Warhog

Hi Tom The best material to use for professional looking results is engraving plastic. It's available in any colour. For this application I would use the matt black with bright white back. The black layer is only .0005" thick. The thickness you need is 0.0625" thick. When you engrave this material, you only need to cut .003" depth. For good backlight transmission you then need to flip it over and pocket out material on the backside anywhere there is text on the front. I go to a depth of 0.035". I'll post some pics later today.

AHH??? YAH .... OK:megalol: Please don't put ideas in my head. :lol:

I am thoroughly impressed. Besides the excellent looking cockpit that flight suit is fabulous. I am very jealous:D But I think my dog would go absolutely nuts if she saw me in that, especially with the visor in the down position.:lol: I hesitate to think what my wife would say as well.:P That said, I certainly applaud you for the level of immersion you have gone to. I don't expect to many other pilots here would take it to that level. In all honesty, I have consider going to that level as well. My real concern is how hot it would be to fly with all that gear. Looking forward to seeing more pics as you move forward.:)

Yes it sure does. BuyDisplay.com I think. Thats where mine came from and it wasn't that expensive considering how hard it is to find a display 20 characters long. There are tons of 2x16 character displays but the 2x20 is not very common at all. It also takes some creative mounting to get everything in place within the dimensions of the panel if your really anal about that kind of thing. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-20x2-Character-LCD-Module-Display-w-HD44780-Controller-Bezel-White-Backlit-/291020230914?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c2285102 I haven't been able to source them at $5.00 though. I think mine was just shy of $10.00 but I also wanted white lettering and a dark background so I could add the green acrylic bezel over top of the display to get the green display as seen in the cockpit.:)

Hi Tom You are most welcome. Its important that we help each other even it it just moral support. So keep on going. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work.:) Tom, it might be wise to back off the baud rate to 250,000 as we have had issues when you run it faster than that. When the next release of DCS-BIOS comes out it will set the baud rate to 250,000 as the default in the template sketch.

Excellent work there Tom. :thumbup: All you need now is the face plate and you are good to go. Did you have any issues with the display updating itself in the simulator? What baud rate did you use...250,000? DCS-BIOS sure makes this stuff easy to do now. Keep posting pictures as you progress Tom. I love seeing other builds and all the various techniques that people use to create panels and instruments.

Thank you both for the kind words. I just wanted to let others know that its not in the realm of impossible. Unfortunately real life often gets in the way but if you keep at it you will eventually reach your goal. Building this cockpit has been one of the most involved projects I have ever undertaken. Some days I get really down about it because I can't see the end. Its such an overwhelming task that has taken so much time yet it is still so far from completion. I wonder, in fact, whether I can actually finish it. But regardless, I have certainly made some friends here and I have had the pleasure of helping others when I can and getting help when I needed it. It surely is a fantastic community.:thumbup: John

Actually Hans, building the Standby ADI isn't very hard at all. It's all based on creating multiple levels to add stuff too. All of the acrylic plates can be made by stacking six or seven pieces of acrylic cut to the same size and clamping them down. You mark one edge to act as a registration mark for later assembly. Then drill four corner holes and one centre hole. Now when you use brass standoffs they will all align when you assemble it. Your centre hole is drilled already so if you need to enlarge it for a bearing its already partially drilled. But more important, it's already in the correct location as are all the other centre holes. Making the cradle for the rolling dive/climb angle is also not difficult. If you draw this up ahead of time and use it as a pattern you can make it from styrene and it will be strong enough and light enough to work. Its really just a matter of studying how it was made and replicating it. Thats all I did. I looked at a partially disassembled ADI to see how it was made and copied it. But I used less exotic materials and materials that I could work with. In fact, there's no reason it couldn't be built with simple styrene plastic, model airplane glue, a sharp exacto knife and patience. I know this to be true because I have built more complicated projects with just sheets of plastic and a sharp knife as you can see below. So never say never. I built this WWII Cargo vessel 6 years ago and every single part was made by me from scratch with only some plans, a lot of styrene plastic and glue and a very sharp knife. Maybe a few other small tools but no CNC, no lathe, no laser cutter or anything of that nature. Only the hull was prefabricated by someone else as I don't work with fibreglass. DSCN2342 by John Wall, on Flickr Most of the people on this forum have been at this for a while. I have only been flying for 2 1/2 years and building stuff like this for the last year. Many of these instruments were quite foreign to me so I was very much at a disadvantage compared to most everyone else. Several times after say 10 or so hours of working on a component I trashed it, started over and from the mistakes I made, I rebuilt it because I learned how to make it better by screwing up my first go at it. :) Even my fuel panel was completely rebuilt last week with better motors and a nicer display because I learned new techniques on how to make it better. My other goal besides building my A10C cockpit, a Huey cockpit , the Hornet and if they ever come out with and A6 Intruder, is to document a lot of what I am building and how I did it so I can pass on the techniques I developed... basically as payment for all that I have learned here and as a thank you for all those that took the time to teach me. John

