Fri13

Petrovich does stupid things too often. You fly to perfect hover, jump to front and Petrovich starts waving nose around and turning sideways etc. It takes time to get it commanded to relax. Or it just flies on ground because pulled high AoA and went VRS. Sometimes it feels like Petrovich is flying first time.

That was the simplified control for AI. So it is similar to "lock closest target" command in fighters.

I have non-centering joystick. So no spring or any force to center it. It has dry clutches to hold it in place where I leave it. If I need to move joystick right to 70% to have level flight (50% being center) and I use trim, I am giving extra 20% to right if I do not center joystick. This caused problem that I was confused as I couldn't really get Hind for wanted direction easily as it always required some extra corrections to opposite direction. Until I opened the control indicator and noticed that Hind went to wanted trimmed attitude everytime I moved joystick back to center. No more unthinkable stick movements to get it to center or close.

It does work as collective doesn't move accidentally. In few minutes you learn habit to press and hold that button whole moving collective. It as well helps a lot if ones collective has it pot suffering from jittery.

IMHO the trim works as centering trim. If you apply 20% left for level flight and press trim, you will apply 20+20% trim, why you roll to left. You need to physically move joystick to center for AP to apply only required 20% trim. So even if you select "non-centering joystick" for trim, you need to center the joystick for proper trimming. Hence, do not use trim button but just adjust joystick on wanted position and AP automatically takes it from there.

Seems that all modes requires trim to recenter the joystick. I was constantly fighting with controls by using a "no-spring & FF" option as I have such a joystick. And after every trim it required to center joystick to not cause double input. Now I fly without trimmer and it works as should. Just move stick where wanted and it stays there.

It is easy to fly slow (50-70 kph), but you can't do any combat that way because your nose is so high up. That means, - You can't perform a ATGM attack from hover or at slow speed because you can't get ASP-17 sight on target without speeding up. - You can't aim rockets easily as it will accelerate. - You can't use cannon, pods or anything if you want to aim, anyways recoil push nose down. This is where the Mi-24V would have rocked, as you hover and let the operator just shoot around. The Mi-24P is really for the speed. Get 100-300 kph and it does very stable manner everything. Interestingly it does so better than KA-50.

There are oddities like that currently. You do same thing time after time and it doesn't work, until suddenly it does He does that! I believe that sight is broken, as its stabilization isn't working. It should keep the vector, and operator needs to compensate for helicopter movements in two plane. Now the sight is waving around even in near perfect hover (what now it moves forward like 0.2 meters per second, very obvious in outside camera). They are still missing to show the Petrovich scanning the area, where you should see the pipper moving around in you gunsight.

The grenades are very odd. I have not really mastered their use in Mi-8MTV2, but it feels like they fly totally wrong direction when fired from slight side drift. You move to left, you aim to right, and grenades flies to far left. It is like they leave the barrel in very odd curve. Why you need to get to perfect straight flight and then just spam them around. As they are shot at crazy high angle for some reason. Excellent weapon when you have infantry and light vehicles. But as well seems to be too little spread for AoA weapon that gets so effected by wind and motion. It feels like there is some problem to get things powered. You can flip correct switches but doors don't open. Btw, check is the cannon not selected either cockpit. As I have faint recollection that gun selected the doors might not open to protect it.

I don't know how sometimes the doors don't open, sometimes they do. You need to have the front panel configured properly so that light lits up when doors opens (top center IIRC) . And of course remember power B2 & B1 at the far right power panel in front cockpit. Then the door switch works right... I assume. I can't get gun working, after letting Petrovich launch free missiles it starts working. But before that nothing. Rockets work, but cannon is silent.

Hopefully the spotted target list gets some extra info. Estimated range and little bit their positions in the group/area. IFV 1, closest and left, over 5 km. IFV 2, further and center. APC 1, farthmost and right. APC 2, farthmost and far right. AAA 1, middle. Would help that is Petrovich estimates target distance to over 5 km, then he will not engage the target automatically. Then you can override him and command fire if player decides range is enough. As well if there are many similar type of targets, they could be actually grouped. Up = list up Down = list down Right = select type / target Left = type list This way in a proper combat formation where you have over 40 APC, 3-6 MBT, 3-6 AAA and 3 SAM, and others, you can quickly select the type first to go hunting.

Don't leave ;). Everyone needs to find out what works best for them. Like many controllers don't have 5 way hat, or some might want to use buttons or voice commands.

