Chivas

I'm really only interested in VR flight sims, with a passing interest in racing sims. I haven't see any sims that interest me yet with full room tracking, BUT there is a good possibility that VR could turn some of us couch potatoes into svelte human specimens. :thumbup:. Just preordered the VirZoom, as I was in the market for a new fitness machine, or clothes hanger anyway. It has a small enough footprint to fit into my man cave, and VR might even give me enough incentive to actually use it.

Thankfully the Canadian dollar has gotten stronger than it was when I ordered the Rift.

Your absolutely right, but I'm not so sure there are any humans that wouldn't find Judder very annoying.

For obvious reasons both Oculus and Vive settled on 90hz and high frame rates for a decent VR experience. If they could have gotten away with running VR sims at 30fps, that required a much cheaper gpu they would have. 30fps in VR is nonsense at least with the current VR hardware/software.

In my experience with VR prototypes in flight sims, the resolution, and SDE, where the most serious impediments to a good flight sim experience. Hopefully after the NDA's are lifted Wags can give us a serious look at the difference between the two headsets, in regards to SDE, spotting distant objects, reading gauges, lens sweetspot, FOV, etc.

Vive is now suggesting that you will be able to access all Steam games with the Vive is some sort of Movie mode. Nobody knows exactly what that means yet. It would be huge if it means we could play all Steam games in VR, but it might just mean that the VR headset is just acting like a monitor, in non VR games.

No problem mate, things are changing so fast its hard to keep up with it. Its not like I've never been wrong. :)

Thanks pilot, saved me some time looking it up.:) I knew there was internal tracking, and my DK2 didn't stop tracking when I checked my six, I never even noticed any judder when the camera kicked back in. edit...this begs the question if IMU tracking are in hand trackers, or could be put into the hand trackers to alleviate the moments when the hand trackers are occluded. And don't kid ourselves as both tracking systems have occlusion problems. Although size, weight, and data transfer issues could make internal tracking in the hand trackers a non starter.

Quote: Originally Posted by Chivas Tracking in the HMD took over when you looked too far behind, and lost camera tracking How is that wrong. If the HMD loses Camera tracking, all that's left is the internal headset tracking to determine headset position.

As far as I remember, the Rift has always had internal tracking, but it was never optimal, as the position would drift. They introduced external camera tracking for a number of reasons, but the Rift still assess data from both the external and internal sources as far as I know.

The DK2 used camera, and hardware in the headset for full tracking. Tracking in the HMD took over when you looked too far behind, and lost camera tracking, BUT there was some judder when you turned back to the front when the data from the camera kicked back in, and there was a discrepancy between the two positions. BUT none of that matters now as trackers have been added at the back of the headset with their new Constellation system. For those that have trouble fully turning to check six. Team Fusion is looking at using the hatswitch in CLOD to add a few degrees to our turn. Its an interesting thought, but not sure how well it would work in regards to the nausea question. Some are more susceptible than others. Personally I'm thinking of adding a swivel to my LazyBoy cockpit seat. BUT there are problems for that too if you use rudder pedals. The swivel will need just the right resistance, so that swivel didn't move when using rudder pedals.

He does bring up the camera mode when he can't find his phone.

This is the best video I've seen so far on the see thru camera/chaperone system, and its much better than some reviewers have suggested. BUT what we are seeing in the YouTube doesn't necessarily correlate with what the person is actually seeing in the VR headset. Although it is closer with the new HMD's with higher resolutions as compared to the YouTube videos with the lower resolution DK2. That said he did have problems getting his hands on his phone at one point. .

Your right the pic would be the size of a monitor, in VR. I think the camera enhances the Vive chaperone system as intended very well, but I'm struggling to see much benefit for cockpit switch finding. Although a 2D image wouldn't be that much of a benefit, for hand eye coordination. By the time people used muscle memory/feel to find the switch to select the see thru camera, people with muscle memory/feel would have found the cockpit/hotas switch they were looking for in the first place. We should finally have some answers when the Rift and Vive flight sim users start showing up, or when Wags can do an extensive review of the Rift and Vive. I don't think there is an extensive NDA on the Vive, but Wags may be waiting until he's allowed to say something about the Rift as well.

