Hook47

Haven't been able to reply to this for a few days, so I wanted to catch up and give the MiG 21 pilots perspective. Fist of all, thanks to everyone who joined! As I told GGTharos hopefully no one was planning on taking it personally. I was bummed he was the only one who joined TS for whatever reason. About the actual fight- I should start by saying at no time have I claimed the MiG 21 had anything but a disadvantage in a guns only fight with the F-15 (and of course the Mirage) so I don't see how a "grudge" match proved anything. I did it for fun, and fun it was. That being said, and having not actually tried to gun dual F-15s before, I was shocked at how well the MiG 21 did. At one point I had four F-15s all trying to kill me and unable to get a firing position, even with the fancy gun site. At all times I was out numbered yet my faithful little MiG 21 was able to consistently deny the enemy the shot, as Tharos remarked in TS several times, the MiG 21 was "showin them up" for a good margin of the fight. This changed when I shifted my strategy from staying purely defensive to actually trying to get kills. I thus became an easier target and was pounced by Hummingbird or one of the others quite quickly. In fact on the several occasions I was lining up the F-15 for guns shots, I would find myself in the sights of another, and of course with the MiG 21s rudimentary gun sight I wouldn't get a kill before being killed. I scored 4 manuvering kills on pursuing F-15s. True, it isn't a gun kill, but it was still a kill none the less. So things were not as blatantly one sided as they may have been expected to be. Hummingbird, unfortetely I never got a chance to focus on a 1 vs 1 with you because I was either defensive against someone else or trying to get a kill, as Tharos mentioned. Even though I did pass head on with you a couple times in an effort to put you in the worst possible position, because I would often get "sniped" by you if I was already in a fight with someone else. None the less good flying, I had fun duking it out with you guys. I do remember the instance where I was turning towards the hill, but as Tharos may remember in that case I had aileron damage and was in trouble. I also felt my Mig 21s ability to turn with the F-15 bleed away each time I re-spawned against F-15s with far less fuel. All in all I have to admit that all things being equal, and to my actual surprise, I feel totally confident I could avoid being killed by an F-15 in a 1 vs 1 setting in the MiG 21, simply based on my ability to turn with and sometimes into the F-15. I don't think I would ever get into a kill position with guns 1 vs 1 unless the other pilot made an error, but I feel very confident I could stay alive for awhile. Props to Tharos BTW for having the gentleman's courtesy to go into an observer role once he saw me dealing with 3 other F-15s, LOL. I had my hands full! Again, it was a lot of fun guys, and like I said from the start- The MiG 21 is an old bird, but don't write it totally off! It was a hell of a plane for it's time and can turn and burn better than almost any other 3 gen + plane. Also sorry for the sudden shutdown guys, I minimized to check my RAM and the game crashed lol. Go Figure! I had to work so I had no time to bring it back. Thanks again though, I certainly had fun, and the Eagle is a beast of a plane to fight. Dude let's just agree to not agree or interact or whatever. I can't figure where you are getting this stuff about me "Not listening to reason" or trolling or whatever, show me a post where I said the MiG 21 was better than the Mirage?! I didn't, I only said it may have a better shot against it than against the other 4th gen fighters on the DCS world scene. Now that the AJS 37 is coming, that has changed! Let's just let it go for goodness sake. It was never trolling, just me saying something less than the MiG would get it butt utterly kicked, and that didn't go over well. I even tried to change the topic many many times only for you, jojo, or that other guy to bring it back up. Like I said, let's let it go.

And why would you suspect that? You're welcome to join in, I never said the MiG 21 has anything but a disadvantage with guns only thanks to radar sights, but I'm a laid back dude and don't get my feelings hurt as easily as some it seems. You are welcome to hop in if you like, that goes for F-15 and MiG 21 drivers. Like I said, I enjoy a challenge either way.