No. You have plenty of movement for avoiding tipping over. Just be aware that when you pull collective, you shouldn't have wheel brakes on. As then you can flip over because your CoG is on the locked wheel. If you have wheel brakes on, it will slide on ground if given enough power, or sidewind. Yes you can. You can do the rolling take-off with nose wheel. You don't have similar power as with KA-50, you can end up losing generators like in Mi-8.

You are right about not to use trim. The Mi-24P doesn't put at all a fight to fly when not using a trim. I was confused because the AP channels to operate similar way as in a Mi-8, where the flight engineer job is to adjust them for given condition. So in Mi-8 you have a trim and then you have AP channels, both separated. In the Mi-24P you have them both joined behind the trim button. What seems to cause the problem is that the trim looks to require you to recenter the cyclic, even when you have it set as "no-FF & no-spring". So every time you trim, you don't just program AP for current flight condition, but you need to recenter cyclic and pedals so you don't apply any extra and so on fight on the AP. I was checking the control indicator and after each trim press, everything went fine as long I immediately centered pedals and joystick. This doesn't make sense as why to have a non-centering and no-FF joystick when trimmer behaves like it is a spring loaded and centering joystick? The downside is that I can't use AP feature at all.

That explains then a lot in other helicopters too. So it is the "recommended" value for the service time. Does this apply to other helicopters/modules as well? I noticed that Mi-24P has in the mission editor the engines service life by default at 90% and can be set higher or lower. Is this first module offering that?

Didn't say it is cheating, but little like. As you don't need to deal with the human communication problem "Look at your left, there is that ¤#!""#¤ second white building, just right of it is something, do you see it?" "No, I see a red house..." With a good human co-player one should be very effective in the Mi-24P, as when you get the communication thing flowing then you work together more effectively than you can with the Petrovich. But get a bad player or one that you don't sync well, then Petrovich will be very valuable. I just like to see what it gets later on, so it could call the targets it spots when just cruising around etc. And if it even could assist with navigation somewhat. It is easy to get there to situation that you just bury your head inside cockpit. Utilizing the auto-scan feature and as well just the speed and such will allow one to keep head out almost constantly. Just requiring to look screen when performing the lock. If it would work... I forgot that I flip the master arm on the pilot seat by habit, overriding the Petrovich CCIP sync. That happens when you watch some video (Wags tutorials) and you don't get a full manual that would explain all system relationship to other systems. So of course I was stuck to idea that pilot master arm can be On for readying yourself for a gun/rocket attack after missiles etc and you just disable the pilot CCIP calculation with AUTO/MAN switch in ASP-17 sight. Yes those are well remembered already It isn't a CCIP sure, but it is better known as "CCIP pipper" than "moving sight" etc. The Petrovich will scan the area (how far and wide, dunno) and will as well tell that it can't find anything if you command it to search something at sea More like it finds a target and there is just good nice small pathway there and it likely will in final moments of course hit the obstacle... Clearly our Petrovich has too high expectations from his skills at this moment.

I just tested that hypothesis and seems to be so. I did fly to specific point on a map that was recognizable on map and on 3D world. Then I went flying a 50 km random route zig-zag etc. And then I did fly back to location. I likely was off by a 200-500 meters or something, as I didn't anymore remember that as the map symbol in specific spot or not :-D Anyways it either was spot on, or it was that few hundred meters off (in the small scale map 1 mm is 200 meters IIRC, so you anyways are just as accurate as you then finalize your position / navigation by looking terrain instead the map. The map is just there to give the situational awareness where you generally are. That got either be a bug, or then there is somekind setting that confuses the system. Could it be linked somehow to doppler system memory mode? As that light turns On again when Wags turn on level flight after rolled turn? Similar thing is with the Mi-8 that you have about 20-30 degree rolling capability when doppler system can measure speed and attitude, and higher turn and it gets to memory mode?

