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Everything posted by red_coreSix
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Flashing radar on while in EO mode for Russian planes
red_coreSix replied to JazonXD's topic in DCS: Flaming Cliffs
There is, IIRC the SU-27 (some version) pilot manual mentions it. Off course these aren't really simulated in-game, but the intent is there, it's not by accident. The LWS in the A-10 and KA-50 will only give an alarm once inside 5km or so, according to your theory they should at 50. Off course you could passively track them without having the radar on, you just won't have range when outside laser coverage. But AFAIK the radar is always used when tracking targets in EO, they seem pretty confident on its LPI abilities. The laser rangefinder is there to allow accurate gun employment at close range, the radar, in this range only mode, is probably not very accurate. -
Flashing radar on while in EO mode for Russian planes
red_coreSix replied to JazonXD's topic in DCS: Flaming Cliffs
IR itself only gives angle and angle rates. Radar gives range at long range and laser at closer range, that's how it works in reality and how it is documented and that's how it's represented in the sim. The IFF system is integrated in the radar, so when you turn the radar on in EO+ILL you're using the IFF antennas to IFF and the radar in a low frequency, LPI, range only mode for ranging, that is until you get into laser range. You can get from EO+ILL to RL by pressing "O". -
Flashing radar on while in EO mode for Russian planes
red_coreSix replied to JazonXD's topic in DCS: Flaming Cliffs
Below 4km, yes. Or are you saying the laser reaches out to 50km? -
Flashing radar on while in EO mode for Russian planes
red_coreSix replied to JazonXD's topic in DCS: Flaming Cliffs
It is in DCS, where else would the EO get range information on a locked target from? -
Yes, quantity matters as does geometry. Head-on chaff does nothing, the closer you get to the beam the more effective chaff becomes, in the beam it's, from my experience, 100% effectiveness. Flying away from the missile, i.e. putting the chaff between yourself and the missile, is very effective as well but only if you really line it up.
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Chaff currently only affects missiles in flight. It won't do anything against FCRs and won't interfere with detection at all. It's a shame but that's how it works.
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RWR memory.
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Well, whether it's "realistic" or not is debatable. But it's almost universally accepted that RWRs of the generations we have simulated in DCS are incapable of decoding the m-link that guides the AIM-120 mid-course. All RWRs in DCS will give a scan indication when the missile is guided via data-link in TWS and a launch indication when actively homing, except the mirage's RWR. It has been known for a while and AFAIK RAZBAM never commented on it.
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Well, some IRCCM techniques are designed to specifically reduce the number of flares in the seekers FOV or reduce the time the seeker is exposed to them by moving the seeker forward along the vector of the target. This would be done as soon as the flare detection is triggered, so consequential flares wouldn't have any effect on the seeker until the flare detection is timed out. I'm far away from saying those older seeker design are immune to flare, they absolutely aren't, but it's more complicated than "x number of flares=seeker deceived every time" ;) Really? I was talking about the R-73 by the way, which just shifts the DMPI to avoid hitting the exhaust plume and hit more critical parts of the airplane (i.e. canopy). I've seen telemetry of the IRIS-T in endgame against a MiG-29 (If I can dig it out, I'll post it here) and there was enough detail visible to target specific parts (especially because the canopy is much colder than the rest of the aircraft).
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The R-73 seeker is tricky. Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/prep.200600001/full Here it is stated as CAT seeker with either mono- or dual-colour detector. All I know is that the R-73 sparked the development of the IRIS-T, ASRAAM and AIM-9X and had some progressive features for its time like shifted aim-point to hit more vulnerable parts like the pilot etc. For flare rejection, it is a pointless topic to discuss, really. There are so many variables that go into it. The most important being flare detection, most con and spin scan seeker have a "switch-response" logic, meaning when the flare detection goes off the response is initiated. There are many detection and response methods, some may work for one flare but not at all for another. Good example for non FPA-seeker rejecting quite a lot of flares:
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Not everything sees blobs. A spin/con scan-seeker "sees" targets as sine waves. The don't have pixels nor anything else that would create an image. The seeker you're referring to is a rosette-scan seeker. Specifically the one from the FIM-92, given that that is a IR/UV design as well, as depicted in your image. A spin/con scan seeker usually locks something, then tries to hold lock on that target, doesn't matter if that's a flare or an airplane.
