Warhog

Its kind of a secret Calum. Its a technique that I have spent literally decades developing. I think I am the only one (possibly worldwide) who knows this technique and how to do it correctly. I hate to just give away trade secrets Calum. Now if would consider donating large sums of money I will tell you. BUT....you also need to sign a non disclosure form as I don't want just any riffraff using this without my explicit approval and possibly a large monetary donation. I know your good for it so if your ready??..................... :P Thick Cynoacrylate from a tube.:pilotfly:

Hey Calum Looks really good. You are doing quite the outstanding job there my friend. Is that a real ADI or a place holder pic until the real one arrives? Looking forward to more pics as you progress.:thumbup:

Close but no cigar. Starting with the engraved faceplate and working back is: Engraving plastic .06" Acrylic mid plate .118" Acrylic back plate .118" box structure made from .06" Styrene plastic. I don't use aluminum anywhere. Here are a few quick and dirty pics to illustrate what I am referring to. These are the basic panel structure ...and this is another panel with the light box separated from the panel itself. ...another panel with the light box attached: ...still a WIP . ...and a side on shot. It makes for a nice clean build. I haven't done any painting on this panel yet. You need to deal with the light leaks as with all panels regardless of construction techniques but it does show you how well the light is distributed throughout. Its not always perfect so once in a while a few extra LEDs are needed to fill in dead spots. Another important part of cutting your panel faceplates is that you mill the backside to a depth of around 0.035" wherever there is engraving. The plastic essentially blocks all light but when you pocket out the areas with text it glows through quite nicely. This shot illustrates where I have removed material from the back of the faceplate. That's essentially how I build my panels. Everyone here employs a variety of methods depending on what you wish to produce as an end product. These are the LEDs I recently purchased. http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-SMD-5050-300LEDS-60LEDS-M-not-waterproof-Green-LED-Strip-5M-/301107557223?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461b68b367 They are just great for lighting. You can cut them in small lengths. They have cut marks set into the strip. They use 12v with very little current draw. Spend some time exploring electronic components from China. Very inexpensive. I couldn't have afforded what I have built so far if not for the cost saving from buying Chinese components.

After cutting over 60 or so acrylic plates and 20 panel faceplates, experience has demonstrated that a 1/16" 2 flute HSS end mill i(1/8" shank) is the preferred means of milling both acrylic and engraving plastic with a max cutting increment of 0.02". Not sure of my feed rate but I'll get back to you on that. There are also times when a 1/8" end mill is desirable but not very often. That's all you need for cutting. As far as spindle speed, most of your cutting will be slower so use your fastest speed and try some acrylic. I think you will find it to be fine. For engraving you may just need to reduce feed rate to compensate for the slower spindle speed. Try it out before you get into major alterations. You may be Ok. The up cuts are a good idea but can they be had at 1/16"? Don't expect to use larger diameter end mills for panels unless you have a way to make tool chanes automatically. The 1/16" will do all of your hole cutting including all of the 0.093" or 0.098" holes you will need that will eventually be tapped for 6-32 or 3mm x.5 threads. I use 6-32 on faceplates and 3mm x.5 on the backside for the metric standoffs I buy in bulk from China. You can eliminate the need to paint if you try this type of backlight. I enclose each panel with a simple open ended box that is glued to the back of the panel. The rear plate of this box is attached with screws to allow access for servicing or repair. It's made of bright white .06" styrene. I then user those 12v strip LEDs that you can cut into preset lengths which are fixed to the inside of this rear plate. The led strips have an adhesive backing so it makes them easy to attach. This white box coupled with the clear acrylic and the white back of the engraving plastic provides excellent backlighting due to their combined reflective qualities. It really helps to even out the backlighting. I'll post some pictures of examples for you later when I'm at my PC. Btw, as much as I buy many of my supplies and electronic components incuding milling accesories from China, I would be highly suspect of buying end mills or any tooling from them. I bought a ten pack of carbide PCB cutters which were garbage...absolute crap. That may not be representative but I fear it is very possible. Hope that helps you. John

If you have CNC milling capabilities and are going to use it for engraving why would you not use engraving plastic as apposed to painting acrylic white and then black and then trying to just remove just the black so only the white shows. To me it would seem to be a long and drawn out process whereas engraving plastic works really really well as one would expect. It also cuts much finer than you can achieve with acrylic and its easier on your tooling. I was amazed at the fact "acrylic" can actually dull a steel carbide end mill. This is what you can expect from engraving plastic. I think this is "Romark" matte black on bright white. It comes in thicknesses of .022" and .06". I use the .06" for almost everything. The thin stuff I used for the engine gauges as you can see below. That was cut with a .125" diameter 0.010" tip 60 degree carbide engraving cutter at a depth of 0.003". In these applications I use either double sided tape to hold it in place or a pocket the acrylic backing plate to a depth of .02" so the faceplate just drops into position. The cutter was purchased from: https://www.2linc.com/engraving_tools.htm.

