Bearcat

Oh.. I am not suggesting at all that DCS switch to props en masse .. I think that their product is so good that they could still do modern jets as well.. even if the modern jets were still their primary focus.. I feel you on that ..Not the whole jet thing so much as the fact that this is your chosen hobby and from what I have seen and heard no one does it better as far as modern AC go.. and the last thing you want to see is them switching gears en masse.. but I don't think that's going to happen and in the FAQ it said as much.. What I am hoping is that they can maybe get enough third party folks to do some or most of the grunt work.. and then they can shine it up and put it out there.. Who knows.. (somebody does but I certainly don't..) maybe that is a monumentally daunting task that is just dreaming bigger than any one company can deliver on.. I am not sure what all goes into it.. I'm just dreaming, suggesting and sharing what's n my head with folks who, even if they aren't interested per se can certainly appreciate it or have some kind of opinion on it good or bad.. Who knows before this is all said and done I my become just as interested in the whole DCS stable.. because it is all that good.. but to see this my favorite AC modeled this well.. umph umph umph .. gotta tell ya.. It sparks the dream machine for sure..

That's where the gloves that are synched to the virtual pit will come in.. Then instead of seeing dovens of people walking around and sitting with their heads down and their thumbs going nuts you will see people sitting around gropng at the air... :megalol: .. .. but seriously .. didn't someone come up with a set of glasses recently that are supposed to be HD but will still allow you to see the world around you.. That is way cool BTW.. can FFB body suits be very far behind..

Yeah I think that would be great.. I'd like to see a FFB Hotas plus pedals that were made so that they would also vibrate according to RPMs.. but a butt kickier on your seat.. and the only thing missing are the actual G forces... :pilotfly: I remember talking to a few of The Airmen from my local chapter and they all said that they had to give a lot of right rudder .. especially on the P-40s for some reason (I would have thought it would have been similar since they both used the 1650 engine.. they were flying Cs though) One guy who passed away last year said that he had to practically stand on the rudder pedals to keep the plane straight ..

Thanks for the response... very helpful.

In war most men do not fight for political reasons. In the end, whether in the air, on land or sea.. they do so for their comrades.. and just to make it home to their families. To those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. A heart felt ........ ~!S!~

Yes that is what I meant.. and actually that part of my statement was more of a question .. thanks to you and Tharos for cleaning that up.. Yes but the flight sim community is different anyway.. I don't think the folks who thought IL2 was a bit too challenging .. will have the stones for anything DCS.. I fully understand what you are saying .. I think the good thing about this whole DCS model is... you can buy what you want.. out of all the planes in IL2 I primarily fly allied AC .. I never fly axis AC.. so in this scenario I wouldn't buy them.. I'd buy what I liked to fly .. and for me personally .. I'd probably pay a few $$ more for certain AC ... but that's me.. I just think that overall $15-$25 ... even $30 will sell better as they add AC.. unless each new AC comes with some new content as well..There are some who will buy it regardless .. but for many no matter how much they want to $40 would be prohibitive several times a year.. (and that's assuming they released new stuff on some kind of regular schedule.. )Now if they only released one AC a year that would be different.. but then you'd be looking at what 3-5 years down the road just to get a reasonably accurate historical matchup in what is arguably the most accurate and detailed rendering of one particular WWII AC ever modeled.. and who knows what other stuff will be released by then by other folks.. DCS is gong to do what is best for their business and I understand that .. I am just curious to see how this will all pan out.. It is a great product though.. and in many ways it is it's own best salesman. Yes but on this I think that there are many who would just choose to not pay regardless of the price..

I have owned both CH and Saitek Pro Flights.. and I prefer the Saiteks.. they have a wider stance, a smoother throw and adjustable foot rests.. You can also adjust the tension on them although I thnk I could do that on the CH pedals as well.. it has been a while..

