Warhog

I need an email address and I will send you my CamBam file for the EMI faceplates.

Thank you Hans. Your comments are most appreciated. Both Ian (Jan) and myself really enjoyed doing it. I was just a little apprehensive at first, having never been interviewed before but Jan was a real pro at this. It also helps that Dojo is an excellent host and he puts you at ease very quickly. He did an excellent job at leading us through the whole event. I do hope it will get more people interested in cockpit building, even if it's just a small panel or two. Its such a great hobby and the people you meet here on this forum are absolutely fantastic.

All you need to do is read the Users Guide for DCS-BIOS. Start here, do a little reading and then follow the link to the DCS-BIOS web site and download the latest version of DCS-BIOS. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=141096. Everything you need, in terms of knowledge, is in that document. I know that because I helped Ian by rewriting the Users Guide so people with zero programming could understand what they need to do. I do not believe there is any other way to access the info you want without being an experienced programmer. If, after reading through the documentation, you still can't figure it out, then it's time to give up as this is extremely easy to do. Good luck

i use an Arduino Pro Mini to run my stepper motors and I also employ the Accel library in my sketch. I don't use any of the acceleration or deceleration functions but the rest of the library handles the bulk of the work. That may be why you don't see much stepping action on my motors. Unfortunately I can't help much with the programing part as I'm still very much in the learning stages with Arduino code writing. I'm also using DCS-BIOS for accessing the data and that too may be a contributing factor in the performance of my gauges.

Thanks Dave. Yes the faceplates are all engraved on my CNC mill. You may have issues with torque, or lack there of, if you gear down that much. Yes, I think so too. A good test is to check yourself when your flying and see how often you look at the instruments and how long you actually stare at any one in particular. Yes. I use the VID series of stepper motors from China. Very inexpensive and they work well. They are identical in all respects to the Switec x25 motors. They are not very strong so I have to be careful where I use them. What code are you using to drive your motors? I don't have to much visible stepping but sometimes I can see a bit when its a long pointer and the the gauge moves very slowly. I attached a really crappy video I made not long ago. There are parts of the video where the motor is moving very slowly and I can't see any stepping at all. Maybe if it moved slower than that but its not to bad as it is. I wonder if its a combination of the code your using and COD with low refresh rates. Yet it should still move smoothly even if the refresh is slow. I just recently added a driver board for each motor. The Easy Driver board is only $1.50 (chinese knockoff) so it wasn't an extravagant addition by any means. But it does cut down how many pins I need for one motor by 50%. It seems like there is never enough I/O pins when you need them so this was a good move. It also gave me flexibility over the stepping rate which I can change on the fly if need be. Haven't tried that yet but it should work. Once I have my dash cut out, I'll start to install all of the gauges and then do some more testing and fine tuning. I have been waiting for the next release of DCS-BIOS (which just came out last week) to get more serious about fine tuning the motors. I'll post some (better:music_whistling:) videos once the gauges are up and running. As far as the x25 or the VID 28/60 motors, virtually all of the commercially made flight sim gauges use the same motor so I believe we made the correct choice. [ame] [/ame]

Try DCS-BIOS for the servo and you won't need the phidgets controller. Don't power the servo from the Arduino board though. The servo will use more current than the board can supply. When you see how easy DCS-BIOS is to use, you may not want to build that switch matrix after all.:smilewink:

That's was a great dissertation Dave. What motors are you using for your gauges? I've been working on the analog gauges for the A10 for some time now. With respect to the motion, are you using any drivers ICs for the stepper motors? You should be able to get smooth movement with microstepping. Also how many steps per revolution are your motors. I have motors that do 945 steps/rev and have very smooth movement. I can also make my Nema motors (200 spr) run at 8 to 16 times that with driver ICs depending on how precise and smooth the movement needs to be. If you want some ideas just have a look through my picture sites linked in my signature. Lots of pics of gauges in various states of construction.

Very nice work Clay. I guess I'm so in tune with AutoCAD nowadays that I don't see other drawing tools. But yes indeed, CamBam does a reasonable job at producing a panel drawing. That might be the best beginners scenario I've seen so far. There also appears to be enough people here on ED Using it who can assist others who are still struggling with learning it. Actually struggle may be to harsh as this is definitely one easy program to learn how to use.

