AbortedMan

Easy there... I'm just responding with my reactionary feedback to the suggestions people are making about buffing Su27/red team, how is that whining? Also, why is it whining when I say something, but not you? Is it so impossible to just have a discussion with different opinions and not get mad and start judging people?

HARMs don't work on EWS.

Blue communication and teamwork is top-notch when people are on. This is something I've never experienced on red team and it's the only thing pushing me and my group to join blue at all. Sitting in teamspeak with 20 other people spewing stream of consciousness word vomit while someone with an extremely heavy accent in the GCI slot whispers into their mic BRA for a pop-up bandit to God knows who is all I've ever heard from sitting in the red teamspeak channel. It's agony.

It's not going well. And how do you expect Blue to just find and destroy placed Red EWRs?

So NOW you want to look at what the issue is before DL was added?? Why not ask this question before DL was added?? Where were you in that conversation with your expertise on "asymmetrical balance" of missions??

All that experience doesn't mean much when you're still lobbying for buffs to the team that is winning over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

Also, you should be licking every new player's bean bag and wishing for every bit of feedback from them...new players are the reason this whole thing is going to stay alive and well. Unless you want to play DCS with the same 5 guys and only those same 5 guys, you should pull up your drawers, put that thing away and start being more amicable to the community's feedback.

It doesn't take a surly, all-knowing, well-seasoned DCS mission-masterpiece-sculpting veteran with a veiny, raging, rock hard e-peen such as yourself to realize that there is an overarching disparity between teams in the current and recently past scenario. You're not getting it past your thick air quaking skull that any buff to the Su27, or red team's kit in general, is exactly the opposite of what is needed to ensure quality gameplay for everyone right now.

530D was garbage when it was released. If range was everything then the 120 would win in every single scenario in every server. It's this kind of hyperbole mentality that skews fun gameplay for both sides. You know the differences in ordnance, why aren't you playing to their strengths and weaknesses? Don't make your presence known until you're within operating range of your tools, don't just fly CAP to go after fighters...fly to protect your attackers, use EO and terrain masking to get in close, use ground clutter to your advantage. You are correct, the results are speaking for themselves...red is winning every round by a landslide. Alpenwolf had 13 kills and 0 deaths in a Su27 days before DataLink was added while there was like 30 people on. You can't tell me it's not possible because it's an inferior airframe. All of this debate aside, blue players clearly just aren't having fun anymore and/or red has something that is giving them the win every time. What do you suggest to fix this?

I've said it multiple times...this debate started when I watched someone face**** a missile in a direct head-on with zero attempt to beam until the very last second and exclaimed it was the missile's fault in chat. What if 3 blue-only players came into this thread and said that EO and IR missiles are OP and in absolutely no way can be countered and that they wanted it removed or they wanted the AIM-120 added to compensate for the imbalance? Do you see the error in the logic here?

Look, I'm sure we're all after the same thing...a good time while playing DCS, and I appreciate the sensible response. You have to see where I (and others) are coming from... There is a vocal minority of people here on this thread pointing out their perceived deficiencies of Red team's available mechanics, missiles, and airframes or whatever. This is happening all the while red has won the last 5 test rounds and before that won the majority of them since testing for this next round began. It simply does not make sense to be calling for buffs to any red airframe...even if it is to attempt to solve the abundance of Mirages. Power creep is a deadly thing to gameplay. The arguments I've seen in favor of giving red this or that have all stemmed from what I have witnessed being a simple lack of skill and application of proper tactics. Period. Not trying to insult anyone or bash their skill/ego or whatever. The reason why many people are losing is not because they're in a Mig29 or Su27 and it's lacking X...it's the choices they make while decision time is upon them and they are blaming the wrong thing for their loss. This lack of introspection is affecting other player's experience by creating an environment unfit for quality gameplay on both teams. Blue Flag is unique in its rule set and limited on purpose...not by simulated era, not by country/region/manufacturer alliance. It's up to you as a player to accept the differences in assets and mechanics available to each team when you make the choice to go red or blue. When I started playing this was clear and concise...now the lines have been blurred due to frustrated people not willing to learn and trying to change the mission to their will. It's frustrating to watch and stand by and say nothing.

YOU PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR ETs ERs AND R77s, WTF??

Someone isn't reading the thread before typing. If the problem is Mirages then why aren't people asking for limitations on the Mirage? Why not ask for removing 530D...instead it's "I want DL, I want fuel, I want R77, I want ER's, I want everything that will make the aircraft I think looks the coolest into the best aircraft in the server". You're not trying to balance shit for the betterment of everyone's gameplay. You just want to gobble up the kills like every other airquaker out there, and you want it easy.

"Buff red teem plz." https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7YEoxf7UIxAZ1VLNTlNTHhIUG8/view?usp=sharing Who won the last 5, 6, 7...8 test rounds? Red. "Give us DataLink so we can be effective plz" "Give us A10 because reasons plz" "Give us 100% fuel because I lost a dogfight because I was on the ramp too long every single time I fly plz" And now look at the server...a fraction of the people are playing because of this garbage.

No one is asking for "asymmetrical balance" though...they're literally asking for everything to be the same. Missile capabilities, RWR capabilities, SEAD and ground attack aircraft...Right down to fueling times. It's petty and ignorant.

Interesting to see all of the wildly different stories about the Su27 and the Mirage in this thread. Almost makes you think all the people talking about inferiority and balance would be better suited talking about viable tactics.

I thought DL and EO were almost worthless?

Oh, sorry. I was on a posting rampage. I thought you were implying that you hoped Ciribob will be adding all jets to all captured airfields. That's not how it was before the updated mission...captured airfields would be extremely limited as they got farther away from your team's lines. ...but yes, at the very least Beslan should have spawns and SAMs/AAA.

It's the classic "pushing gets more difficult as you push" gameplay doctrine that's alive and well in a lot of games today. How is this a problem that should be fixed?

You're describing intended gameplay on Blue Flag, not a balance issue...as you push the front you need to manage resources and prioritize capturing specific objectives to sustain the attack. This is what makes airfields valuable. These same issues would be for Blue as well (if they got out of fighters and started playing the objectives). One thing is apparent: People want to fly Mirage. If you remove it from the equation then people just go to a different server. Are people not using the airfields they capture to refuel when they get into the area? Because they should be. EDIT: Lolz, just read the rest of your post.

You guys are going hard on the "mirroring is balance" thing again. A 2 minute difference between an F-15 and Su27 refueling isn't going to sway the map color. It also directly contradicts the arguments I've seen here that Mirage starting with no fuel does nothing...it does nothing until it's comparing the F-15 and Su27 fuel times?? Nothing should get fuel. Nothing. You die, you get punished. End of story. Think of it as a respawn timer. Take it as an opportunity to go have a smoke break or rub one out between sorties.

In all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if they've given up due to the debating that resulted in red team getting yet again more tools to "balance" whatever it is this time the red-only players felt they needed to be competitive. Just the other week one of the prominent blue players stated in server that "you guys are turning this into another 104th with all this complaining about changes. I'm outta here" or something to that effect. Haven't seen him since. I'm red this round and I don't even feel like playing on BF because of the team disparity brought on by this. This slippery slope is what I was talking about, you guys.

Uhh...Mirage doesn't need to do INS alignment. It's an option in the special tab of DCS options menu.

There are A10s and Mi8s on both teams.

The teams are stacked now. 299 red to 419 blue and there are more red on during off hours. I would have thought it would have been the opposite.