I posted this in the for sale forum for someone who was trying to sell theie X-52 with a bent axis.. I saw this forum and figured I'd post this here in modified form (no pun intended) just in case someone might need the info. I modified my old X-45 till one of the boards went after 7 years.. then I got an X-52 and modded it.. It isn't fancy but it works like a charm and takes up a lot less real estate on my desk. Hope this info helps someone. Usually when a X or Y axis goes out on n X-52 it is something simple like a broken wire because there are no pots.. they are hall effect sensors.. I am not sure what's in the throttle because I never took it apart.. but the stick only has one pot.. and that one is for the twist rudder. The X-52 is very modular.. Much easier to mod than the X-45.. I left the throttle in tact on mine and just modified the stick... If you want to substitute pots for the hall sensors like I did I think you need linear taper pots.. @ $.50 each.. The pot shown in the bottom picture is the twist rudder pot.. I use that for trim. The two red knobs are my X & Y pots.. This is a nice little undertaking if you already have a stick that you like or are thinking about getting a different stick like maybe a CH stick.. and you can use the Saitek as a throttle/button bay.. I use a MSFFB2 as my main stick.. Final Build The 3 switches on the right are the pinky and two trigger switches from the stick. The blue pot in the front is the rudder pot which I use for rudder trim.

Don't know if you sold it yet but that fix might be as simple as a wire.. You might also consider undertaking this as a little project. I modified my old X-45 till one of the boards went after 7 years.. then I got an X-52 and modded it.. The X-52 is very modular.. Much easier to mod than the X-45.. I left the throttle in tact on mine and just modified the stick... If you want to substitute pots for the hall sensors like I did I think you need linear taper pots.. @ $.50 each.. The pot shown in the bottom picture is the twist rudder pot.. I use that for trim. The two red knobs are my X & Y pots.. If the project comes out fine get yourself a nice CH stick.. and you can use the Saitek as a throttle/button bay.. I use a MSFFB2 as my main stick..

I agree... In some ways it is like comparing a walkman to an IPOD ... The comparisons will be made of course .. and personally I think that is more a testament to the greatness of IL2.. There was a time when from a pure sim standpoint regardless to what some FA & AH guys may say ... IL2 was as good as it got... as flawed as it may have been.. but it is over a decade old and therefore the comparisons are largely moot. One would expect a product that was released in 2012 to be much better than one released in 2001 .. I think better, and fairer comparisons could be made between Wings of Prey and Cliffs of Dover and DCS. I think that the DCS P-51.. which is the only DCS AC that I have done more than a cursory flight in and also the only one whose FM I can actually compare through multiple sims ... is the finest model of the aircraft made to date.. but none of that can take away what 1C did for the genre with IL2.. I don't know where DCS plans to go with this .. I don't think we will ever see the varied planeset that we see in IL2 here in DCS .. which is fine with me.. I'd be happy with a dozen or so give or taker a few WWII era aircraft modeled this way ... I couldn't agree more.. and that was one of the things that made IL2 so unique at it's height.. Before the mods came out for better or worse.. you had to learn to fly what you had .. not what the historical stats said you were supposed to have.. and it was challenging to do so. It definitely had it's flaws for sure.. but it was still a good piece.. and I think that FB changed that because I had to use a lot more runway in a fully loaded P-47 with rockets and bombs than I did in one with just extra ammo .. The same can be said for taking off from a carrier as well... I understand what teapot is saying .. that s the same thing that happened to me when I first tried IL2 from CFS 1 .. and when the first Mustang was released in FB .. the one that came in a patch.. it was miles ahead of anything in CFS even the 1% planes I think they were called... Nothing can take away what IL2 has done and it can even still be argued that pound for pound it is still at this point in time the best WWII sim on the market.. but there is absolutely no doubt that the DCS Mustang has raised the bar to an entirely different level, one that will be hard to compete with.. I think that even if they come out with a handfull of planes.. every WWII sim on the market today will have to be looking over their shoulder.. I never was into jets but I know a lot of guys who are and they all thought that FC was even better than Falcon as far as modern AC go.. and let's face it .. there aren't a lot of helo sims out anyway so there is no competition on that front either for DCS.

