Warhog

Found this for you... Found it here... http://sourceforge.net/p/project-open/support-requests/39/ Hope it helps.

Thank you. I tend to be a bit of a perfectionist which can be a bad thing at times.:music_whistling: This place has a great assortment of parts http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-50-styles-Plastic-Gears-All-The-Module-0-5-Robot-Parts-for-DIY-Necessary-/150977314960 but any of the robotics stores will have a good inventory of gears and axles. I bought a rather large assortment so I could do almost anything I needed to without constantly ordering different sets of gears. Also get a supply of 2mm dia axles at the same time. BTW, the panels were cut on a TAIG CNC mill.

As Gadroc has said you will need to incorporate gearing as I have done in the following pic. BTW, most small hobby servos have a swing of 180 degrees. If you use a 1:2 gear ratio you will get the 360 degree swing you need. This is the rear of the Fuel Panel So you have 2 pointers that move in opposite directions and then the hydraulic gauge indicators above. They have 360 degree swing so I have used the same type of gearing for those servos as well. This is a high res image so click on it and see the detailing of the gears. If you choose a ratio of 3:1 or better then you have lots of maneuvering room and you can adjust the amount of swing in the sketch. I just did that last night to do the final calibration of the Flaps Gauge. The overall swing was way to much and I just set the swing to a lower amount to compensate. Since I had to show off the messy side of the panel I guess you should see what it looks like finished (almost finished that is):doh: I'm using stepper motors for the EMI and they only provide for 316 degrees which is insufficient for that fan gauge. So I will need to use gearing to bring that up to the necessary rotation that is required for the fan. I hope this helps as its virtually the only way you can do this without over complicating the project.

Janis, I think once you spend just a little time reading up on the basics of using Arduino boards you will be more than excited and overwhelmed. I think you will be extremely satisfied. You see one of the major stumbling blocks in building panels has not been in the fabrication of panels or the wiring of switches Not even the interfacing with DCS. All of that has been available for some time. With some research you can find lots of ways to make your connection to DCS albeit sometimes rather crudely. What DCS-BIOS gives you is that same ability but with a much easy means of implementing it and it takes it one major step further. It gives you the ability to use LED indicators (say: landing gear panel lights) , LCD displays ( say: CMSP panel) rotary encoders and servos or stepper motors for gauges. It has the means of doing EVERYTHING that is in the cockpit. But I only want a couple of switches you say... That's how it always starts.:music_whistling: But that's just my very biased opinion.:)

Have you ever considered using an airbrush and Tamiya model paint. Both are available at hobby stores. The Iwata Brand of airbrushes are really easy to use and clean. This is what I use... http://www.iwata-medea.com/products/iwata-airbrushes/eclipse/hp-bcs/ An airbrush gives you very precise control over how much paint you apply and the thickness of each layer. It makes the fiinished product so much better than using rattle cans. And when using an airbrush you have available a huge selection of good quality model paints by Tamiya or Modelmaster. Your choice of colours is so much greater. For instance, lots of panel parts need to be painted flat black but in fact there are several colors of flat black, all a little different. For cockpit parts I use Modelmaster aircraft interior black which is the matching black for what we are doing apposed to just plain old flat black. That small difference in color is quite astonishing. Anyways, it's something to chew on.:)

Keep at it Anton. Your getting close. Backlighting is a tricky thing. I am still experimenting with different approaches that are relatively easy to implement but more importantly cost effective. As a matter of fact I just trashed the NMSP Korry switches I made. After all of that time and effort they just were not up to my standards of acceptable backlighting. I just finished rebuilding them and I finally have backlighting that looks great for that particular component.:) Anton, how are you applying the paint and what kind of paint are you using for the push buttons?