Well this is a hoot. I made my very first EVER video today. All for a demonstration just for Adrian and the problems he's having with his altimeter. Like WOW...It was just too easy. You know whats going to happen now :smilewink: ... Hundreds of videos... by you know who.:music_whistling: ... And I thought still pictures were enough :doh:...well there not...:P....so I'm going to make more videos.:D So here it is. Nothing earth shattering but it does show my soon to be finished, Standby ADI in action(partial action that is). Its just running through a test routine to determine what kind of speed I should set for it and how it will react and sound and move and stutter (it better not stutter:mad:) so I know before hand what to set in the code. It also gives you an idea of what went into its design/construction so others can see that its not especially difficult to make yourself. :) Hope you enjoy and get something out of this little video. John

Thanks Mike Thats an excellent endorsement. I am going to build the center section first and see how it stands up. I'll mill a groove in the two main verticals for the long horizontal member that ties it all together. However, rather than glue or epoxy I am going to drill and tap it all so I can screw it together. Nothing will pop out that way. I also decided to go with .1875" thick aluminum rather than .125", thats 3/16" to the great unwashed.:P Better holding power when using no.6-32's for the whole rig. I'll be sure to post some pics as it becomes a reality.:)

Hi Clay I use a TAIG CNC mill from the US.:thumbup: Its table size is just large enough to do all but maybe 4 panels. For those panels its just a matter of cutting the top half first, flip the work piece and do the bottom half next. All things considered its a bit of a hassle but the cure is rather expensive..ie new larger mill.:( This is my baby.... Unfortunately there are very few accurate, reasonably priced CNC mills to choose from in a size that would suit our needs without you having to sell your kid or wife to pay for it. Yes there are the cheap chinese things but they lack any amount of accuracy to do ALL that's needed in building a cockpit. Its really to bad because some of them look SO NICE its hard to believe they are so problematic. But that how they suck you in.