Hey, you know what? I can make 1800, so I'll bite... It doesn't prove a thing about my original discussion which has now been deleted, but I enjoy a challenge! I'll toss up a server at 18:00 named "F-15 Vs MiG 21 Guns" if you are willing to fly. I could care less about concessions or gloating, I enjoy a challenge. We can use a channel on the 104th teamspeak As for those wanting tracks for gloating purposes or whatever reason, as said above, I invite you to join in yourself! I'll put a few 15s and MiGs in. Note that I don't have too long before I have some other obligations tonight, but we can get a few flights in.

Awesome! It will certainly be fun to try. An example of when it could be interested to try would be in a scenario I was in on the 104th Last night, when I got into a turning fight with another Flanker. I disabled the ASC just long enough to get my gunsight lined up for a kill. It would be fun to try something similar in the M2000 but I feel the possibility of entering a snap roll or a massive energy loss would be high (The SU-27 losses energy insanely fast when overriding ASC in a hard turn) but thanks a lot for the answer, I am glad we get the option to turn it off to try at least. I wonder if there is an emergency procedure that would call for the pilot to override the FBW, and if flying without FBW is something french Aviators do from time to time. I have experience as a CH-47 Crew Chief in the US Army, and our pilots would practice with AFCS off to get a feel for handling the bird should the system fail or need override (as you can imagine, the Chinook gets very interesting without AFCS on). Can the FBW be taken out do to battle damage? I would imagine such a system is highly redundant. Also glad to hear you guys are probably shooting for 2.0, hopefully the Black Sea port won't take too long for those who don't have NTTR (I do of course) Any new screen shot or video goodness devs? The natives are gettin' restless!

I see some of the discussion has been deleted... :huh: That is unfortunate. The above makes sense though, I was not sure if enough had been changed to cause a 1.5 module to no longer work in 2.0. Having it for both would certainly be the best option, as I certainly want to fly at NTTR. One thing I have been wondering about is if you can override FBW, and if that would equal total suicide in the delta wing M200C. From time to time in dogfights in the SU-27 I take advantage of the "ASC Direct control" feature to allow me to get my nose lined up for an extreme gun shot, or to lag a bandit who is turning inside of me prior to the ASC override. Can you override the FBW in the DCS version and if so would it immediately depart controlled flight?

I think that depends on Razbams release decisions. If released on open alpha it would probably have to be after the Black Sea map was ported.

Hopefully announced this year, I think a release for this year is really pushing it though. By mystery planes did you mean the LNS: F4U and LNS: Viggen?

And while turning it back to the M2000C solely, it was asked a few pages back if the devs had any clue if the M2000 was going to release to 1.5, 2.0 Alpha, or both? I am very curious to know as well.

We feel ya. It is certainly lacking in that type of content. While BST makes great modules I think many of us would like them finished. I'm still waiting for gunners on my MI-8. Yea the F-5 will be awesome, but will it be unfinished as well?

Yea I can't find any video of it even being used, so there really isn't a major reason NOT to replace the shoot with the countermeasure pod, and there definitely is a good reason to want the CM pod.

If you and others can't handle discussion about the M2000 vs the 21 without calling it "trolling" then just leave the topic alone

The speed isn't that far off from an F-16s speed, the question really is does the M2000 usually need it's Drogoe chute for anything more than a short field landing. Most documentation I've found including Dassaults weapon says 140kts approach speed So I guess the real question is how are the brakes?

I forgot to mention I usually lean my head high and to the left or right to look past the nose through the front cockpit quarter panel. Just keep the right or left side of the runway aligned and offset the appropriate direction and you will stay aligned well.

I would avoid using those systems (PRMG) as a new pilot and learn to do it the VFR way first. Not to be disagreeable but for a new pilot I would recommend avoiding heavy rudder use on approach, as you can induce slip and sink at lower speed. Much safer to correct with roll.