Well I see you used my method to convince your wife..."but honey, we can watch movies on it just like at the cinema and think of the money it would save us." ...and I can use it for DCS when were not watching movies.:smartass: :lol: Worked for me...:thumbup:

I see you have an interface board already so this might not mean too much at the moment but why don't you look into DCS-BIOS to deal with this problem. Its the first sticky in this section. I am amazed at how easy it is to setup commands very much like what your trying to accomplish except its stupidly easy to do. So much so that I am rebuilding my cockpit with BCS-BIOS and Arduino boards and dumping all my old interface boards. I just thought you might be interested looking at a new and easier way. Using lua is not my idea of having fun.:pilotfly:

Hey CrackerJack Take a look at my location beneath my avatar. :music_whistling: Notice anything unusual? :bye_2:

Ok. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138740

I was asked to illustrate some backlighting techniques that I am using on several parts of my cockpit build. The CDU, CMSP and NMSP are panels under construction at the moment I have recorded the various stages of development. So on to the backlighting. I did my backlighting for the CDU as follows. I think it works really well. Unfortunately the photos don't come close to doing it proper justice. Start with a PCB and tactile switches in place. The switches were chosen for the long posts as they become important as we move along. Keep in mind that I designed everything in AutoCAD before hand and I use a CNC mill to cut everything. The designed incorporated several layers of boards. After the initial PCB with the tactile switches in place I then make another PCB just for the LEDS. It registers tight to the first PCB and only the tactile switch "POSTS" protrude. Having the LEDS on a separate board does make it easier to assemble as it could get rather crowded doing it all on one board. This next piece, the acrylic sheet, allows just a bit of the post top to protrude through. When a post is depressed all the way down it is actually flush with the top of the acrylic. So just the "active length" of the post is visible. This is just a closer look at the acrylic sheet and you can see how it functions. I pocket out areas on the reverse side to allow for the height of the LEDS so they don't interfere with it sitting tight to the PCB. This pic shows the next piece in this sandwich of parts. It's the acrylic sheet that holds the actual engraved buttons in place. As you can see, the buttons have a lip to hold them from coming out of the CDU. I have pocketed out an area beyond each button hole just deep enough to permit the bottom of the button to sit flush with the underside of the acrylic. This plate with all its buttons in place then sits on top of the previous acrylic piece. Notice the white strips on the underside of the acrylic. They act as shims to hold this button filled plate just high enough so the posts make contact with the underside of the button and still have the needed space to allow the button/post to be depressed. The push buttons themselves are made from white styrene plastic, around .3" thick. The plastic is first painted and then engraved. Then the whole thing is flipped upside down and hollowed out with the mill. I do this to ensure good light penetration to the underside of the engraved button top. Each push button has a clear cube of acrylic placed inside it to act as the bottom of the button so it will make contact with the tactile switch post. I could have used a solid acrylic button instead of all this hollowing out business and then adding some acrylic cube to it... bit I like the feel of styrene buttons:animals_bunny:. Acrylic buttons just feel to hard. This next pic shows it lit up but I do not have the push buttons installed yet. I just wanted to see how it looked in terms of lighting. I am going no further on this project until I have found a decent display for it. Then I will make the required cutout for the additional buttons and the display. And finally, the face-plate and buttons all in place and the backlighting turned on. It really is sad that I can't get a picture that actually shows how good the backlighting turned out It may appear as really finicky...all of those pieces to make, but with a CNC mill its pretty much sit back and watch as things get cut to exactly the correct size. Then you just put it together as if it were a kit. The effort is in the design time and ensuring everything is properly registered and no critical overlaps of unforeseen parts. Next.... When I built the NMSP and the CMSP I used individual circuit boards for each button or a strip PCB. This is what I constructed to allow good backlighting.. First I designed and cut a PCB for the switch. The ones in the pictures are a little wide. I had lots of room so I could screw each one in place. The basic concept was to build an extension of the post around a fixed LED. The LED could sit in the middle of this extension post and not be affected by the movement of the push buttons. The next part was to cut a 0.02" thick piece of plastic sheet 5mm x 5mm and then glued it to the top of the post of a tactile switch. I then cut 2 small blocks of 0.06"x 0.06"x 5mm long plastic strip and they were glued on to each side of the 5x5mm plate I just finished gluing to the tactile switch post. That little structure will ensure contact is made with the underside of the button. Between those two pieces of plastic is an LED fixed to a circuit board. These are all of the pieces I use to make this happen. For the actual engraved button, I use exactly the same technique as with the CDU above. Hollowed out styrene with an acrylic block inside it. I take a 3528 LED and with a sharp blade I bend the tabs out from the bottom as in the sketch I drew. Then its just a matter of soldering on a couple of stiff pieces of bare solid core wire to act as the supports for the LED. There are holes in the PCB next to the switch body for the support wires. I just drop it into place so it sits nicely on top of the plastic plate and between the two little blocks. Thats the position it gets soldered. The plastic parts move as the switch is depressed. They are the link between the underside of the button and the top of the switch post. The LED is fixed to the PCB and it remains stationary and is not impacted by any movement. And of course the key to all of this is using the same buttons as I did for the CDU (hollowed out with acrylic block inside) or a plane solid acrylic button that's been painted except for the underside. Light penetration is excellent in both cases. Here is the backside of the CMSP and the backlit push buttons installed. Guess you might as well see the front although I don't have it turned on in this pic. And then there is the NMSP where I used this technique to simulate Korry switches. You can see how I bent out the tabs on the LED to solder on to. And the front. Same as the last one. No lighting on. Sorry. But the backlighting turned out very nice. And that my friends is how I do my backlighting. I hope that you get some new ideas from this on how you can do something similar or totally different, in which case you will need to post you ideas as well. Thanks for reading.

