Hummingbird

Well I mean realistically it shouldn't be a match for the single engined fighters, neither was it ever meant to be. But as with anything you should never underestimate your foe, a great pilot can turn the tides. The Mosquito is a great strike aircraft, one the Germans had real trouble catching before it was out of their airspace again. The biggest threat to the Mosquito, the Me262, came too late to effectively counter it.

Yeah the FM's in IL2 are mostly quite unconvincing tbh.

No I understand that, however sometimes things need to be pressed a lot in order to go through, with pilots directly stressing they need it. It's basically what happened with the Leopard 2A7 deal, the gunners position finally got the 3rd gen thermal after the crews stressed how crucial it was, eventhough the deal where they weren't getting it had already been signed politically. I understand this isn't easy, esp. in a bureaucracy like that of Germany, but it can be done.

Back in WW2 Germany arguably spent too much on next generation tech, and not enough on current stuff. So that comparison doesn't really hold IMO. But the Bundeswehr certainly has a bad rep for sometimes refusing to update where it's necessary, which is silly considering Germany is the financial powerhouse in europe, and yet both Spain & Italy field versions of the EF with PIRATE.

It was dumb indeed, I just cannot fathom that mistake made twice. One would think the pilots stressed the absolute need for a passive detection system like this considering the proliferation of stealth among opposing forces. This is an area where you don't want to skip costs. That said, a similar issue was present initially during Germany's order for new Leopard 2A7 MBT's, where the initial order didn't include a new 3rd gen thermal sight for the gunner. This however changed closer to the procurement date, as the tankers stressed the absolute need for this, highlighting the absurdity of sticking with a 1st gen thermal system from the 80's for the gunner (the guy who actually has to shoot the gun!) whilst the commander got a 3rd gen one. Thus in the end the gunner got the 3rd gen thermal. I hope the same realization of need will occur in relation to the EF order.

I sincerely hope PIRATE will be on the 78+ aircraft delivered, not adding a passive detection system in this day and age makes very little sense. Deliveries are to be made in 2025 IIRC, so there is time for things to change a bit.

But the Kuwaiti EF's have PIRATE.

Well the Geman TIger attack heli is meant primarily for taking out tanks, which it will do far better than the French versions. The reason the GIAT auto cannon wasn't put on the German version was apparently because the Germans weren't happy with the recoil and resulting accuracy of the weapon, hence the recoilless Rheinmetall RMK30 was proposed. It was however in the end deemed unnecessary as the Tiger was primarily intended to take out enemy armour, and the weight saved by omitting the cannon would allow for the addition extra equipment purpose built for that role.

We'll see, but seeing as IRST has basically become std. equipment among the new generation aircraft, I believe these 78+ new LW EF's are going to come with PIRATE equipped. It would be a mistake if not.

Can't remember where I read it, but basically they were talking about making sure it had all the bells and whistles now available to the EF, which would also indicate the AMK as well some unspecified stuff relating to the FCAS.

A no emissions detection system is never without need I'd say, esp. not vs any advanced adversary. I believe PIRATE will be on the 78-93 new Tranche 4's Germany ordered.

My 3 best bets: - J-35F2 Draken - JA-37 Viggen - JAS-39 Gripen C

Based on the gun camera footage available most engagements with the chain gun appear to happen between 1 to 1.5 km (seen a few past 2 km too though), where'as attacks with guided missiles tend to be from 2 km or more it seems. Unguided rockets attacks appear to be the closest range ones. Again though, this is based solely on the footage available on liveleak and other sources, what the general rule of thumb amongst the crews is I have no idea.

It is without CFT's I'm talking about. As for changing mass distribution, once more I'm sure ED's F-15C FM has this modelled as well.

ED also had access to SME's AFAIK, and I got the word from a former F-15C pilot that the FM is very accurate. Furthermore the STR & ITR performance of ED's F-15C is litterally spot on the charts.

Well the lack of PIRATE and delayed acquisition of the meteor missile, despite it being mainly a German development, was a funding issue. Hopefully the latest order for 78-93 new EF's won't cut on spending, ensuring they come with all the bells and whistles now available (PIRATE, AMK, AESA etc)

Like I said performance will ofcourse differ, mainly due to differences in weight, but the flight characteristics should be virtually the same due to the near identical aerodynamic layout between the two. The problem occurs if Razbam's F-15E behaves noticably different in flight than ED's F-15C, as in having little or no similarity in flight control feel, as they should be virtually the same here. For example a clean 40,000 lbs F-15E should fly almost exactly like a clean 40,000 lbs F-15C, as bar the larger canopy the aerodynamic layout is the same, thus flight behavior (as well as performance in this case) should be similar.

I'd certainly be interested, but mostly in WW2 naval modules, and only as long as it's kept as realistic as possible in terms of the vessel's armour, armament & sailing performance.

Well, maybe in another 10 years On a serious note, I wonder why they're holding this back if its unclassified? I mean, if anyone can go read it (without taking pictures or making copies ofc), then what's so wrong with allowing HB access to the documents in order to simulate the F-14D ? If the documents were classified, I could understand it, but since they're not it just appears unnecessary. I guess the FOIA isn't worth much.

Good stuff

The flight characteristics are gonna be basically the same (due to identical aerodynamic layout), but the flight performance will not. On that note: A while ago I asked RAZBAM wether ED would help them with the FM, as ED's F-15C has a very accurate FM (esp. in terms of flight performance). The fear being that RAZBAM's F-15E FM will differ a lot from ED's F-15C, which would appear extremely strange and raise doubts as to its authenticity/accuracy.

A J-35F2 would be really cool.

@IronMike Was wondering, have you thought about merging your subforums? To avoid people posting about the EF all over the place

Good to hear some news on the subject

Hadn't seen that, and I've been looking, but that's great news. And thanks to NineLine for answering the question