Just call him as "Petro".... I have a problem, as the CCIP pipper should be slaved to the sight position. I don't get that. I have no idea where the operator is aiming and I need to point helicopter around to hear the tone and know that what was that "IFV 1". Sure, it is little bit like cheating. You have someone else doing the targeting and guidance. Vikhr has over 1000 mm RHA penetration value after ERA (explosive armor). The Shturm and Ataka has 650/800 mm behind ERA if I remember now correctly. And Vikhr can get to 10 km if you launch it from higher altitude and at high speed, but at low altitude and in hover you have about 8 km (more like a 7.5 km). The Vikhr is laser beamrider. It works such way that Shkval targeting system locks on something via contrast, or you just keep it pointed. On the moment of launch the laser beam is wide and low energy. The laser beam has a quarter coded areas in it. It will be shaped by timer and power is increased so it gets narrower and more powerful beam. The beam is calculated to stay about 7 meters wide in the distance here Vikhr is flying. This way the guidance mode doesn't trip the Laser Warning Receivers on targets. The Vikhr missile has in the rear a sensor, and the missile reads the laser code that in which sector it is in side the beam. And as the missile is swirling around, it constantly is moving around the laser beam. It has one control surface to steer the missile for tighter turn. And this it does as long until it becomes to flight path here it is flying inside all the laser coded areas - in the center of the beam, that is pointed by the Shkval/Pilot on the target. This is why you can't really intercept the targeting or jam the guidance because missile is looking backwards toward the helicopter, and helicopter is firing laser toward the missile and target. You can only launch one or two Vikhr at the same time on the same target. When you set launch mode to Long, you launch two Vikhr missiles and the laser guidance is started only on the second Vikhr launch. Both Vikhr will be following the same beam. If you range or lock something middle of the guidance, the laser is reset and guidance is lost and missiles are lost. The Shturm/Ataka are radio guided missiles. Similar principle that there is antenna in the missile and Mi-24 sends a radio guidance commands to missile to witch direction to steer. I don't now recall which one it was, but there are such systems where you have flare behind a missile that the targeting system tracks and sends a guidance commands to missile to move that missile in center of the line of sight. Or it is a similar "beam rider" where radio signal is sent that has similar polarization and missile tries to fly center of the signals. But point is that the system use radio, and is so on possibly jammed with ECM. One of the major differences is that Vikhr is extremely fast missile. It flies over Mach 1, when example TOW is sub-sonic. The Ataka doesn't seem to be slow either, but it should be IIRC something like 1.6 vs 1.2 on average speed. This makes it possible to engage many SAM systems or similar missile systems as those will hit them sooner and so on destroy the guidance system, or allow to get back in cover after attack. Little bit, but Vikhr another feature is that it has a pre-fragmentation sleeve against soft-targets and aircraft. It has as well a proximity fuze. Someone wiser could clarify that does the Ataka has proximity fuze as well, as there is problems earlier that both were mistaken to same, and Vikhr was even thought to have IR seeker. So possibility is that both have proximity fuze and alternative fragmentation warhead. I don't see problem in the KA-50 using Vikhr. As the helicopter flies itself when you check the Shkval. The problem is really DCS simulation that there is no such thing as contrast lock. That is the key feature in the Shkval that you should be able lock it on anything that has contrast. It doesn't even need to be vehicle or anything, as long you get the center of the shkval on target (even hold by manually) and it will fly there. Another problem is that for some odd reason the Shkval will start moving by itself around, even if you are in perfect hover or slow speed, the system just "loses it" and starts turning on random direction and you can't relock or you can't control it as it just keeps going.

On the Mi-24 the location indicator seems to be drifting seriously. On a 20 km route it can be off by 2-5 km, and really move to wrong direction. On the Mi-8 what tested by starting it from random position, flying a 40 km route randomly and then using it to return to original position and it works extremely well, sometimes it can be off by 50 meters or so. But I don't know how accurate the map is in the map box. As if it is like the NATO navmap in A-10C, F/A-18C etc. Then it is extremely inaccurate compared to "real DCS map". So your roads, rivers etc are totally off on map compared where they are in 3D world. So when you are flying utilizing it, you might get it totally wrong. Need to try same as with Mi-8 that sync it specific position, fly the route randomly and return and check how much it has drifted. But that is the beautiful thing in it... You can so easily sync it with landmarks, if just the map itself is correct with the 3D world. The paper map in the box seems to be so inaccurate and out of scale that it can never be in proper match with the 3D world because the 3D world doesn't match the paper map that is scanned.

Confirm, the default is to include the main joystick with it, and it can cause problems when non-centered. I had throttle mini-stick and joystick set for it. Constantly was sticking to sky somewhere because mini-stick jitter. Removing mini-stick and joystick, adding joystick mini-stick for its place and things are proper. Interestingly requires some dead zones anyways. Need to check out how to get possible problem off that deadzone is not honored as sometimes sight keep moving like some other axis would be doing it. So fix is to rebind things.

That is key point for so many things in DCS. No sense to make a minelaying when you don't have proper mine system, ground units interaction with them. No reason to add the bombing sight when again interaction with ground units is missing. If we would get some point the suppressive effect with the weapons, proper infantry behavior and vehicle damage modeling, then a machinegun becomes effective weapon for many purposes. I am yet to test the gunpods for Mi-24 but they were not so impressive on Mi-8 or even in UH-1. All helicopters suffers from this problem. If that gets fixed, there is better reason then possibly in future make a Mi-24V variant as suddenly the 12.7 mm would be more useful. Now it is the 30 mm and rockets that plays the game.