I had considered the Vectric line of software way back when but as I'm a full time designer working with AutoCAD, it was what I already know and love. It was CamBam that made a big impression with me due to ease of use and cost. In fact I was using it for free for almost a year before I decided to buy it. As I recall the Vectric stuff didn't let you try it out properly before deciding if it was good for my application. That's why I didn't investigate it further. But each to his own. Whatever you are comfortable using. I will say this however, for every part I make, a huge amount of time is spent in the drawing stage. It's so nessary to make sure your drawing will turn into a functioning part when all is said and done. So much thinking and drawing/redrawing or revising is required at this particular stage . I'm in the process of designing some replacement rudder pedals for the A10 and I have been at it for almost a week now, an hour or two each day. I've just scratched the surface of this project and its all drawn/detailed in AutoCAD to three decimal places of accuracy. The reason I mention this is that the drawing package you select needs to be what you are most comfortable using only because of the amount of time you will spend just drawing stuff. I just remembered... CamBam also has drawing tools, somewhat limited but still quite adequate for drawing panels, to be sure.

And so you should be. :P I do hope you get a reasonably good machine that will perform as you would like it too. All I can suggest at this point is to start reading....:music_whistling: There is the Mach 3 manual which you need to read and understand before you do anything with your machine. You need to learn how to draw stuff...AutoCAD manual (read it). I use AutoCAD to draw my parts as you will want a .dxf file to import into your g-code conversion software. You do not need to draw them in 3D. That is going way overboard and entirely unnecessary. Your machine and the associated software will not cut it in 3d. Its actually referred to as 2.5D. Which brings me to CamBam. Buy it, use it. There is nothing else as good for beginners. Do the tutorials and read the manual. This is the order of battle: 1. Draw part in AutoCAD LT ($1000.00) and then export dxf file. 2. Open dxf file in CamBam ($150) and assign cutting depths and tooling to cut the part. Generate g-code and send file to PC that is running Mach3. 3. Open g-code in Mach3 ($200.00) and set zero. Hit "Run" or whatever that big green button is called, and watch part being cut with finger on the e-stop button ready to shut down everything in case you run the spindle head against the side of the machine or whatever. You should try and find an older PC with XP and a parallel port. It should be 100% stand alone with nothing else running on it. Not even virus protection and no internet connection. It will be 100% reliable if you do that. Opps...did I say 100%... Yup 100% reliable. Remember! Nothing else on it or running in the background... period. This machine must be used ONLY for running Mach3. BTW... ****NEVER LEAVE YOUR MACHINE WHEN RUNNING...EVER**** (not even to take a piss) Not yet, but it will be. :music_whistling::megalol: You still have a crap load of extra crap to buy. (often called tooling and accessories) As you will soon learn, buying the machine is the least expensive part of this exercise. Check those threads I linked earlier. They have all the tooling and where to buy from in them. Clay can walk you through some of it I'm sure. You also need a dial indicator, some double sided tape and several collets.. You can waste money on trying other double sided tape but in the end there is only one to use. Again, look in the other threads for it. Engraving v-bits are expensive and if you want a good job you will buy them. If you go cheap, you will soon see why your work piece looks like shit. One last point. If the cables from you CNC controller to each of the stepper motors are not shielded, replace them with shielded cable. This is extremely important. The high speed spindle will generate all sorts of EMI and that will cause your motors to mover unexpectly when you cutting a work piece. That all for now. I'm not allowed to post very much now a days. Doctors orders. I had the misfortune of having three heart attacks from Dec 20 to Feb 20. Actually, each one was on the 20th of the month. Pretty Fcked up if you ask me. Good luck and I will keep an ear to the forum. (if I'm allowed) :music_whistling:

I ultimately used Tigersharks example. It worked exactly as it should. Do a search for Tigersharks CLP matrix. He wrote a nice tutorial.

I just started playing wih the WS2812B and I am just amazed at what I can make them do using just one pin. I already have a small strip in the cockpit for the intercom panel. All the labels are green however when you mute one of the vol controls the label turns red to identify it visually.. I'm also going to use them to simulate an engine fire on either side of my seat.:thumbup: I love those things.:pilotfly:

Thank you Clay for your comments and your compliments. I am glad you could provide some input. You are really improving, I must say, based on those pics you posted. Well done. If you get a chance, try and post some more pictures of your work with a bit of a description relative to CNC. I think that could be a real benefit to those just starting out so at least they have some basic idea of feeds speeds and what you can expect to cut without issue. Think of all those broken tool bits you'd save during the first couple of weeks of operation.:smilewink:....:music_whistling: One point you mention which I forgot is that these machines also have several versions including the electronics package so it hard to know what in fact you are ultimately receiving. Michael, prior to purchasing, it might be worth while having a long conversation with Clay about his journey getting the same type machine producing acceptable results. I'm sure Clay can provide some great insight for you. I hope you have good luck with this .:) John