No need to be so harsh, it's obviously difficult and a topic we can expect to be revisited. The biggest tip I can give you as a new MiG 21 pilot is pay VERY close attention to your VVI (Or VSI in western aircraft) and your approach speed. Also, make sure you align yourself on a long final and do not get too low. You will know you are getting too low if you lose sight of the threshold of your runway over your nose. The MiG 21 has a VERY tight approach envelope you want to maintain- That is a speed of 340kph (NO SLOWER) and a descent rate of no more than 10m/s as indicated on the VVI. When you cross the threshold of the runway and are closing on ground effect (the last 20 feet or so before touch down) fully arrest your descent to almost nothing on the VVI. Just a SCRATCH below 0, which would be about 1-3 M/s descent. Keep your speed on or higher than about 330 for touchdown (better fast than slow). Once you are on the ground and below 275 release your Drogue shoot, which is the black button just behind the canopy latches. Be careful trimming, as you will loose a feel for your planes sink rate and can endup in a sudden stall or sink. Make sure you have good wind correction in if you are having trouble with runway alignment. Also give yourself AMPLE approach distance when learning. I recommend loading the MiG 21 landing tutorial and replaying it as needed, as it establishes you on a nice long approach Let us know if any of these tips help or if you are having any other issues! If you want to fly online sometime and do a little practice send me a PM and I can host a session!

Then next time just say it instead of "implying" Lower than that? Source please? Everything I can find says it is at least 140kts, and that appears to be a clean aircraft. with 15% fuel and two AAMs is about 155kts and it goes up from there. Would like the devs input if they could be so kind.

Actually, you DIDN'T say that. What you said was "WUT DUNT U GET ABOUT TEH M2000 HAZ FBW!!!111" as if I have been denying the M2000 has FBW for some reason. Wasn't very helpful After browsing through some documentation, landing speed for an M2000 empty appears to be around 140Kts. With load it can be up to 200. That is actually ballpark of the MiG 21 which approaches at 180 kts. So it seems with load, loosing the chute could be a factor if you will need to make a shorter field landing depending on how effective the breaks are.

Yea its dead in the water TOTALLY until it is hot fixed. Easy with the "Soon" word, my friend, it makes us nervous around here...

WTH? This completely sucks....

No, I see why you would think that but I think I understand the M2000 is a pretty good flying aircraft. I was just pointing out reasons not to count out the MiG 21, which is more than some people here seem to be able to handle. That is nothing new to us MiG 21 fans, we have been dealing with it since before it came out. Funny thing is I am actually going to be a huge M2000 fan too, but that still doesn't make my think it's a foregone conclusion I'll be blowing MiGs out of the sky before they could ever be a threat. Quite the opposite, I'll recognize the couple of advantages it has that could make it dangerous. It's ok, us Fishbed drivers bank of underestimation. Dude. What don't you get about actually reading a post before you open your mouth? The question was if loosing the Drogue shoot would make stopping the M2000 hard with enough runway. Do you know what FBW doesn't effect? THE BRAKES.... Exactly what I have been trying to get across, but it ain't getting through my man.

Just to stir the pot a bit. The M2000 is more maneuverable than the Flanker, only if the flanker feels like it... LOL [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwI9ZOFAEzE&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

It could make things tricky. I am betting on speed for the M2000 is pretty high, but not as high comparatively as the MiG 21. I would think that an empty and thirsty M2000 should be manageable if you use most of the runway. I can usually land the MiG 21 without the shoot in the right conditions.

Thats a big negative my man, my experience is quite the opposite, the MiG 29 has an advantage over the Eagle in the merge handling wise, and the pretty huge benefit of the HMD (why did it take the USAF so long to get with it!) I would imagine the PFM will reinforce that. But that is neither here nor there. I think given all things equal, the 29 will be a bigger threat to the M2000 than the F-15

But far less of them, as mentioned in my prior post. The MiG is no more balls deep than it is against the 15, and I think significantly less than against the 29, and it can come out of out alive in the right hands. The real question is will the 29 murder the M2000? HMD, more missiles, R-77, and better energy management/speed and significantly higher TTW ratio? Ouchies. Your just a write off, bro. You are cherry picking my post and making irrational generalizations instead of carrying on an actual discourse.

The STT and ITT are not what make me fear the F-15C, 27 or 29 in the merge, it's the deadly amount of ordinance and sensors like the longitudinal mode, and particularly the HMD on the 27 and 29. Also the 15 can climb better than the 21 in the merge, but the Mirage is much closer to the 21. Actually a USAF F-16 aviator said that if you look back.