VitMax

To be honest, I also feel that it is easier to fly. It feels less twitchy. If I had to guess, I'd say that devs lowered speed with which AP makes its inputs, so pilot has more time to react. Although, maybe, it's just self-suggestion

Для пуска ПТУРов петровичем можно использовать ту же кнопку, что и для пуска неуправляемого вооружения. В реальности так, конечно, нельзя, но для сима сделали такое упрощение

А планируется ли когда-нибудь в будущем научить Петровича-оператора пускать ПТУРы с висения недокументированным способом? Тем, который представляет из себя пуск с положительным тангажом и последующим наведением прицельной марки на цель во время полёта ракеты. Это, конечно, не самая нужная вещь, но было бы неплохо, если бы его такой методике когда-нибудь обучили.

PilotMi8 just confirmed that fix for AP/Trim issue wasn't included in the last patch. As far as I understood from his words, they missed including it by accident.

PilotMi8 just confirmed that fix for AP/Trim issue wasn't included in the last patch. As far as I understood from his words, they missed including it by accident.

Пожалуйста) Рад помочь

Вот видео, которое я месяц назад ещё снимал на старой версии. Сейчас поведение такое же. Единственное, после патча я не проверял, как АП себя ведёт после ручной подстройки.

Вижу в чейнджлоге такой пункт: Исправлено: при нажатии на кнопку ТРИММЕР автопилот не переходил в режим согласования Но у меня автопилот не согласовывается, как и до патча. И на англоязычном форуме люди тоже жалуются, что поведение при нажатии кнопки триммера не изменилось. При этом, по ощущениям, вертолёт стал летать стабильнее и приятнее, но мне кажется, что причина только в уменьшении скорости, с которой автопилот может рулить. Хотя может это просто самовнушение, не знаю.

That's not a module feature and not a real world thing, but just a bug. It was confirmed by project lead PilotMi8.

It is hardware limitation caused by the fact that heli hovers with positive pitch, so missiles are tilted upward in the hover. There are several ways to shoot from hover, though Petrovich can only execute one of them. The worst one, unfortunately. By the book, you're supposed to get into hover, find target, and then lover your nose to get target into smaller ring on pilots sight to fire. When missile in the air you can get back into hover. That is the only way to shoot from hover with Petrovich as operator. With human operator, though, you can execute some "undocumented" launch techniques. One is to turn helicopter towards target in hover, get operator sight up, so it is in small ring of pilots sight, fire missile into the sky, and then lower the sight back on target while missile is flying. That requires some skill, but allows shooting from stable hover. To make it easier you can use x3 magnification, when launching, and change to x10, when sight is back on the target. Then there's third way, which I only know from other forum users description. There is a switch that opens up diaphragm. It is located somewhere near Observe switch. I'm not sure about exact location. If you turn it on, launch will be possible even when pilot's and operator's sights are not aligned. It is the easiest way to shoot from hover, but, as far as I understand, operator may lose control of missile, if his sight is too far from direction, in which missile is fired.

Do you have Airspeed to Doppler switch off on left panel? I'm not entirely sure, what it does, but it seems to mess up DISS.

Does your helicopter really drift that much visually? 40 degrees should be very noticeable. If not, then it might be a problem with DISS. Is anything illuminated on the drift indicator? And does it show correct ground speed at the bottom?

Широта на курсовой системе сразу стоит правильная. Карта вам даёт 32 градуса 40 минут. Это 32,66 градуса примерно. Округляем до десятых и получаем 32,7 -- то, что установлено на курсовой системе. Делать тут при запуске особенно ничего не нужно -- переключатель режимов в МК (магнитная коррекция) и кнопку согласования нажать и подержать немного. Я не проверял специально, но мне кажется, что в модуле курс при включении курсовой системы ставится корректно сразу, так что можно даже не согласовывать. В принципе, в реалиях DCS что-то ещё делать с курсовой системой и не нужно.

Про подкручивание – это я про восьмёрку. Там этим борттехник занимается. На 24-ке ничего крутить не надо. Это на что?

Ну не придирайтесь) Отключать АП надо только при хотстарте, потому что при этом при посадке в кабину автопилот уже включён и подстроен под нейтральное положение ручки, а не под положение для висения. Можно, конечно, просто кремальерами подкрутить, но это менее удобно, чем выключить и включить АП.

Вот да. Я в последние несколько дней уже исключительно хаткой триммирую, потому что с кнопкой бороться уже устал.

@Hawk109 Я в курсе, как триммировать вертолёт) То, что вы говорите, верно для Ми-8, в котором автопилот и триммер никак не связаны между собой. А в Ми-24 автопилот должен центрироваться при каждом нажатии на кнопку триммера. Да, на Ми-8 перед взлётом надо выключить АП, сняться с тормоза, поставить вертолёт "на цыпочки" небольшим увеличением шага, сбалансировать вертолёт ручкой, после чего снова включить АП. А вот на 24-ке это, насколько я понимаю, не нужно, потому что автопилот согласовывается при каждом нажатии кнопки триммера. И, кстати, в конце моего видео вы можете заметить, что даже ручная подстройка автопилота не помогает -- нажатие кнопки триммера полностью всё отменяет и возвращает АП в положение, которое было при его включении.

A week ago PilotMi8 was a guest on a stream at VargTV, and somebody in the chat had asked him about this AP problem. PilotMi8 had explained that he doesn't use trim at all, since he has a stick with no centering spring, so he couldn't see the problem. He had promised that devs will look at it, and explained that AP implementation was made even before 3d model was ready for testing in the sim, so things might have broken down since then. In Mi-24 pedals movement is dampened to provide a force for pilot to push against, but there are no centering forces at all. So, pedals just stay, where pilot had left them.