Michiel, if you read through those two threads I linked at the beginning of this thread (yes they are rather long:music_whistling: but) you will find answers to many of the basic questions that beginners always have. Both Tores and Clay started into CNC last year. I spent a good amount of time with both of them to get them moving in the right direction. I tried to list out all of the basics such as software, g-code conversion software, cutting tools, their diameters, feeds and speed, how to hold you work down onto the table etc. I would have a quick read through them and make a list of all the points I covered. That should help a bit and save you some time. Gadroc, I just spent a few minutes looking over UCCNC at their web site. Interesting. It looks like Mach3 with a new front end. Virtually all of the same commands, just reorganized. Its also half the price of Mach3. I'm curious now...did you notice any immediate differences between UCCNC and Mach3 that would favor one over the other. I haven't bothered to investigate new software for my CNC operation in many years only because "if it aint broke don't fix it". Also, Mach 3 has been an industry standard for a long time now. The only issue I have is that damned dependence on parallel ports. However with that said., even if "it ain't broke" I'm open to new software if it provides a possible savings in time, or ease of use, better features etc.

With respect to all the inexpensive machines on the market, all I can say is you get what you pay for. There are no shortcuts. And building one yourself is something worth considering but only after you have some experience under your belt or if you are extremely adept at mechanics. Do you know what runout is? What is backlash,why does it occur, how is it measured and how is it controlled. Where does a gantry type mill have the most flex and why? How much flex is acceptable.? Are you even familiar with the term gantry mill? Do you need 2 flute cutters or three or even four and why? When the ads say the machine has repeatability of 0.5mm, is that under load and if so what kind. Probably no load othwise that figure would be higher. It may be that this machine can only make cuts to a depth of .003" in acrylic without undue flex so yes under these conditions it's accurate but it will take 2 days to cut a part at those feeds and speeds. I know how easy it looks and it really isn't that difficult providing you have something good to start with. But how do you reengineer something you know so little about because if you did you would have already passed by these machines long ago. If you want to go cheap then I suggest you spend ALOT of time reading at CNCZone. Become completely familiar with the problems, solutions and limitations these machines have. At least you go into it armed with enough knowledge to know what to watch out for. You should also notice that most of these machines are used for milling wood. Wood is incredibly soft by comparison to most other materials and the tolerances you need for wood parts are like night and day compared with using materials such acrylic or aluminum or copper clad PCboard. i read the ad that was at the beginning of this thread and it was filled with statements about how strong, how accurate it is but it lists no actual specs. So how do you know how strong or accurate or precise or anything without specifications...minimum performance specs that you yourself can measure and verify. But the ad has lots of really pretty pictures. Even I considered buying one of these machines based on the great pictures. They are really nice looking machines. But after further investigation... Also note that all the examples pics they posted, not one was actually made with the machine in question. They couldn't even fit on the table. As to all the questions that will now start, I suggest you do not ask them here as this is not a CNC forum. Go to the CZnCZone... http://www.cnczone.com/forums/. This is the worlds largest, most comprehensive forum for CNC. Every possible machine has some discussion somewhere. That is the place to post questions. Good luck guys. CNC is a wonderful and deeply satisfying discipline. There is a moderately steep learning curve but it's not that difficult especially if you remember your high school machine shop. Just don't cut corners and always know what you buying before you buy it.

I too would like to know where you can source full sized toggle switches at $0.45 a piece. I have scoured the Internet and the best possible price I found was $1.40 apiece from a Chinese supplier. And since the A10C requires around 80 toggles I was very motivated to source a good price. So where is it that you can get switches at those prices? I also assume we are not referring to locking type toggles.