It is little so, but then the Auto Pilot modes don't work as it doesn't know what are your wanted parameters. So trimmer is critical for that. The problem actually get solved by disabling the "rudder trimmer". As rudder is not suddenly doubled by it, it will keep all other channels correct and they don't affect to it. So when trimming you can be predictive with all controls. Problem just is that if there is spring on the pedals, then you need to hold them in position all the time. That just means it is time to install the dampener to the pedals to make them springless.

At least it is no working as one would expect, that designating works without going first to EHSD. It was refreshing actually to get streamlined the attack behavior now as documented. Now they need to tackle many other incorrect behaviors too. Need to take some time later on to check this patch log. Edit: Forgot still the 23.9.9 error existing, selecting targetpoint from the EHSD doesn't designate them automatically as manual states. Now you still need to box designation in EHSD to make it designated. So T0 is always the designation via DMT, LST, TPOD etc. And when saving targetpoints it stores them other than T0.

No real experience from the Mi-24. But what can be said about its feeling and look, it flies like you see in the videos. The lead developer is ex-Mi-24 pilot, why they have well tested the feeling and all (don't know how may other active or non-active pilots they have) behaviors. The Mi-8 is totally different compared to Mi-24, totally on character to fly with faithful traces of the Mi-8 itself. At the low speeds you are similar, but when you get in the speed it becomes very unique experience to fly compared anything that DCS World offers at the moment. Edit: The old discussions about "How to prepare for MI-24P when released, what module to fly" is interesting now as hindsight. That Mi-8 really was the best thing for that (odd how people suggested other helicopters even) but it is so dream to fly for the attack with Mi-24 that it handles almost like a fixed plane, it is so stable. It is very difficult to say what exactly is the difference, but if you think about cutting a tomato with a dull table knife vs sharp fruit knife you can get the idea how those move through air. The idea that Mi-24 is like a crocodile that spots its prey and it will move straight on it is pretty good analogy as well. Where in Mi-8 it was always little risky to think that what will happen on your next rocket attack as you are so "slow" to move. Where the Mi-24P gives you courage to attack head-on.

This requirement to center physical controls is little annoying here and there. I fly with extended joystick without FF or spring. I have clutch dampeners so joystick stays where I leave it. I have selected corresponding trim method and it still cause little odd things that I need to center joystick, similar way as the pedal trimmers. The pedals (VKB T-Rudder) is still with the spring (task at hand to remove the spring and install a dampener) that makes it annoying because how quickly the helicopter reacts to new trimmed position on pedals. So example to make a straight flight after turn you might need to gapply 15% more pedal, you do so that it flies straight and then press trim. On that exact moment the helicopter gives 15+15 trim amount as autopilot will apply that extra 15 as commanded. So immediately it is required to take feets off the pedals so you don't apply yours 15%. This becomes little like a step dancing if trying to make trimming with proper position with larger inputs. Why it is easier to just apply very very tiny amount and just keep hitting the trim button (oh poor mechanical button....) until you have wanted amount. So example if needed to give 15% pedal, give 1% and then just keep hitting trim. Each time you press trim you apply +1% more. It is easy to see how the pedals move to wanted attitude. So pressing 15x the trim button in that moment makes it easier to make controlled turn without yanking, but it is slower. Need to try the trim hat later on (doesn't move the physical joystick) how much it helps. But all attack runs etc are difficult to do if trying to make them with "hold-move-release" method as it will yank on the release moment completely. Why it is easier to just not to trim in the attack phase but just move joystick as you have full smooth control of the flight. I think what is causing confusion for many is that Mi-24 is very stable in forward flight. It behaves nicely and requires large control movements to make tighter changes. Then when you go to slow speeds, that streamlined flight is minimized/gone and the difference is major one. So it can become little as a shock how suddenly the Mi-24 is nimble and reacts so quickly to smaller inputs. Compared to the Mi-8 that has that huge "green house" cockpit and is round as a blowfish and flies like that all the time. So it is easy to learn its behavior. On the first flight for me the Mi-24 felt like trying to steer a ocean liner. So custom for small control inputs that you easily take a 1-2 km turn radius with that thing and need to concentrate to pull tighter to make faster turns. Have you flown with the pitch stabilizer On?