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The idea that a certain amount of flares will 100% spoof any non FPA seeker is wrong for a number of reasons. Firstly, the flares deployed have to match the filter that is placed in front of the seeker that is to be deceived. These filters are there to block out background noise like the sun or ground clutter but also to specifically home in on certain wavelengths of IR light from the engine exhaust that a flare might not produce. It's a cat and mouse game, but one can't guarantee that any number of flares greater than x will deceive a specific seeker, they might not work at all. Secondly, con/spin scan seeker don't see blobs, they're non imaging. They see something or they don't, on or off. They can however discriminate between point targets and clutter. Depending on what IRCCM techniques the seeker is employing they might be able to reject any number of flares deployed by the aircraft as long as certain criterias are matched (aircraft flying in a straight line, non maneuvering, not changing throttle). It's a very vague subject to discuss but simply saying any non FPA missile will be decoyed eventually doesn't do it justice.
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Flashing radar on while in EO mode for Russian planes
red_coreSix replied to JazonXD's topic in DCS: Flaming Cliffs
Yes, although this will only put you into RL mode. You can, with a target locked in EO+ILL press O once to turn EO off, this will force the FCS into RL. Similarly you can force an EO lock from EORL if you press I. -
Flashing radar on while in EO mode for Russian planes
red_coreSix replied to JazonXD's topic in DCS: Flaming Cliffs
The radar in this mode might only transmit a couple pulses every now and then. A RWR needs multiple pulses to even register the new emitter not even mentioning calculating angle of arrival and ID. We don't know the waveform used by the N001 in this mode but it's safe to assume that it was LPI against RWRs of the generation that was in service at the time of it's introduction. That's a good rule of thumb for LPI in general. If the receiver is from the same or earlier time frame as transmitter then a claimed LPI waveform is probably working. Newer receiver tend to detect older LPI signals. -
I'll see what I can do about the KH-58s. At the moment KO is hosted on one of our NA servers which I don't have access to. That is a temporary solution as we're currently very limited in terms of server resources. It will all go back to normal eventually but l can't promise when that'll be.
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Flashing radar on while in EO mode for Russian planes
red_coreSix replied to JazonXD's topic in DCS: Flaming Cliffs
Maybe that's a side-effect of flaws from the N001 being modeled? It has some problem with ground clutter when rolling at low altitude for example. -
Flashing radar on while in EO mode for Russian planes
red_coreSix replied to JazonXD's topic in DCS: Flaming Cliffs
That, but the radar is in fact used even when you're in "EO only" mode. The system uses the radar in a low power, low frequency mode for ranging when outside of laser range. This mode is supposed to be LPI for older RWRs so it's more or less realistic that it doesn't trigger our RWRs. -
Flashing radar on while in EO mode for Russian planes
red_coreSix replied to JazonXD's topic in DCS: Flaming Cliffs
The laser ranger is only active when tracking a target with IRST in STT. Scanning with IRST will not use the laser. Edit: Laser range for OLS-27 against airborne target is stated as 4km IIRC. -
We have a new dedicated server thread: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3111157#post3111157 Please refer to this one for updates and general discussion
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No, that shouldn't be that way. The radar doesn't change waveform when bugging a target in TWS. It makes no sense that you'd loose track just like that.
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Apparently F-4s over Germany:
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I think a lot of the guidance logic is in the encrypted part of the code.
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Oh right, blind speeds. I confused that with the N001/019 loosing lock at low altitude when rolling beyond 120°.
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I'm not too sure but I think it had something to do with sidelobe clutter in older radars, especially the N001/N019.