forums ... Any versions would be so great, but I personaly would love late F4Us like the F4U-5 and -7 that our French Navy used in Indochine and Algerian wars, with the huge four bladed Hamilton Standard prop ! http://perlbal.hi-pi.com/blog-images/142902/gd/131714217884/F4U-7-Corsair.jpg

I'm a B-17 lover, since the early days of my life ! I even recently acquired an original polished propeller blade from the 17's 3,6 m Hamilton Standard Hydromatic propeller, and it's standing in my tiny student pilot room ... All that to say I'm really in love with the Forts, and am currently reading the great book " Three engines, half a wing and a prayer " by Brian D. O'Neil, and each chapter makes me want to have a DCS : B-17F Flying Fortress come out one day... this just could be breathtaking and so innovative from a gameplay point of view. The piloting task is really interesting and would add another dimension to this amazing combat simulator, monitoring aircraft mechanical systems such engines, superchargers, intercoolers etc, and managing the 9 other guys in the ship, with the ability to play each station... Then come the navigator's job which could be a whole simulation on it's own, using the bubble observatory to confirm routes and locations with stars, tools, compass, Inertial Drift Indicator, maps ... The bombardier task and Norden bombsight operation, if simulated accurately, could also be a great challenge ! Pack all that with the DCS level and environment of future WWII theater and you obtain something new and rich that provides hours and hours of exhausting and challenging missions, taking off early in the morning from foggy british airfields and flying 5 or 6 hours, making your way through flak and german fighters, then coming back on only two engines, one feathered and one ripped off, and half the rudder out... That is also air combat, there isn't only fast movers with 6 GBUs and AIMs nor WWII fighters that wrote the history... B-17 did a lot here in Europe. Plus it's, from my point of view, the most awesome looking and nicely proportioned plane in the world, the kind, like the DC-3, that it's shapes and configuration makes you find it beautiful from the first sights. At the Fighter Collection in Duxford, UK, they have one in the Imperial War Museum, and the Sally B which is airworthy. We have the Pink Lady and Yankees got 12 or 13 Forts in flying conditions today, so I'm sure the documentations and material is available... Yes, WE NEED THIS !! Above : The good old IL-2 19646/Pacific Fighters sim, which is one of the only way ( with the very old B-17II : The Mighty 8th ) to fly bombing mission in this bird.

For everyone positive for such ideas, please vote accordingly there : http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=116871&highlight=dcs+vietnam We're already almost five hundred, hopefully getting bigger will make us more legitimate to request, or at least express the wish, for such map to be developed. Thanks

Maybe after one or two years after EDGE release, 3rd parties maps will pop out everywhere and some ambitious Vietnam project could emerge... I hope

Yeah, in X-Plane 10

This is how it's done too in-sim ! Until hyd. pump generates enough pressure, cyclic and collective are locked ... but things should move afterward and they don't !

No this has nothing to do with hydraulic... it's just that Mi-8 rotors animations isn't finished at all for the moment ( thus being in Bêta ) I don't know the Mi-8 intimately but even without hydraulic pressure, as long as the stick moves in the heli there should be small movements on the rotorhead mechanism, even with a small travel, because of the direct linkage mechanism. For the moment there is nothing visually between the collective/cyclic input and the actual movements on the rotorhead, as well as nothing between anti torque pedals and tail rotor ... Hope Belsimtek has this on their TO DO list for next Mi-8 update ;-)

Absolutely. This is what happen on a fully articulated rotor system like on the Mi-8 and this SA330 Puma for example. You can see the blade grips rotate around 3 axis : lead/lag, flap and it's own axis for pitch change. In the lead/lag axis, it make the whole assembly looks like this when nothing is spinning : Because it rotated around this axis : And at start up, this is causing this : Exactly the same thing you see on this Mi-24 start up. As the rotor spools up, angle between all blades become more or less equal ( lead/lag dampers take care of that now ) and the shakes vanishes. On the semi-rigid head design of the Huey, it's different but not so much after all. Blades are always aligned ( only damped by the blade grip drag brace ) but at some RPM during spool up, the dynamic balancing isn't correct and it produces this effect. But IRL it will never rock from one skid to another like it does in DCS, the whole rotor assembly shakes around main gearbox, and itself shakes around the whole mechanic which is mounted on the airframe which, finally, absorb the twist stresses and finishes in the landing skid struts. In DCS, it would be a nightmare to calculate every stresses on every part of the airframe to realistically simulate that shake, so it is simple to make the whole helicopter rocks on the ground at those RPM... By the way, I remember seeing the Belsimtek Mi-8 doing exactly what the Mi-24 on your video did : even though it wasn't visually noticeable ( as rotorhead animation isn't finished at all on the Beta Mi-8 ), we could see the whole heli slowly shaking on it's landing gear shock absorbers while the blades got lined up, that was pretty neat to see, because all other animations ( shock absorbers, landing gear, etc ... ) are spot on !