Peter I made them from Tact switches. Each one. Took a bit of time but its just repetitive work. once you make a little jig to cut the pieces it goes really fast. I'll PM you with the details as I don't want to hijack his thread

When I was making my NMSP I turned out a few switch tops on my lathe. Fast, easy little side project. This is the only pic I have right now mixed in with a bunch of other parts i was making at the time. You need to make a little jig to hold the toggles and the switch tops in alignment while the epoxy sets up or they look a little funny when they're sitting in a panel. Also, for the mushroom switch tops, you need to make the sidewall as thin as possible much as I did above. Otherwise they look a bit odd as they appear out of proportion. It just occurred to me as I was looking at your pics again that one could also fabricate the bottom part of that type of switch if you used the mini toggles. You have a switch top for a mini toggle in your pics and that's what made me think of it. It probably would not work with a full sized toggle as it would end up being way too large but the mini toggles are small enough to accommodate a cover such I am thinking of.

Ian, the above statement is a testament to the fact that your DCS-BIOS has broken the barrier. If you recall a conversation we had many months ago that novice cockpit builders can usually find ways to make switches and buttons work without too much trouble. It was always the displays that ended up being the barrier. From the perspective of a novice cockpit builder like myself, making that part of the cockpit functional was not only extremely problematic it was a barrier which most of us could not break. It was also the point where many just gave up, being satisfied that at least we could make a switch work ...until of course ED broke it with another update:cry:. You, my friend, with DCS-BIOS in hand has given us all the ability to break that barrier and remove the frustrations we have all had. GOOdnights statement above is the defining moment when the entire cockpit becomes completely open and available to all of us regardless of how little background one has in electronics or programming. Now anyone who has the motivation, the money and an extremely unbalanced mental condition:huh: can realize their dreams of a fully functional cockpit. And that is all because of your caring and dedication to this community. I, personally,would like to thank you so very much for everything you've done and all that you have contributed towards making DCS so much more emmersive than anything I have ever seen in the past. Thank you Ian.:)

I have an Acer 23 touchscreen in my present cockpit. It works quite wll with Helios. My recommendation would be to go as large as you can afford. There are some nice profiles already made up that you can download. If you spend some time in the cockpit builders section you can find all sorts of interesting ways of doing what you want. There is the iPad CDU screen as well. Pick up a used first gen iPad and download the CDU app for it. And then there is DCS-BIOS. Build a real CDU and use DCS-BIOS to extract the CDU text so you can put it on the 3.5" screen. Check out the threads on exporting the CDU to another screen. Peters Multi Monitors for Dummies write up is a good place to start. There's lots of info here. Just spend some time using the search function. You'll be pleasantly surprised at what you will find.:)

When you ask your doctor for "Go Pills" to keep you alert so you can fly missions non stop 24-7 and he sends you to a shrink.:pilotfly:

Never tried it with aluminum Peter. Brass tubing has always been my choice for small components. Aluminum in that diameter doesn't have the same strength as brass and its a gummy metal to work with (as in very soft). Actually I just tried it while reading your post and it was difficult to get the crimp just right. Brass is much easier to work with and its also available at most hobby stores in almost any small diameter.

