

Chivas
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Everything posted by Chivas
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I think his definition of a larger FOV was wrong. Because something is higher and wider doesn't mean its area is larger. If one is a circle and the other a square, the square with the same height and width would have a higher FOV area. So I'm just suggesting that the FOV area of both sets will be very close, as most reviews are suggesting. That said, it appears that almost every issue like FOV, SDE, etc etc, appears to be a non-issue for most users. That doesn't mean their isn't room for improvement, it just suggests that users find immersion greater than the faults.
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Yes there are huge arguments on the validity of those tests. I'm no expert in that regard. Personally if those images were depictive of what people actually seen in the different headset, then there would be no question in users minds which had the larger FOV, but that isn't the case.
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I think you will have to turn down the graphic considerably. VR displays two slightly different images for the 3D effect, while a monitor has to only display one image. Also VR requires close to a constant 90 fps, although the ATW software that Oculus uses will help with momentary drops below 90fps. Another sim the WW2 Cliffs of Dover is also in the process of implementing VR on the Rift. I found I was able to maintain well over 100fps over London even on the highest settings except building set to HIGH instead of UNLIMITED. This was with 4.0+ gig CPU, and a 980TI, so we could have two very good combat flight sims for our Rifting pleasure.
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That's the million dollar question that DCS has avoided, and Flyinside didn't mention in their last article. I had hopes for the new displays ,and optics, but after hearing racing/space simmers mention that distant objects appear blurry its doubtful. Flight sims are starting to deploy options like larger decals to depict distant aircraft. Personally I've gone with the Rift because of its slightly better display/optics/ATWsoftware/comfort./larger optic sweetspot, and more square FOV, but its still not likely to be good enough for distant objects. BUT I just may be able to spot a distant enemy slightly sooner than my Vive counterpart. ;)
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I totally understand the depth thing, but what I don't understand is how DCS will show the curser/laser/hand? moving in 3d space. If its an arm and hand OK. But If its just a small curser/laser moving in the 3d space of the cockpit, I'm not sure it would graphically look that much different than a mouse curser moving in a 2D cockpit space. Its still just some laser pointing to a switch, or mouse curser on the switch, and activating it. Unless there is a problem moving the mouse curser in the 3D environment.
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Yes I agree with what your saying. I was just thinking that it would be just as easy to take our hand off our Hotas and grab a mouse in VR as it would to grab a wand if it didn't make much graphical difference on the display.
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I having problems figuring out what could the graphical differences be in DCS between using a mouse to click on switches, and the Vive wands. Will the Wands extend hands in the 3D space, or will both likely just have a moveable curser.
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Both headsets are very good, and you shouldn't go far wrong with either one. BUT if your more into flight sims the Rift may be the better choice. The displays, optics, comfort, ATW software are more refined, and better suited for flight sims. The Rift is also a couple hundred dollars cheaper if your mainly into flight sims. If your into full room hand tracking, and can't wait, the Vive is the better choice. That said the Oculus Touch inputs are due out later this year, and they should also be more refined than the current Vive wands. Check out this review from a flight sim developer. http://forum.flyinside-fsx.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1617 The only thing I think he got wrong was the FOV where he suggests the Vive FOV is slighter bigger. The FOV of the Vive is slightly wider, and higher, but its circular where as the Rift is more square. A square has more FOV area than a circle which should make the FOV of both units approximately the same.
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I suppose the free rifts for kickstarter backers didn't help, but Oculus said some of their sub contractors experience delays delivering parts for the Rift. Anyone who's ever built anything that relied partly on sub contractors, knows all to well about delays they had no control over.
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Yes, I should have said hand tracking.
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I agree to point, as I try not to use Icons even on monitors, but most simmers do use icons, and it will be even more important in VR. The only thing holding VR back in flight sims is the resolution, which makes it very difficult to spot distant aircraft. The DCS solution, though I haven't tried it, might work well, where people have different option sizes. Displaying the distant aircraft as a Decal until in gets close enough to make out. Not sure if there is an option to set the distance that the Decal appears. Personally I can no longer see distant aircraft on a monitor either, so when I did fly I made sure I flew with wingman who could. ;)
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Yes, if you want roomscale VR now, the Vive would be a very good choice. If you want better flight simming now the Rift might be a better choice. When the Touch inputs come out they should be a little better than the Wands in some respects. The only advantage the Vive wands might have is 15x15 room scale opposed to the Rifts 12x12 room scale, because of the 5 meter cords as opposed to the 4 meter cords. This might even be a non-issue if extensions work. The only thing I would disagree with in the review is suggesting the FOV is larger with the Vive., albeit with more SDE. The Vive headset FOV is slighter wider and higher, but its circular whereas the Rift is square, which would make the FOV area about the same. The other thing nobody has talked about yet, is how the more square view, and more circular view effects the search for distant enemies. Usually people search in quadrants. I may be wrong, but the search might be more effective is more square quadrants. That said, it also may be a non-issue. The other thing he doesn't talk about....Is the resolution good enough in either headset to spot distant objects which effects flight sims more than most other genre's. He probably doesn't want to talk about that as he's trying to sell his product. Although this will probably be a non-issue as the majority of flight simmers use Icons.