That's cause that Mustang is such a sexy beast in it's own right .. That's some pretty good stuff you have linked there joey.. :megalol:

To EthearalN .. Good stuff .. thanks for the input .. as I said from the start ... it was just ideas and suggestions ... I am very pleased with this product and I will be so glad when they work out the FFB issue .. In the meantime I am just fiddling with it and the more I fiddle the sweeter the sound.. I mentioned the numbers I did because I spoke to a bunch of guys who are interested in this but they balked at the $40 per price tag when thinking "Well where is this going?" hence my less than $40 starting point.. I am not familiar with how DCS does business at all .. but I do like the product and do not plan on going anywhere any time soon GOD willing and the creek don't rise.. which is why I am posting here so I can find out ..

I was not thinking one every year.. I was thinking if DCS got some 3rd party people to put out a batch of WWII stiff .. say something like 12 planes over 18 months or so... that would change the dynamic a bit and make $40 a plane over that period a bit problematic for some.. but at $15-$25 it would be more doable and if the model was inserted in the code as AI .. if you didn't want to buy the plane to activate the flyable for yourself someone on a server who did not have that particular plane would still be able to fly in a server that you were n.. Am I making sense? Again .. these are all just suggestions.. they are not things to be judged perse but more to be worked out through mutual deliberation, weighing the pros and cons among the potential buyers and fans of the product so that DCS won't have to do as much deliberation... I must admit though .. I do have an agenda .. and that is to see at the very least some variant of 190, 109,Spitfire,Zero,Tony,Hurricaine,Thunderbolt, Lavochkin,Mig,Macchi, Corsair & Hellcat rendered under the same fidelity as this P-51 because it is great and I can't wait for the finished product... I just think that lowering the price would result in more sales ... Where that sweet spot is I honesty cannot say I just came up with a number that was in line with what I would be willing to pay per aircraft, but the notion that selling new AC at even $15-$25 a plane would garnish more sales than pricing them at $40 per plane, which would result in a bigger bottom line is not just one that is solely based on my opinion but common sense. In the end I have no doubt that DCS will do the necessary research themselves and come up with a viable scenario.. if expanding farther into WWII AC is even on their radar, regardless to what they have said at this time on their website... it is all just ideas...

Point taken.. and thank you. I still think however, that in the case of the WWII AC a not necessarily "new" but different paradigm must be embraced. If you factor in the fact that WWII AC need less work... even going as high as $25 a plane .. would work.. It would work.. As much as I love WWII AC I don't know if I could justify spending $40 per plane .. for my own personal fun.. considering.. but even at $25 a pop.. it is doable and potentially very profitable.. and IMO more profitable than the $40 a pop scenario ..

Nice try? WTH is that supposed to mean.. ?:cry: You need to check yourself there my friend.. I am not trying anything.. I am just making a suggestion.. One that may not and very likely will not be followed through with by the developers.. but it is simply my opinion .. and I am voicing it.. Get off your horse there bubba and chill out. :huh: I am well aware of how good the DCS models are and what they entail.. I am not a novice at this flight sim thing .. by a long shot. I just don't like jets ... but that's me.. I am also well aware that this is a beta and that the FFB issue will be fixed.. As I said .... I am just making a suggestion.. The WWII market is huge and despite all the work that goes into making a DCS AC ... if each AC is marketed at $40 it will be a harder sell.. but if each new AC was marketed at the price I mentioned .... even up to $20 per.. considering the fidelity of the model..it would sell better than $40 per.. and that's all I am saying. I know hundreds of guys just like me.. who love simming.. are not crazy about the modern stuff.. and would wet their pants to get a broader offering of classic warbirds with the fidelity of this P-51.. and the volume would offset the cost. In my humble opinion. As for the map number .. that was kind off off the top of my head.. so OK granted.. even at $20 for a good map of the quality rendered in DCS works alone.. it would be worth it..