Hi Adrian Sorry not to respond faster. Been under the weather for the last couple of days. I watched the video and can confirm that the issue is lost steps. You can hear it and see when it happens on my CNC mill although it seldom happens. But its quite evident when it does and it pretty much screws my work piece.:mad: So why does that happen: 1. Speed is set to fast. 2. Noise is being picked up from something/somewhere 3. Its driving too much weight 4. Friction...the shaft is rubbing on something. I ran some tests and made some videos because of your problem. These tests use a sketch I wrote just to determine the max speed of a stepper under its operational conditions. I set it to run at a specific speed and move it 20,000 in one direction and 20,000 steps in the opposite direction. If it doesn't stop at the same point on each set of rotations then there is a problem with lost steps. This is what I use to determine if the motor can do what I want it to do. If it can't then I move to a stronger motor such as a Nema series as you can see here. #include <AccelStepper.h> #define HALF4WIRE 8 // Motor pin definitions #define motorPin1 2 // A1 #define motorPin2 3 // A2 #define motorPin3 4 // B1 #define motorPin4 5 // B2 // Initialize with pin sequence IN1-IN3-IN2-IN4 for using the AccelStepper with 28BYJ-48 //AccelStepper stepper; // Defaults to AccelStepper::FULL4WIRE (4 pins) on 2, 3, 4, 5 AccelStepper stepper1 (HALF4WIRE, motorPin1, motorPin2, motorPin3, motorPin4, true); void setup() { stepper1.setMaxSpeed(1500.0); stepper1.setAcceleration(300.0); stepper1.setSpeed(1500); stepper1.moveTo(20000); //250 full rotations @ 48 steps each = 12,000 steps }//--(end setup )--- void loop() { //Change direction when the stepper reaches the target position if (stepper1.distanceToGo() == 0) { stepper1.moveTo(-stepper1.currentPosition()); delay(500); } stepper1.run(); } The first video illustrates the VID60 running at a speed of 2000. You see how fast it runs :surprise:. ... But it stalled.:( ........ nb: Please understand that this is my very first video ever and I need to work on composition as this vid is not very good. They will get better though. The next video shows the motor running at a speed of 1000. Its running much faster than in your demonstration video. It does 75 revolutions and ends up at the same spot in each direction. Its been running for the last 30 minutes and I haven't see any change in where it stops. This tells me no steps are lost and its fine to use this motor for this application. I never actually tried this before. I just assumed they would work based on what I saw in other forums where this motor was used successfully. Adrian, I have some ideas for you to try. I just recently wrote this test code, which you saw used in the videos I linked. But its different than the original code you are using. Its based on a half step code. That may help with your issue. So try these changes... 1. Change the code to Half4wire instead of full4wire 2. Set speed to 1000 3. Set acceleration to 300 Please report back the results. We are all wanting/trying to learn the idiosyncrasies of using stepper motors for gauges in this forum so this will be a valuable exercise and a good learning experience for all. PS. I just added this video using a VID60 motor for the drum display on the speed indicator.

Thanks Calum, Mike. @Mike...I looked at you technique with enthusiasm as I could cut every piece with the CNC mill. I just wasn't sure how sturdy the complete assembly would be when you add heavy components to it. I considered doing it from .125" , with dados for all the verticals and drill, tap and screw all the joints instead of glue. So this assembly doesn't wobble or flex as you built it Mike? John

Hi Calum It looks like the frame for you MIP is cut from plywood... probably 3/8"? Is that correct. I'm getting close to needing a frame cut to size as most of my instruments are complete or close to completion. But I have been waffling as to what material I should use. If I use aluminum it gets expensive and I can't cut that on my mill. Its just too large. Plywood could work but I'm unsure as to the amount of flexing that may occur due to the weight of all the components. The real ADI and HSI that I'm using weighs in quite a bit. At least I can cut plywood in my shop. Not sure about using any other materials. Whats your opinion now that you have your frame in place. John

Yah, Autodesk has pissed me off royally. :mad: Now they demand you rent AutoCAD. Monthly or yearly payments to keep it operational. No more just buying and forgetting. I have a real hate on for that company even though I have been using it everyday for 23 years. It's just plain old corporate greed at it best. Wait til Microsoft starts doing the same thing now that they have us by the short and curlies.:mad: Weeb, I used a 20x2 and got it to fit. I had to move the display to the right and use low profile switches for the two that are directly beside it. Is the CMSP finished or still a WIP?

:lol::lol::lol: Thanks Weeb. I understand now. Just hit me like a kick in the nuts...:megalol: I must say the expressions one hears from having access to so many different countries and cultures, its sometimes just boogles the mind how we are ever able to understand each other without actually having spent time in each place to learn the language. BTW Weeb, are you all heeled up and out of the hospital by now??? John

Mike, I was reading this on your web site and I was just about to ask you for some details. As Ian mentioned, he and I are looking at integrating a real A10 HSI into my cockpit. I also have an real ADI but due to some wiring issues it will need to be driven with stepper motors. I look forward to seeing this develop. :) And thank you for your initiative Mike. This will be a big help to many of us.