Blooze...you dirty old man... Where did you find that fine looking A10 model. And why do you have a picture of my wife.:mad: :megalol: Are you still flying my friend?

X93355, you really have a gift when it comes to metal working and art. Your coffee table is a wonderful example of that talent. It appears you also work in the boating industry...making boats or repairing? It looks like you have lots of room to play. When you start to make panels for your cockpit you may want to pay particular attention to how they will be back-lit especially if you plan to use aluminium. I might suggest a combination of materials using aluminum as your back plate, clear acrylic for the middle and a laminate engraving plastic (black front, white back) as your faceplate. I have used acrylic for both back and mid plates to ensure the best possible transmission of lighting from behind the panel. I'm sure when you do some research in the forum you will find a variety of techniques that may appeal to you. It really just depends on what you expect from your final product. I'm looking forward to seeing more pictures of your build as it takes shape.:thumbup:

Thats a beautiful piece of engineering you have there Anton. I have been thinking about my pedals as well. I will, at some point, replace mine with something home built. I have the essentials... good thrust bearings, and a pile of other bearings that I will be using throughout. I think using bearings everywhere and Hall sensors is the key to good pedals. Let me know how you make out with the dampers. All I found were really expensive ones. John

I'm not sure if any one has told you...the ejection seat isn't suppose to REALLY WORK. :music_whistling: I does look extremely well made... most impressive. I guess some kind of large hatch in your roof would be next. You don't want to keep repairing the ceiling every time you eject.:lol:

Peter you simply amaze me... and I thought I needed help :lol: Holy crap man, where do you get the time. I mean I spend every waking moment doing at least something to my pit and after 8 months steady I'm still at it. All I can say is "well done my friend" you are a star. :thumbup: No one here is ever going to achieve all that you have. And thank you so much for the information. That was an excellent start. I should have everything sorted by the weekend I expect. Unbelievable....:pilotfly:

The photo you posted...is that a real radio or one of the 80% you've finished. If its your build, it looks really nice and well worn. It couln't get more authentic...unless of course it is a real panel. Can we see more pics of your work? My next pit is also a Huey.:smilewink:

Yes, thanks Peter. I have actually been looking at photo interrupters to set zero. How large is the disk they use in the Vid stepper? I am thinking I'll just build my own. John

Your getting to old for that shit my friend. Just take it easy and get well. And your right, time to catch up on all that reading you've been putting off. Be well. Talk to you soon. John

Holy shyte man. That amount of aluminum must have cost a fortune. I love it but I could never afford (read:wife would never allow) to do that.:smilewink:

Oh! ...:shocking: Been there/done that ...don't like it. Hope it's not serious weeb.

I assume your making reference to the HSI. Thats an excellent way to handle the precision needed. Once I get it somewhat dismantled I'll be able to assess how precise each pointer will need to be. With the export values coming out of DCS I will have between 0 and 65,350 which I'll map to whatever resolution will make the pointers behave as required and then match a stepper motor/gearing to it. The mechanical side of this venture will certainly be a challenge for me. The software side is already covered by a master programmer, Ian of DCS-BIOS fame. I have complete faith in his abilities to make the software work...its the mechanical part that worries me. But as I said, it's a challenge and I love a challenge. In reference to the heat issue, I'm aware of the heat steppers produce. The design of steppers inherently causes a great deal of heat. The Nema 23 steppers on my CNC mill get so hot, especially at idle, that you cannot touch them. Apparently thats perfectly normal. I added fans to them none the less. Towsim, if you have any further incite on converting "real to sim" please post them. I would appreciate all the input I can get especially from someone whose has already been through this process. I think I will start a thread on this later today so I keep the HSI project separate from this thread. I would like to share this conversion with the rest of the community. I'm sure a few people here will like to see how it can be done and then do the same for their cockpits.

weeb...I have attached 2 PDF's with a number of pictures of this board in various stages of construction. The PCB is also attached. You should know that I have not done a complete test of this circuit yet. At most I hooked up the four indicators I built for the dash and tried them and they worked fine. These are what I used for my test in conjunction with DCS-BIOS and an Arduino Pro Mini. It worked beautifully. Nothing got hot, no blue smoke, no smell and no fire. :smilewink: I post this information for reference only. If you copy it and use it, you take full responsibility if it explodes and your house burns downs. :( :music_whistling: :lol: On a more serious note, I do suggest you understand the circuit before you do anything more with it. Essentially i have taken one pin from the Arduino board over to the gate of the MOFSET. When that pin goes high it sends 5V to the MOFSET which allows current to flow from drain to source. The header pins on the board pick up the LEDS I use. I send 12V+ to the LED through one of the header pins to the anode of the LED (indicator). The cathode of the LED has the current limiting resistor on it and that is then attached to the other header pin which is attached to the drain. When 5V is applied to the Gate, the circuit is closed and the LEDs turn on. Thats how its suppose to work and so far it has tested fine with those indicators. I haven't tried it with all of the indicators attached but I see no reason why it shouldn't work with everything connected. If anyone sees a problem please let me know. I hope you find this useful.