Detailed Experience: A lot of hours with both Oculus & Vive back to back. Which is right for you? This is close to what I've interpreted from reviews etc over the last few months. If room scale VR is what you want, and don't want to wait and see what the finalized specs of the Touch hardware are, then the Vive should be your choice. You won't go far wrong, but I'm interested in VR in the combat flight sim context. If your more interested in flight sims, then the Rift might be the clearer choice. Pun intended The HUGE QUESTION still unanswered....will the resolution of the first consumer versions be good enough for flight sims. This reviewer suggests, along with many other reviewers that the Rift is clearer, which MIGHT suggest that it may be possible to spot distant aircraft. My experience with the DK2 showed that the combination of SDE, and low resolution made spotting distant aircraft almost impossible. Removing SDE from the equation, along with the CV1's higher resolution than the DK2, MIGHT make it possible. I let you know at the end of March. I'm also very interested in reviews from Vive users in April.

Is it just me, but isn't the camera view that tiny 1"x1" square, we see on the screen while he's picking up the computer tracking generated image of the controllers. The very small image does look very clear, but too small to be of much use. Can that image be made larger, and does it lose much resolution when enlarged?

@DigitalEngine Yes I've heard of the video, but haven't actually seen it. Is he looking at his watch in a normal fashion, or holding his watch up to the camera. If he can read his wrist watch from a foot or so away, then the see thru camera is much better than I thought, but the 2D with no depth, and immersion break could still be a problem.

The extra camera isn't required for HMD tracking. Just like the Vive, two trackers are required for Rift VR controller tracking. Touch will come with the extra tracker.

Loss of tracking isn't an issue with the Rift or Vive HMD's, as the whole HMD is tracked thru 360* unlike TrackIR. Unless you stick your head between your legs, to kiss your assgoodbye while being shot down, it should never be a problem. :smilewink:

Checking our six is going to be a major problem in VR for us older less flexible people. :noexpression:

Hopefully it works out for you, but the current Vive front facing camera is a very low res, 2D camera which was designed to complement their obstruction detection system. You will see a vague representation of chair, but its unlikely you'd be able to see individual switches. Not to mention you'd probably be able to find the cockpit switch with muscle memory in the time it took you to use muscle memory to find the switch on the HMD to turn on the front facing camera.

Yes, I had a brain fart, and here's a link to the announcement from a year or so ago of the company Oculus bought, with tech very similar too Leap Motion that may be incorporated with the Rift at some point. Pebbles Interfaces joins Oculus https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/pebbles-interfaces-joins-oculus/

Oculus bought a couple of companies that have developed tech similar to Leap Motion, so it will be interesting to see if, and how Oculus might have incorporated this new tech with their VR Touch controllers due out later in the year. Personally I don't much like the idea of letting go of the joystick and picking up a VR controller to throw switches in the cockpit, unless the VR controller was the actual joystick that could be moved in an out of a docking station. Where the docking station allowed one VR controller to only move as a joystick gimbal would, and the other docking station allowed the more linear movement of a throttle. This might be easier to incorporate with the longer Vive controllers, while the Rift controllers might allow more realistic finger dexterity. If these VR controllers are accurate enough, I can definitely see modders doing something like this.

Its a waste of time trying to get a feel for VR graphics etc looking at a YouTube video. It doesn't come anywhere close to the look and feel of VR. You can only make an assumption based on the effect VR is having on the YouTube pilot . VR can't be properly assessed on anything other than using the actual hardware.

No. I won't be able to do that until later in the month when my CV1 ships. BUT you do have reason to worry. Indications are that gauge reading will be no problem, but there has be absolutely no indication that spotting distant dots will be possible. My guess is that it will be possible, but not as good as a monitor, but the overall immersion will outweigh that problem for most people. Indications are that the difference is like night and day in most reviews, and its a phrase Wags used to compare DCS with the CV1, and DK2. Displays with the same resolution are not created equal, which is why IMHO believe the new CV1 custom VR display with high fill rate, etc etc, might be the best option for flight sims. Not to mention the custom optic lenses with a larger sweet spot, and no noticeable Fresnel lens ridges.