The middle counter is indeed for 30mm cannon. It's marked 30x2 and shows numbers from 0 to 125. I'm not quite sure why, but, probably, it shows number of rounds per barrel. And our cannon is double barreled. The outermost counters show either rounds left in 30mm GUV (30x1 marking) that hang on the pilons 1 and 4, or 7.62 mm machineguns in pods (7.62x4) hanging on pilons 2 and 3. The second and forth counter are for 30mm GUV on pilons 2 and 3, or for 12.7mm machineguns (12.7x5) on pilons 2 and 3. So, basically it means that counters can show amount of rounds left in 4 30mm GUVs, or 2 machinegun GUVs that are loaded onto inner pilons. And the main cannon, of course. This information is already available in Russian version of the manual, so it will, probably, be added to English manual soon.

The models of AP are different, of course. What I meant by "the same system" is that both helicopters have disconnectors that temporarily disable yaw channel when you put your feet on the pedals. But both helicopters in the sim lack this for obvious reasons of hardware limitations. As for coordinated turns, I'm not sure, what yaw channel is doing in our Hind as I didn't really test it that much. But I can tell you that AP in general seems buggy, so, maybe, yaw channel is also not working as intended right now. Yesterday I flew basic pattern in both Mi-24 and Mi-8 one after another to make sure that it's not my hands that cause Mi-24 to wobble around, and I can say that it is MUCH easier to fly Mi-8 smoothly. Mi-24 needs bugfixes for AP badly, because right now AP mostly just gets in the way of the pilot and makes helicopter harder to fly.

In the real helicopter there are special disconnectors on the pedals. When pilot puts his feet on the pedals, yaw channel temporarily disconnects, so it's possible to do a coordinated turn without fighting the AP. After the turn pilot can remove feet from pedals, which will cause AP to reengage and keep new heading. The same system is found on the Mi-8. In the sim it is not modeled. I usually fly with yaw channel off, because I have no springs in pedals, but before I removed the springs I was just turning yaw channel on and off manually with buttons on the joystick. Not the best solution, but it worked.

Tens of kilometers seems a bit excessive for paper map imprecisions. Also, who knows, maybe topographic maps in DCS really are that far from reality. As for the original question, DISS should operate just fine at low altitudes. I just did Syrian patrol instant mission and I flew the whole way at 5-25 meters over ground, and moving map was quite precise. In Mi-8 manual it says that system's internal deviation should be less than 1.5 km per every hour of flight. The only limitations for DISS are speed < 400 KPH (which is always true in our case), bank < 30 degrees, and pitch < 7 degrees. If those limits are exceeded, system goes into memory mode, in which it calculates position using the last accurate data. When you back in the allowed envelope, it will continue to work fine.

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe it just comes down to pilot's preference, whether to press-move-release, or move-press-release. It shouldn't have any effect on AP operation. The difference here is that when you press the button all forces on the stick are disabled, so it is not trying to move in any direction by itself. Some pilots prefer moving "weightless" stick, thus they do press-move-release, but it is not mandatory. The same applies to Mi-8, by the way. It is important for people, who use force feedback joysticks, but for anyone else there should be no difference. Ka-50 is the different story, because it's AP is an actual autopilot, while in Mi-8 and Mi-24 it is just a stability augmentation system (I am talking about pitch, bank, yaw, and alt channels now, not about route or hover modes in the Hind). The way Mi-24 AP works is better compared to director mode of Ka-50. And in this mode it does not matter, whether you move cyclic with button pressed, or not. Yes, I did mention that. And yes, it is accurate, so it's well suited for small adjustments. Also, to be honest, for now, until AP is fixed, I mostly use hat-trim even for big changes in cyclic position, as it does not disturb AP, and thus does not create any extra oscillation. It's not perfect, but it's easier to fly than with button trim.

The AP behavior when trim button is pressed is bugged currently, which was acknowledged by devs and few real world pilots over at the russian side of the forums. To trim you do not need to press button, move stick, and then release it, like in Ka-50. It doesn't really matter, when you pressed the button, only when you released it. So, in this regard it should be operated just like in Mi-8 — move the stick and then click trim button. But, at the same time, AP in Mi-8 and Mi-24 work differently. In Mi-8 AP is not connected to trim in any way, so from AP point of view it doesn't matter, whether you just moved stick into new position, or trimmed it there. In this helicopter AP will always try to correct a little towards position, in which cyclic was, when AP was turned on. To have maximum AP authority in the new stick position you need to manually adjust knobs on AP panel, so that all the bars on the indicators are centered. On the other hand, in Mi-24 AP is connected to trim mechanism. When trim button is pressed, AP centers at this new cyclic position automatically, so it has maximum authority for compensating any possible deviation. Unfortunately, right now in the sim this process is bugged. When you press the button, AP centers on the new position, but when you release it, AP just goes back to the old position, which is incorrect. That causes helicopter to move it's nose a little towards the position, in which AP was turned on. And that's why right now trimming causes unintended movement. So, we just have to wait for a bugfix. Hopefully, it'll not be long. P.S. The hat-switch trim works independently of AP. It does not recenter AP, so it actually works as intended in the sim. You can use it for smoother control instead of button trim.

По поводу автопилота и триммера записал небольшое видео, показывающее баг автопилота. Коротко: при нажатии кнопки триммера планки автопилота уходят в нейтральное положение, как и должны, а вот при отпускании некорректно съезжают в положение, которое было до нажатия кнопки, вызывая покачивание вертолёта. Что интересно: даже если вручную подстроить планки в нейтраль с помощью кремальер на панели автопилота, после триммирования всё снова съезжает в неправильное положение, которое определяется тем, где была ручка в момент включения каналов крена и тангажа.