Thank you all for the kind words and praise. This really is my first time building what I would consider a more precision type of instrument. Here's a few more pics at different angles. This shot is before I installed the gear, side motor and slip ring for wiring. @Boltz...I had a couple of those same motors in my "soon to try" box. So I tried that motor last week and it definitely had the torque I needed. The problem was, I just couldn't get it moving fast enough. I set it to max rpm but in the end it just couldn't keep up. It was too bad because it wasn't expensive and it was a good fit. @Mike...I had expected I'd require a driver for anything beyond these little VID and Switec motors and I actually bought a supply of darlington arrays just in case. Thats a good point about backlash. It was always a critical part of milling operations but I never considered it when applied to a/c instruments. In that light it would be more appropriate to consider direct drive motors with an optical zero setting device. I'm just a bit concerned with the size of these motors. Something in the order of 1" diameter would be preferable. But if I could find a small can motor with minimal backlash, that would work as well. Size and weight need to be minimized as much as possible. Too much weight and I may not get off the ground...:music_whistling: BTW Mike, if you do have something in your junk box that's small, I would be interested in it if it would indeed provide sufficient rpm to meet the speed requirements for the ADI. ************************************************************************** On a different, although possibly similar note, I will be needing a variety of small, high torque stepper motors for a new project I am starting. The HSI has been one of those instruments I put out of my mind because I just couldn't conceive of building something that complex. In fact, it had been quite troubling considering the effort I have gone to for all of my other instruments/panels. In the end the HSI would probably end up being a glass instrument. Certainly not in keeping with what I will have built myself. Well not anymore (maybe). I bought one...a real HSI for $25.00. Ian has been so gracious as to help me with this project as I expect the programming will be way beyond my very limited abilities. I will be maintaining a photo journal on its progress. I won't go into any detail on this yet but I though you might enjoy some pictures of it. I will start a thread on this project when it starts moving forward. All I can say is that its from a 737 so its not an exact replica. But it has many of the functions of the A10C HSI so we will try to integrate everything that's there into DCS and if its not there then we will see if we can add it ourselves. Thats it for now. And Mike, let me know if you have anything that might fit, and if anyone else has possible solutions to my ADI problem please post them.

I'd say you were off to an excellent start Clay. Still lots to do which is good. Don't be afraid to post close ups of your wrk. And please don't think you need to compare your work with others. What's most important is it lets everyone see how problems are solved. We each have different ways of doing things with the resources we have at our disposal. Not everyone wants an exact duplicate panel either. By sharing like this, it lets others develop ideas and techniques that get passed on to help those with similar needs and resources. In the end, you have a forum that generates "ideas" by sharing results. Keep up the good work Clay. Looking forward to more pics.:)

OR you can try this. I needed to light all of the indicators from one Pro Mini and many LEDS were of a much higher power than the board could handle so I elected to do this: You must realize that most of this (electronics) is new to me and I am on a learning binge. My solution was to use logic level MOFSETs (30N06L) to act as a switch for every LED indicator that the A10C has including AOA indexer, AAR Status indicator, Guns, Nose Wheel, Beacon, Canopy, Fire and the list goes on. One pin per indicator on the Arduino board, 12v in for the indicators, header pins to attach each indicator and everything labelled on the board in case I forget. What do I mean "in case I forget" ... when I forget. Its an easy circuit and if any one wants a copy I can put a PDF up.

I bought 10 7219 for $5.00.... Chinese, but they are still 7219 and they work great. Plus free shipping. :music_whistling: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140803886130?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT The shift registers, I think I bought 10 for what you paid for one. I save Digikey for those specialty items such as 45 degree rotary selector switches which no one seems to have on eBay...only 33 degrees. Otherwise everything I buy is from China. The cost savings is simply enormous and in ll good conqence, I could not afford this project otherwise. You were asking what I use for machining...it is a Taig CNC Mill made in the USA. I also have a full size manual mill, a 10 x 12 lathe and a Taig Micro Lath, not to mention the usual belt sanders, micro table saw, band saw etc. Finally, at age 60, I have a shop that can let me build pretty much anything I wish. I would however like to add a laser cutter and a gantry style rotary mill that is not Chinese made. They simply cut to many corners in the name of cost savings to be able to produce a quality (read: accurate) milling machine. One day though...maybe. My CLP is on the back burner just untill I get back to full working order, still not 100%. Probably, a mild flu. BTW Clay, where are the photos? It would be nice to see your work. It really helps not only yourself but others who get ideas on how to do things.

