Sierra99

Skate the only comment I disagree with is this one... The aircraft the F-35B was meant to replace was the AV-8B. The Marines needed a more capable V/STOL aircraft to replace the Harrier but the costs associated with such a small projected production run of F-35B was fiscally prohibitive. The only way to get the F-35B for the Marines was to spread out over all three services. F-35As and F-35Cs exist to bring the per unit cost down to a reasonable level. A friend who worked on the Boeing JSF program said there were many internal conversations about "What would happen" and "How much it would cost" to produce a Marine only version of the F-32 vs all three versions. The common understanding was "it's to expensive to do it that way."

For me it is the simple fact that despite what people here want to believe...The USAF simply did not use them on the F-15C as widely as people want to believe. This is a direct quote from an article written by the Commander of Air Forces Iceland in 1990... With all due respect...I'm gonna take his word and my firsthand experience of never seeing one in 22 years over the opinions of those here who maintain otherwise.

Yes...It does. And I not assuming anything...It's a fact. F-15Es are delivered from the factory with CFTs. They are part of the Basic Aircraft Weight and Moment for each aircraft and are accounted for in the individual aircraft Chart C because each aircraft is a little different and they do not normally operate without them. Period. F-15Cs are not and were not delivered with CFTs. They are not part of the Basic Weight and Moment for each aircraft because they do not normally operate WITH them. Period. Since 21-202 does not list CFTs as part of ANY Standard Configuration Load (SCL) and "Changes to this instruction are significant requiring a complete review"...They are not Standard or Normal loadouts. They are not Authorized for use. Period. Now, obviously the 57th used them. And I guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt their use was coordinated through HQ PACAF/DOTW before they did it. It might have been a 57th FIS supplement to 21-202...it might have been a Base Operating Instruction that prescribed in detail the requirements for use. Same goes for the Alaska units. But the simple fact is they didn't just decide it was a good idea...go out and find some CFTs nobody was using and start using them. Somebody approved their use. Israeli and Saudi Charlies are a completely different subject because they don't fall under OUR regulations. (Apples and Oranges) When a regulation says compliance is mandatory...it's not a suggestion. People get fired or die for things like that. If it's not listed in a regulation...It does not exist. I'm kinda done arguing with you. I have 22 years of experience actually dealing with and understanding Air Force Operating Instructions and Weight and Balance procedures. I have taught weight and balance computations to students in a classroom setting and on cargo missions actually loading cargo. Unless you can match that experience...You simply don't know what you are talking about as far as how the Air Force computes Weight and Balance or loads weapons. So here's the deal...You find me a USAF regulation stating CFTs are cleared for Normal Operations on USAF F-15Cs...I'll accept your word. You find me a Wing or base Operating Instruction for someplace other than Alaska or Kef directing the use of CFTs I'll eat my words. But until then I stand by my statements. Good luck here, I'm done.

You're confusing the -50 with the SCL charts. The -50 is a record of items that are Permanently or Semi Permanently attached to the aircraft... Lets look at 21-202 again. At the very top of the first page it says "COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY" Not recommended...not suggested...Mandatory. The very first paragraph says "This instruction implements AFPD 21-2, Nonnuclear and Nuclear Munitions. It provides the single standard naming convention for aircraft configurations to be used within PACAF." According to the Header...This is mandatory. Next is the summary of revisions "This revision removes the existing numerically designated conventional loads formerly published in PAC AFI 21-202 and implements SCL naming conventions for all aircraft. This naming convention aligns with joint air operations standards developed for use in the Theater Battle Management Core System (TBMCS). SCL codes and individual unit matrices are at Attachment 1. Changes to this instruction are significant requiring a complete review." This means if it's not listed...you can't load it. Finally we get to Attachment 1 "SCL COMPONENTS AND UNIT MATRICES" Table A1.1. List of SCL components. Scroll all the way down to the end of the instruction. Conformal Tanks are not listed one single time. They are not listed for the F-15E's because they are considered "Part of the Aircraft" and accounted for in the Chart C. They are not listed for the F-15C's because they were not regularly used and they were not part of any standard configuration standard according to this regulation. They could not be used "at will" as others maintain because the instruction specifically states "Changes to this instruction are significant requiring a complete review." 21-202 actually ends the discussion. The previous version of PACAFI 21-202, dated 1 August 1997. lists 610 gallon drop tanks not CFTs in the F-15C SCLs. PACAFI 21-202, dated 9 May 2003 lists "1 Tank, 2 Tanks, 3 Tanks not CFTs in the F-15C SCLs. Basically CFTs did not exist because they were not included in the SCL listing. I am trying to locate older wing documents for Kef and Elmendorf. They might contain specific instructions permitting / directing the use of CFTs...but that action would been coordinated through HQ PACAF/DOTW. https://users.libero.it/ulisse31/PACAF 21-202.pdf

Actually I am going to correct you on this point... You are correct. CFTs are not mentioned for Strike Eagles in 21-202 not because they aren't tanks or loadouts. They are accounted for in the aircraft Basic Weight and Moment as computed using TO-1-1B-50 (Weight and Balance calculations). Specifically Chart "C". Since F-15Es are normally configured with CFTs...the CFTs would be added as to the TO-1-1B-50 Chart C as part of the Basic Aircraft for Weight and Balance. (I.E. "Permanent".) If they are removed...An annotation would either be made to the Chart C accounting for their removal or accounted for on the 365-4 Form F. (WT and Balance Clearance form) Since they are not "tanks" they are not listed as part of the F-15E SCLs. Since they are not Standard they are not listed as part of the F-15C SCLs. The document says exactly what I have been telling you. For the terms of our discussion, CFTs are not a Normal or Standard loadout for F-15Cs. If they were they would have been listed as such.