Actually, what I was intending to communicate is that,a well built, accurate CNC hobby mill will provide accurate cutting regardless of the material you are cutting into. That, in itself, allows greater possibilities. But size is not that important and in fact the larger it is the stronger it has to be. My mill has a table size of 4" x 12" and that is small by most standards. But it does the job quite well and has not limited me in making any single panel. A cheap machine with no major upgrading, no support and no one to help you figure out why its cutting 5 degree off the mark will only allow you to become frustrated and give up. Neither am I but I do want to make PCB's that work without shorting out. If you look carefully at how fine the traces can be on a PCB you will see the need for accuracy. I mean one can take a sharp hobby knife and scratch through the copper if you really want to make PCB but it won't be all that useable.:P All I'm trying to do here is inform our members as to the very real issues that come with purchasing these type of machines. It's always best to be fully informed before making a large purchase upwards of $1000. But after getting all the facts and you still want to take the chance ...go for it. All I can say is buyer beware. My dislike for these machines comes from seeing too many people totally frustrated with trying to make something it just can't make. I have seen it happen too many times and I feel bad when I see people quitting because of poor quality equipment. In your situation I would think that making PCB's via chemical etching is probably the best way to proceed. I have never had an opportunity to try it myself though so I can't comment on how successful that route will be. Maybe in the future I'll give it a go when I have a need for super fine traces on a PCB. Anyways, I wish you luck regardless of what direction you choose. John

It looks as though you are off to an excellent start Dave :thumbup:I'm looking forward to your build updates. If I might make a suggestion regarding projectors. I use a 120" flat screen and a JVC projector. Because of the quality and cost, this setup doubles as our home cinema . And since it cost over $5000.00 it needed to have dual usage or my wife would have removed certain important body parts while I slept. That said, the image quality I have is quite breath taking. One reason for that is because I was told very early on to find suppliers whose setups allowed you to do direct (almost side by side) image comparisons. Ten projectors, with a switch to pic one or another so you can see what a $500 projector can do and what a $5000 Projector can do and flip back and forth between them. There are huge disparities in quality between low end, mid range and high end($25,000) projection setups. Unfortunately they are not that apparent to see without having a direct reference to compare with. Hence the multiple projector setup. That all said, the most important part of a projector setup is actually the screen...yet most people would think it's the projector. .... Yes, the screen can destroy a good projected image. As mentioned in the preceding paragraph, being able to compare side by side is very important. My own screen is one of the higher end screens and when budgeting for this setup, the screen was given a higher priority than the projector...$3,000 for screen and $2,000 for projector. The differences in image quality are extreme to say the least and all I can really say is "seeing is definitely believing". I spent considerable amount of time and effort investigating all of the factors in projection systems. Since this was a rather large expenditure to say the least, I needed to be confident my choices were well thought out and I would be maximizing the use of a rather limited budget. So take the time and choose well. Anton, on this board, is also doing projection so you may want to talk with him to get further insight. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=155487 Dave, I was wondering about the details of the gauges you built. Do think you might be able expand upon how you built them, the motors you used, any PCB's you built and the interface used with PC, etc, so that others might be able to replicate a similar type instrument. I try and post small photo tutorials or PDF's when I can, to get people past some of the more difficult hurdles of building a particular component for the cockpit. I know it takes time to do this but if you can, it would be most appreciated. Thanks so much Dave... and keep on posting. :thumbup: We all love to see how others are progressing. John PS. I have changed my signature to include the photo sites I use to document my A10C build just in case others would like to see how I handled various cockpit parts/components.

My advice to you, having 10 years experience with CNC is to read the two threads I listed below from beginning to end. They pretty much illustrate the trials and tribulations that are indicative of purchasing "Cheap" Chinese CNC machines. It is a road I strongly recommend that you and anyone else building cockpits, avoid like the plague. Now these individuals were fortunate in that they were able to achieve, with some frustration, a reasonable degree of quality when cutting very soft materials. Unfortunately they are the exceptions. Most people just give up and chalk it up to a learning experience never to be repeated or try and resell their stuff or throw it in the trash. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138862 http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138862 Over time I expect these Chinese machines will improve but they will always be limited to very basic cutting/engraving operations because of their design...i.e. Gantry type design which by its very nature, is a weak design for any milling type operations. Cutting good quality PCBs require good quality CNC machines. There are no short cuts or cheap alternatives available. If you don't have the finances for a good machine then I would consider using the chemical etching process or a third party manufacturer. If you do purchase a good machine then you will also be able to make so many other parts. I refer you to my signature. You can see on my photo sites what a good CNC machine will enable you to accomplish. This is an example of my machines capabilities (Taig). The 5050 led is there for scale reference. The holes shown and not yet drilled are 0.03" diameter. A reasonable budget figure would be around $3000.00 not including tool bits and other nessary accessories. The mantra you need to keep repeating is "accuracy costs money". I sure hope this helps. Best of luck. John