Hopefully one day someone will start working on something like this ... 408 peoples have voted now, the thread has been viewed 25 000 times and 85% of those people are for it, and I'm sure there is no more than 3-4000 seasoned simmers of DCS nowadays, so I think it's significant, and it's a theater which has never been studied in such a complex and accurate sim ... Will be like a huge fresh breath over the overly done WWII theaters ! I hope that EDGE will bring the tools needed to make DCS World a true flexible platform where several projects will starts ;-)

As a Vietnam era and Huey fan/enthusiast, I was happy to see the Gulf model in the pipeline ... But I sadly have to admit yes, we have too many rocket launchers for the moment, and until we have a good Vietnam map and scenarios with finely made campaing and ground units, it's pointless to have a G model in modern caucasus nor Nevada ... So I voted for the Whiskey one, which will be the counterpart of the Kamov, until the Apache comes out. Only the TOW missile capability make it a more serious threat on the battlefield than any unguided rocket launchers that all Huey gunships/Cobra/Cayuse were ... But from the only " Aircraft " point of view and flying stuff, I would go for the AH-1G , the Huey best friend in Vietnam like Gazelles and Tigres are for our french Pumas

Okay :-) Hey psssstt ... BTW, this plane is truly amazing ^^

Ok thanks guys, seems that's true ! Just wondering why it was worked on ( modeled and explained in the manual ) if this didn't actually exist...

Oh ok sorry didn't know you mean ultimate load, I thought you told the normal max G-Load ;-) Cheers !

If the max limit is 11G, you won't break your wings at 11G as there is a safety coefficient in every structures/mechanical parts, even ( especially ! ) in aeronautic engineering. from 8 to 15%, this safety coeff. ensure that the plane won't break at max allowable G, or at VNE or ... etc etc But it's not advisable as you may imagin, for the airframe longevity :thumbup:

This feature on the real world counterpart was mentioned in one of the early version of the Flight Manual. It said : " Additional controls are also available that allow for some Engine Control Unit parameters to be manually finetuned. The propeller pitch can be manually overridden via the corresponding switch located alongside the throttle lever. The switch is normally set to Autom. Betrieb (Automatic), but can be manually set to Handbetrieb (Manual). That enables the Drehzahl rocker switch on the throttle quadrant to set propeller pitch to Größer (Coarse) or Kleiner (Fine). Holding the thumb button in one of these positions continues to modify the prop pitch for as long as the button is depressed, and until the limit is reached. Therefore, this switch can be used to feather the propeller. " I see nothing at the end of the throttle lever and this part seems to have vanished from the actual FM of this release. It is definitely removed or will it come later on an update ? Feathering the prop or fine tuning prop pitch and so RPM is a nice idea for engine failure or long cruise flight

Same here, probably like in real life ... ?

It depends what you mean by rotorhead ... I don't mean the whole rotor assembly spinning of course ... but each mechanical parts like swashplate, pushrods, blade grips and so on ... Like on the Huey and KA-50 after all

Yeah, and in the mod manager it appears as available, but don't succeed to download it ! I'm sure it's a matter of hours if not minutes ! " Files are being uploaded " ;-)

I'm wondering when this will be implemented in this module. Every single DCS branded product got all their control surfaces moving properly according to flight controls inputs, but the Mi-8 stay rock solid... Rudder pedals don't visually move the tail rotor blades pitch Collective doesn't move the swashplate up and down, and so pushrods don't actuate the pitch of all blades simultaneously Cyclic don't actuate swashplate and so, no rotations around blade grip spindle shaft ... I know you guys are aware of this " lack " as it's like if an airplane would not see its ailerons or elevator moving with stick moves... kinda huge ! But I noticed the animation of blades themselves for coning, dropping and articulation of the fully animated rotorhead is definitely there ( when the ship crashed and is on it's side, you can see that each blade grip rotates around the flapping axis... So, will we ever see this done ?

That smells bad, really

Yeah guys you both made a point ! But working hard to render each branches, each leaves and tree parts a hard object and making all correct calculations to see how it would react when colliding with airframe parts... does it really worth it ? I mean, you know when you are flying through foliage that you souldn't be alive IRL, does it require a whole team to work hard to actually make you crash ? Or you can just be adult and fly a couple of feets above treetop like everyone is doing ? That shouldn't avoid a great VISUAL representation of a dense jungle and green areas ...

I think many of you misinterpreted one of my poll choice ;-) ! In 3rd parties, I didn't mean Belsimtek especially, but any 3rd parties, even new ones who would like to start in this business by focusing on maps and campaign development ( that is the only area we lack now we have helis and fighters from all eras )

I really hope Eagle Dynamics will finally make a B-17F ( G is ubiquitous ... ) of the P-51 and Dora level ... BTW, this B-17 mockup don't have wing dihedral at all... was this really intended to a be a DCS Module ? ...

Same here ... What should we do ?