I have been using the VID series of stepper motors for most of my gauges and they have been performing extremely well. The VSI and Speed Indicator and all of the engine gauges have them. They do have one shortfall however...they have hardly any torque. However, most gauges don't require much torque. They just need enough to smoothly push a super light little pointer around. Except... My Standyby ADI: The side stepper motor in the picture above adjusts for attitude with no issue whatsoever. The roll indicator is not so lucky. I guess its all the weight up front. I used extremely high quality bearings so it turns like silk but its the initial force required to get it moving. With all the varied expertise on this board, is there someone who knows stepper motors, especially the smaller micro steppers and could recommend a stepper motor they know would work with this gauge. Obviously, it will need to be small. I will use an Arduino to integrate it with DCS. There are so many stepper motors on eBay but I really don't want to be buying and experimenting over and over until I find a suitable motor. You can see the gear I have on the shaft that will drive the roll. That last bay is where I planned to install it or it can be on the very outside and I'll add a second smaller shaft with a gear to make the connection.

Hi Clay Sorry I haven't responded sooner...Been under the weather. Question for you. Why use shift registers? You don't need to get so complicated. This is where the MAX7219 really shines...with 7 seg displays. I have used them for the ILS, TACAN, UHF Repeater, both VHF radios and I will use them with the UHF as well. They work so well and require very little effort. They even have PCB's already made for you and also for 7 seg displays. They must have seen us coming because these are new and I have never seen these months ago. http://www.ebay.com/itm/171462457882?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT I've even ordered a bunch to try out. How can you beat that price. It only takes me 10 minutes to cut one on my mill, but the design time to draw it up can be quite a bit especially when you don't know what you doing like me.:smilewink: Check ebay for 7 seg PCB's as they are also inexpensive and worth looking into. BTW, you were asking about current on my design. They way I figured it was the less LEDS on a row the less current required to drive them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the MAX7219 scans row by row, turning on and off the row of LEDS at an extremely fast rate. As it works on a row by row basis then the the smaller the number of LEDs it has to deal on a row, the less current it requires to drive that row. With regard to the value of the current limiting resistor, I calculated its value based on what the the data sheet offered but what I may not have taken into account is that I'm not using 7 segs in a row so I might have over valued it. :doh: That resistor calculation is a little bit black magic and the explanation on how to determine it is not well explained. At least..it confused me but then I' am easily confused now a days. :huh: :pilotfly:

I'm glad you finally are up and running. I haven't had a chance to test anything yet but I will this weekend. Your circuit differs from mine as follows. You use 8 LEDs to create a row and connect each row of 8 to one digit using a total of 6 digits. I use 6 LEDs to create a row and connect each row to a total of 8 digits on the 7219. The. Current usage is less that way and the scan rate faster as there are only 6 LEDs in a row to worry about instead of 8. There should be no preceptable difference between the two circuits in terms of function. You also asked about the connector/plugs...Each connector represents 2 digits and 2 rows of 6 LEDs = 14 pins. That's why I initially mentioned why my circuit would not work with Ian's sketch without modification. Now that we have been talking about circuits I just realized that I calculated my current limiting resistor based on using all 8 segments of the 7219. Except I'm only using 6 . I wonder if that might be part of the problem I'm having. Maybe not as that would just make them all dim. I'll try the new sketch this weekend and report back.

I have 2 PC's at home in different parts of the house. One is strictly for flying. It has DCS World and all my air-frames on it. The second PC is my shop and I use it to develop my cockpit panels, do the Arduino programming, CNC processing, etc. I have now reached a point where I must do a lot of testing of my gauges and displays, especially "in flight" tests and its has become apparent that I need DCS and the A10 on my other PC. So I installed DCS World on it and during the sale I bought another A10 to use on this PC. I haven't installed the new A10C purchase yet as I have concerns about running DCS on 2 separate PCs with the same account and 2 A10C's running, although there will only be a single A10C on each PC. I did this to avoid all this deactivation stuff. I just want to sit down at either PC and run the A10 without having to deal with anything else. Can someone confirm that once I install my newly purchased A10C and activate it on my shop PC that all will be good or will I have issues with ED.