I can't agree more. Or you could use a switch matrix for the buttons. Real easy to build. And since it would be unlikely you would ever press 2 buttons at the same time, you could eliminate the need for diodes. I plan on using an UNO as an HID device with an 8x8 matrix for the MFCD frames. Thats just 16 pins for 8 rows/8 columns. I'm also thinking about using my existing TM MFCD frames and cannibalize them for the main PCB. Then I would have the plug and play feature of the TM boards. But when you think of it, adding another board is not an issue even from a monetary perspective considering how little they cost and how much money we seem to devote to this hobby.:music_whistling: I am...or I should say I will be.:smilewink: I just haven't got that far yet. The trouble I'm having is finding displays that are large enough but also with a 4:3 aspect ratio so they don't end up stick out the sides of the MIP. These damned widescreen displays are almost the only format available nowadays unless you want to spend big bucks for semi custom screens. I also don't want to move forward on them until I actually have the screens in my hands. Once that happens it won't be long until I post pics of some fully functional, full scale MFCD's. BTW, RK, I must say that your Obutto project was what inspired me to build my cockpit. Your method of using aluminum angle extrusions and having a single post to support the assembly is very similar to how I am building my side consoles. It was a very clean, simple and cost effective solution. And considering I wasn't planning on adding sides to my cockpit, it was the perfect way to add consoles that could actually swing out of the way. I must also compliment you on your work to date. It looks great. You do very nice work.:thumbup: John

I think you made an excellent decision. PSU's from PC's are fabulous. I have a Corsair 800 watt unit for my pit as well as several other no name PSU's and they all put out nice clean regulated power and they all have short circuit protection. I've even used one for a second bench PSU to test/panels circuits. You probably saw this pic before. Its just a PSU from a PC I scrounged. I just fancied it up with some displays and a variety pf connectors. Thats an old pic during it's construction. Its all done now and it is so nice to use. https://farm1.staticflickr.com/762/23379567756_64a3555642_b.jpg' alt='23379567756_64a3555642_b.jpg'>Desktop PSU by John Wall, on Flickr[/img] However, even though you can get three flavors of voltage from these things I'm planning on using several PSU's. One for the back-lighting and one for all of the other cockpit parts. I have concerns about PWM for the backlighting having adverse effects on the other components. In response, I'm isolating the backlighting from everything else by providing it with its own PSU. John

That has to be the strongest build I have ever seen. You could actually take that to war. I am so impressed and the workmanship is first class not to mention that seat is looking so real. Well done X93355. Could you talk a bit about how you finished the metal. I assume its ALL aluminum? I didn't think paint would work well on aluminum. I've used epoxy paint on some of my firearms and it stands up well but that was always on steel. Painting aluminum is something I'm not familiar with. John

I love mine. Unfortunately I had to give up my USB headset for it because you need an outlet for a sub woofer which means using the on board sound card. But it was absolutely worth it.:thumbup:

As far as I see, you just need to get use to the pedals and stick. It just takes some time and practice. If your flying in sim mode and not game mode, the aircraft acts like a real A10 and that's something you just don,t jump in to and drive like a car. Have patience and practice a lot. Here's a summary of a typical takeoff. With just a couple of Mavericks loaded, spool engines up to 90% with breaks on, release brakes and start rolling with engines now at 100%, flaps to first position. Use nose wheel to maintain straight course down runway. Disengage nose wheel at 50kts max. You will now be using rudder to maintain direction. Slowly pull back on stick at 145kts and set your climb angle to 5 degrees when you lift off. Set flaps to 0 degrees at 170kts. You need to understand that at those low speeds and low altitude the flight controls can be rather sensitive and don't respond as when you are speed and altitude. Gain speed and altitude and then play. Just keep practicing. So what if you crash a lot at first. A10's don't cost you anything so just have fun.:thumbup:

:megalol: What can I say....:music_whistling:I like to build stuff. :D. I'll post pics as soon as I'm able but basically it's a 1" dia. X 30" long aluminum tube with a ping pong ball at each end with a bunch of green LEDs in one end and red in the other end. The high current white LEDs are at the Centre point and are being directed upwards. The glow or reflection off the walls from this contraption is just enough to let me know they are on, flashing or strobing. I don,t expect them to be in perfect sync with the screen image but it's certainly enough to create the effect and more importantly to communicate the state of the running lights when I can no longer see a virtual cockpit. I now have to figure out how to create an effect similar to an engine explosion/fire.