I think the $40 per plane will not go over well .. no matter how well t is modeled .. In this economy people just do not have that kind of bread... The RoF model would work though so t would be a 10+ sales @ $40 vs 40+ sales @ $10 type of scenario.. and I think the latter would fly better than the former because the final numbers would be much higher at $10 per than $40 per.. Especially for folks who have already dropped full price for their other offerings... To expect someone to drop $40 continually for one plane is counterproductive IMO.. They could market it as a "If you by BS2 or FC2 or the DCS P-51 at full price you can get any WWII add ons (or any other era as well for tat matter) for $10 a plane/chopper with the code for each model built into updates so that if someone who had a plane/chopper that you didn't came on your server you would at least be able to see it..but you would have to buy the flyable..... that way they would kind of force people to at least look at their more modern offerings .. and who knows .. something might click. If not then they (DCS) still got $40 and you won't feel ripped off because you got something for your $40. They should market DCS world on either BS2, FC2 or the P-51 @ $40 and from there on out ... $10-$15 a pop per plane. I think it would fly .. I'd buy it .. so you multiply that $10-$15 per plane by the number of WWII simmers just chomping at the friggin bit for something that is this good.. and mind you .. I use a MSFFB2 so I still have yet to experience this product right... because my FFB does not work and I can't really fly with absolutely no resistance and I will not be buying a spring stick just for this, but what I have done n free flight is very very impressive.. If DCS could duplicate this just in models alone.. (as in one maybe two models of each.. a P-51B and a P-51D.. a FW F-9 and an F-9, A 109 Gustav and a Kurfurst etc... more is always better of course but I am just being practical I fully understand thast the IL2 model will probably never ever be duplicated as far as variants of AC goes) .. If they did that and introduced the AI version of each new plane/chopper as a free update people would gobble it up like viagra at the Playboy mansion. Maybe as time goes by $5-$10 for maps as well.. but you would have to have DCS world (which you could only get by buying BS2.FC2 or the P-51 initially) .. folks would buy it ... I'd be willing to bet money.. because this DCS stuff is that good.. As I said .. I have LOMAC and BS .. but I just couldn't get into them so I never really got into a DCS product till this Pony.... and it is friggin great!! Carpe Diem ........ because believe me .. you can...

The movie was entertaining... but it could have been better.. the script was bad.. very bad.. and some of the costumes were bad too.. They did get the markings right though.. and I could pick out certain characters based on the roles... but it could have been a lot better.. It should have been a lot better.

I am well aware of the Gaijin and 1C offerings but at the moment I still think that DCS is at a critical point with this and could find themselves in a good position.

Couldn't agree more... There ae some pretenders to the throne out there.. but frankly this thing stands in line to win it all.. an established community.. and there is an established WWII community just chomping at the bit for some digestible fare.. With all the current WWII stuff out there .. this is the only thing that I see that has the true potential to deliver on it's hints of promise.. The jet stuff is pretty much unequaled .. DCS could lock up a huge swath of the genre if they handled this right... Right out the box with just one friggin aircraft they did more right than any of the current crop of WWII developers that I have seen.. runs great on my 6 year old Fx-60 and looks d@mn good on low settings.. I haven't even tried to crank it up to see where it starts to stutter... Mission builder.. mission editor... AI... It isn't perfect but it has all the ingredients that a simmer would want... from any era .. and believe me.. there is enough out there for the gamers already.. As far as WWII sims go .... the King is old.. and very long in the tooth.. his heir while he could be a great king (way too much Game of Thrones..:P) is weak and vulnerable... the upstarts may not have what it takes to ride it out for the long haul.. but this .. this has some muscle.

Hey guys how about opening up another section for skins if it is doable.. There are so many skin threads up ... It kinda almost warrants another room ... :music_whistling::smilewink:

I noticed something else about the reflections.. They are static.. When you open the canopy the reflection moves with it.. I wonder how difficult it would be to make the interior reflections stationary so that they reflect where the glass is instead of the static drawing.. still a nice touch though.. I really like the way the sound is done in here.. I can only dream of hearing a DB605 ... umph umph umph.. (Not to hijack your thread.. ;))

Gotcha! Thanks:thumbup:

OK Robo .. how the heck do you get this thing to work.. ?:helpsmilie:

Thank you.. here is a screen of the finished product..

I have never seen a double antenna on a P-51 till the DCS P-51... are you guys sure that is correct?