Another tip for you Peter and everyone else who may be installing Vid stepper motors, I use brass tubing with an inside diameter equal to the outside diameter of the motor shaft. I expect most use that method. But instead of gluing the tube on to the shaft, I place it in a small vice and apply some compression to the first .2" of the tube. Not too much or you'll flatten the tube. It takes a little practice. It's basically creating a crimp. Now when you slide the tube on to the motor shaft there is resistance. By creating a crimp instead of gluing the tube to the shaft it allows you the ability to adjust the needles position. It's also strong enough to hold it in place during normal operations. And it let's you pull it off if you need to work on the gauge. Most importantly though, it keeps ca glue from getting into the motor:music_whistling::smilewink:.

Anton, because the CDU is such a prominent feature in the cockpit, the method of backlighting that you employ will have a huge impact on the visual component of your cockpit. I spent many nights looking at various solutions. What I finally decided upon required a lot more effort but in the end it was worth the extra time and money (not so much money). The final result looked really good. This thread illustrates how I implemented the backlighting. (scroll down halfway) https://www.combined-ops-group.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1341 I used 3528 SMD LEDs which can be purchased for almost nothing if you buy Chinese. Unfortunately, I can't show you a pic of it completely assembled because I haven't found a suitable display yet. Ian's DCS-BIOS has made me rethink the selection of displays that I could use considering I no longer need to rely on a graphics card output to display the CDU text. Anyways, it gives you another option to consider and maybe even spark some new ideas or completely different approach.:). Good luck with it. Looking forward to seeing your pics when its complete.

Sure there is. Its just that the market is to small to support mass production.:(

If I could offer a little trick...I use an ultra thin ca glue and let it wick into the places I want it to go. The trick to getting it into the precise location and to use just a tiny amount so it doesn't flow into places that could cause aggravation is to use a diabetic syringe. They cost maybe $6.00 for ten of them at most drug stores and they usually only last for a couple of applications. I save up all the things that need gluing and then do them all at the same time to get more use out of one syringe. But they can last a day or two. Thing is they allow extremely precise control over where and how much glue is used. They have become an indispensable part of my inventory.

When I started cockpit building last year I couldn't solder to save my life. I now can solder SMD components at half the standard pitch. Why?. I Use the correct tools and several YouTube videos explained the required technique. It's amazingly easy once you've been shown how to do it and you have the correct tools to start with...a decent soldering station, fine wedge tips, the correct solder, solder wick and a decent large magnifier. My point here is soldering is really easy to do. Mechanical attachment systems are never as good as solder joints so don't let soldering scare you from using a better way to build electronic devices. You will be amazed and shocked at the how easy it was to go from 'solder mess' to pristine solder joints in under 30 minutes. And this is all because you watched a couple of 10 min videos and bought the correct tools for the job.:thumbup:

You mean your not going to build the second hand with 60 LEDs using a 7219 to run it.:megalol: I shouldn't make a joke about that because I think I'm going to try it. See attached PDF. Its a challenge to be sure. Its more about getting the effect just right. BTW, the clock info is available through Ians DCS-BIOS so you can have your clock synced to the sim. Thats what I'm planning. Love the compass:thumbup: I guess I'm going to have to make one, now that I've seen how cool it actually looks in real life. Well done Peter. I was interested in your comment about the VID's loss of torque after dismantling it. Any ideas what might have been the reason for that. One more quick question for you. Your driving the stepper directly from the Arduino. I know it only draws 20mA at idle but have you checked to see what the increase in current is when its pushing the compass rose? Just curious if its getting close to 40mA's. CLOCK LED LAYOUT.pdf

For basic electronic components including Arduino boards I buy Chinese. Never an issue with price, quality or shipping. For select items such as rotary selector switches with specific angles of rotation and positions or specialty switches I use Digikey also. Super fast delivery and the price is of no concern because I NEED that part. But the savings in buying Chinese is unbelievable.:)

This guys is dreamin with those prices. I almost :puke:when I saw a single strip panel maybe 1.5" x 6" long for $85.00. Not even back lit, just a single piece of plastic with a few words engraved on it. And then there is the whole quality thing. One panel has switch holes with an engraved circle around each hole except the circles and the holes don't line up with each other properly:doh:. If I made that panel I would have thrown it out and started over.:disgust: :no_sad: I know everyone is free to ask whatever they want for their product but it really gets my blood pressure up to see stuff like that. And of course that just my opinion. We are all free to buy and sell whatever we want at whatever price we want.