I want to know what a bollock is. :P

I have been wondering about the affects of acceleration and deceleration lately as I'm working on several gauges at the moment. In a situation like CNC, accel/decel is required because you are generally moving from a stopped position to another fixed point and then doing an operation. In a gauge like an altimeter or VVI, the pointer is always moving to a new position but it never really stops at that position because another new position is sent from the simulator. Its always in a state of motion so why would you need to accelerate to another position. In fact it should move (accelerate) at the same rate as the gauge in the simulation. Now think about this for a minute...the gauges in the simulator already simulated acceleration or deceleration. If they didn't, their movement would look rather odd. All we are doing is repeating exactly what those gauges do. If they start moving slowly and speed up, the DCS-BIOS export values reflect this and our gauges repeat the same motion at virtually the same time. So why do we need to include an acceleration factor in the code. The critical value as I see it is "speed" and setting the speed close to maximum will allow our motors to move as fast as the simulators gauge is moving. Right now the gauge is being held back by a governor... the max speed you set in the code. If you don't let the motor move as fast as the simulators gauge it will always lag behind instead of following the motion of the simulator. I would also reason that if one did in fact introduce acceleration into the code then you would, in fact, be altering values that are coming from the simulator to match whatever the acceleration tables generate. The point to remember here is that our gauges are there just to repeat exactly what we would see in the cockpit as to the speed of the pointer and its position and its acceleration or deceleration etc. All that has already been factored in to what you see in the cockpit to make it look real. There is no need to have it recalculated again. And that's my story and I'm stickin too it.:smilewink:

I can not find a data sheet for this motor but as its close to the the VID28 series maybe we can use that as a rough guide. The max speed is 500 Hz but the data sheets suggests it be run at 200Hz for increased longevity. I believe that translates to 2000 for the setMaxSpeed in the code. I would be careful and only increase in small increments as there is no confirmation as to Max Speed of this motor and you don't want to fry it. Can anyone else verify this data??? BTW Adrian, congratulations on getting the Altimeter up and running. Well done :thumbup:

I don't think that's it Calum. I have had that little motor just screamin so I don't think speed is an issue. I think it has to do with something in the code or the lack thereof. I expect Ian will be able to decipher that much better than myself. I do have a question though... Adrian which shaft did you use on the VID60, the inner shaft or the outer plastic shaft. One shaft is used for the minute hand and the other for the hour hand. This motor was originally designed to run a clock.

Like WOW Calum. :shocking: You really made a dent in things didn't you. Know wonder we haven't heard from you in a while. Sneaking around building cockpit thingys while the rest of us are sittin on our duff (not me though:smilewink:) shooting the shit about stuff that doesn't really matter.:lol: Really nice job there my friend.:thumbup: Keep those pictures rolling in.

I don't think it is a matter of compromise Anton. I think you will find that the washed out look is relative to the amount of external lght bleed you have in the viewing area. However, the quality of the projector and the quality of the screen greatly influence this as well. I have a totally blacked out room with a 120" diagonal screen. The resulting image is as vibrant and rich as the image quality from the 27" monitor I use for photo editing. Even the lower end projectors will provide really good picture quality if the viewing area is devoid of all external light. If you we're to come visit me, I guarantee that after flying my rig for 5 minutes your wife would not be very happy with me.:music_whistling:

Mr. Burns, reverse cutting requires the use of registration holes. I always mill a .125" diameter hole somewhere on the workpiece. When cutting the first side you can establish your zero points wherever you want. When you cut the backside you need to first, create your g-code file using that hole as you your zero point, then use a .125 steel pin in your collet and set your zero point on the mill. Doesn't matter where as long as you have room for the milling operation. You then move your work piece into position under that steel pin and when they are lined up perfectly you have your work at zero and you can start cutting. I tend to push my workpiece into the pin and drop it down to the table as I use double sided tape so it hard to slide the workpiece around. Another more complicated method is to set 4 steel pins at each corner of your table. Before doing anything else,you cut 4 holes in your workpiece the same diameter of your pins. With the pins fixed to the table you can now drop you workpiece down on to these pins. This allows you to flip the workpiece easily. The caveat is your zero point must be at the centre of the 4 pins and when you work out your g-code file you must centre your drawing at the same point. Think of it this way. The zero point on your drawing should allow you to mirror the drawing using the zero point and it should register perfectly regardless if it's back or front view. Was that clear enough? I can get into more detail if you need it. Btw, the accuracy of your machine will dictate whether in fact you can do this. You must have excellent repeatability, otherwise you will never get your registration to be accurate enough to do this reverse cutting operation with any degree of success.

Ky, what is the issue with the regular encoders we use ...is it the width of the body in that you cannot fit them side by side or is it something else? John