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Are DCS, EveValkerie, Project Cars, Cliffs of Dover etc childlike games? I suppose we could say all games are childish. That said most people who have tried VR no longer seem to have much interest in playing those manly games on a monitor.;)
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FOV....there is a big debate in reddit about the difference in FOV between the Rift and Vive. Measurements are showing the Vive having a wider and higher FOV measurement, while in practice its harder to see much difference in FOV of the two headsets. With most accredited reviewers suggesting its a non-issue. The probable reason that people aren't seeing much of difference is they both could have the same viewable area. The circular viewing area of the Vive might be a little wider and higher, but it loses viewing area with no corner quadrants, that the more square viewing area of the Rift has. I've received the 1 to 3 week email, but haven't bought into the rumoured Oculus ineptitude in the shipping department. Thousands of units have already been shipped, and received, with thousands more being readied for shipment. People's impatience, not knowing exactly where they stand in the queue has got the best of them, not mention peoples love for conspiracies. In other news, Team Fusion and Cliffs of Dover are now suggesting that their Version 5.0 update could have Oculus Rift support. They've reiterated that there are no promises as there are still issues that have to be fixed, like the sims ability to Zoom IN and OUT that could conflict with OR implementation. The update is still scheduled for sometime this summer, and its going to be huge.
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Wags suggested a few weeks ago that TW in an earlier Oculus runtime is having a good impact on DCS. Hopefully ATW alleviates the judder issue even more.
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For those that bought the Rift and are concerned they won't be able to do room scale at some point, here's a link to "upload VR" testing. Oculus Rift is Capable of “Room Scale” with a Single Camera, it’s Just Not Optimized for it http://uploadvr.com/oculus-rift-cv1-one-camera-room-scale/ Palmer has suggested that a Chaperone type system won't be difficult to implement with Touch, and Touch should come with the extra camera. There should also be lots of roomscale content available for the Rift when launched. The only small issue I foresee is that the Vive 5 meter cables will allow 15x15 room while the Rifts 4 meter cables allow for a 12x12 room scale. That said, some people who are doing room scale testing with their Rifts have said that extensions do work.
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I guess it may have a lot to do with content you were using as Wags suggested the exact opposite to your findings, when he suggested that the difference between the DK2, and CV1 were like night and day, and the use of Time Warp smoothed out any judder when frames fell below 90.
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Way better than the Rift? Do you me the DK2, or do have you the Rift CV1 already?
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The Oculus PC SDK v1.3 implements Asynchronous Timewarp (ATW) on Windows. With the latest drivers and hardware, we reduce judder, deliver consistent low latency, and improve efficiency. All apps benefit from this without having to do anything special.
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I finally upgraded my GTX580 to an onsale GTX980TI. I wanted to wait until I was sure my Rift was shipped on Monday, but lost the patience battle. Now I have to hope that Pascal comes out in the next three months to take advantage of the EVGA upgrade promotion.
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Yes, it appears to be one of the few very competent reviews of these products.
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I'm sure Wags isn't the only DCS dev trying out DCS with the Rift and Vive, and I'm sure people know some of Wags and other devs feelings on the two units. Like I said things always get leaked.
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I don't believe it would be a total non starter as stuff always gets leaked, but I do agree that unprejudiced opinions will still be very hard to find even after the release of both devices. Both systems are very close in parity, and it will be difficult to figure out which one will suit their needs a little better. Especially in combat flight sims where its still not clear if either unit is good enough. I will have the Rift this month, and hopefully I will be able to test a Vive at some commercial outlet soon after, but it will be highly unlikely that I will be able to test the Vive in a combat flight sim situation in a commercial outlet. :(
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There is no doubt that it may not be in DCS best interest to voice their opinion on the two devices, at this time, but it doesn't lessen my interest on what those opinions are.:)
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The Vive is definitely a very good option, especially if you want room scale VR now. Oculus has prioritized their hardware for their customers not reviewers and demos. They must be very sure of their product. So far I personally prefer the Rift for flight sims for a few reasons 1. I believe the Rift display are more VR refined, with a little less SDE, which could make the difference in spotting distant aircraft. 2. I also like the larger sweet spot of the Rift optics. 3. The Rift headset appears to be a little better balanced, which would make it feel lighter, for long periods of use. 4. The Rift is cheaper since I don't require VR inputs at this time. 5. Cliffs of Dover and DCS are currently working on Rift support. 5. If I want VR inputs later, the Touch Inputs appear to be more refined than the Vive wands. I'm very interested in getting Wags take on the two headsets. If the Vive ends up being the better unit for my needs, I can easily sell the Rift in April, and buy the Vive.