Since I have already acknowledged the 75th at Kef used CFTs on a regular basis I’m not sure why you are trying to convince me it happened. That being said… They are not…and have never been “Standard” across the F-15C fleet. In the end we will have to wait and see what ED decides. You have your mind made up as far as what you want and I know what’s realistic. fly safe.

Because...It's not. Posting a few examples of aircraft fitted with CFTs does not make it a "Standard and Normal configuration". As I said before in 22 years of active duty flying and in the 15 years since retirement I have never seen a photo of a USAF F-15C configured with CFTs. Not once. I have found references to Occasional use in Kef and Alaska...but they are far from the Norm. Why? Because the USAF is quite proficient at Air Refueling. Fighters don't need to add CFTs because we just add tankers to the strike plan and send it. That being said obviously more definitive information is required... Google "PACAF INSTRUCTION 21-202. PACAF STANDARD CONVENTIONAL LOADS" " This document provides the single standard naming convention for aircraft configurations to be used within PACAF." In other words it is THE source document for what is considered a "Standard and Normal" load for PACAF Aircraft. There is not one single mention of conformal tanks in that Instruction. 1,2,and 3 external tanks are mentioned...but no conformal tanks. (Every command has a similar document...google is your friend) The USAF F-15Cs being modeled by DCS do not need Conformal tanks nor do they need General Air to Ground capability. ( That was removed early in the their existence. ) I could be added to account for the outliers but they were far from the norm.

https://www.twz.com/18259/its-back-to-the-future-for-u-s-f-15c-eagles-and-conformal-fuel-tanks

" USAF Eagles only took limited advantage of FAST packs, with some jets deployed to Iceland or stationed in Alaska using them sporadically for the long-range air sovereignty role. " https://jalopnik.com/the-amazing-saga-of-how-israel-turned-its-f-15s-into-mu-1701606283

Do you have anything other than photos to support this statement? Perhaps a copy of an Operating instruction or Regulation directing their use? Again a photo is a single moment in time. It does not indicate a standard practice or event. Show me an article from the base paper announcing their use (yes something like that is possibly out there). Show me more than one picture to prove it was common place. The point is far from lost on me. I have already said the fact Saudi Arabia and Israel both used them along with the 57th so in my mind there is more than enough justification for including them. What people decide to do with them if they are included is up to them. This is exactly the same as the F-16 3 Mavericks under each wing question. The Air Force decided after testing that 3 Mavs on a TER was a bad idea because firing them in this manner caused damage to the aircraft. Experts in DCS pointed a a few pictures of F-16s configured with 6 mavs and decided this was "proof" it was regularly done. The only USAF unit documented to have REGULARLY used CFTs is the 57th. Until you can fill in the blanks for the other photos they are still unicorns. it wouldn't surprise me if ED adds CFTs. This is a game. But in real life the practice was far from simply a configuration option.

My source is the fact I spent 22 Years, 4 Months and 0 Days as an Inflight Refueling Operator in the USAF from 1986 to 2009. In those 22 years I can tell you for fact I never saw a single F-15C model fitted with Conformal tanks. Not once during the Cold War... Not once during Desert Shield... Not once during Desert Storm... Not once during Southern Watch... Not once during Northern Watch... Not once flying out of Alaska supporting NORAD F-15s... Not once during F-15C fighter drags to and from the Middle East... Not once during a training mission... Not once in 22 years. You are welcome to call that source bunk if you wish. However, my other source is one on one conversations with F-15E maintainers during a fighter drag who stated they generally didn't like removing the CFTs unless they had to or the Jet was going to Boeing for Depot since Boeing didn't want to deal with them. I said before there are reasonable explanations for why photos exist of Kadena, Langley and Elmendorf jets configured with CFTs. I'm inclined to believe they are former 57th birds transferred to other units who didn't bother to take them off until they had to...Or perhaps they were some sort of Test program that was never adopted...you are welcome to believe what you wish. But until you can provide context for the photos in question (Where, When, Why etc) I will maintain that all you have are photos of one off examples of a seldom used fuel tank. Unicorns. Now having said that...I really don't care one way or the other...I'm quite sure the programmers are more capable of making it an option if they want to. In my mind the fact Israel and Saudi Arabia used them really is more than enough justification to include them. But everyone maintaining a few pictures means they were used widely on USAF C models is simply incorrect.

There are a lot of assumptions being made here based on photos... The USAF 57th Fighter-Interceptor Squadron based at NAS Keflavik, Iceland, was the only C-model squadron to use CFTs on a regular basis due to its extended operations over the North Atlantic. While other photos show F-15s equipped with CFTs they lack specific information regarding the circumstances. The first thing that comes to mind is; Where did Keflavik's F-15s go after the 57th closed? If they went to Langley, Kadena and Elmendorf they might have kept the CFTs until their next depot check. (Easier to remove them at depot) No matter what photos seem to show...It was not standard practice...it was not a standard configuration option.

What is the value / part # / Source for the resistors you're using?

So without putting to fine a point on it...You don't have to know the ratios if you are using a Bodnar Board. Fit it for the Potentiometer of your choice and once it's wire and operational you can adjust the curves in DCS until it works to your satisfaction.

Any chance you would share the .step file. I'd like to modify it to use a custom base.