propeler

It is nor about better. It is about what you need. Stronger force just allows to get closer to realistic forces. But it is always a tradoff. It will be heavier. Need to be mounted on the floor or strong rig and so on.

You can DIY it for cheap. There is even "Poor man's Whole 3d Printed"

The list of module readines to FFB: - none... There is no single module that is ready, realistic, or even close. There could be FFB for some extent in game. But it is mostly primitive and not takes into account device that will be reproducing effects. All "realism" is around effects generated from telemetry by FFB device developers software and matter of how close to reality someone can make a profile for it. In most cases it's just an reflection of thoughts how some airplane could feel.

All requested grips will be added (including collectives). I do not have all for tests so will be adding them when there will be a person ready to test and give feedback what to adjust in implementation.

It is not an issue. It is intended behavior. VPC devices are made to work with their own protocol communicating with their own controllers. And this protocol officially is not open. The fact that Rhino "hacked" it and uses in their devices only means Virpil Controls do not care about it so much(for now...). But for bigger companies just using "hacked" protocols not only the question of business ethic, but also a question of risks connected to legal issues. Of cause, Moza is company from China and at some point can decide to add "hacked" VPC grips support just ignoring mentioned facts, but for now they decided not to do it.

No. Just updating firmware. Cable connection is the same as for thrustmaster

No. You don't. FFBeast works on it's own. May be you are confused with grip connection. At the moment FFBeast controller supports natively only Thrustmaster grips. So you need to connect VKB or VPC grips to their original controllers. But things are changing. We cooperate with Virpil Controls on adding officially support for their grips. In next version (that will be available very soon) Mongoos, Alpha Prime R and FLNKR already will be supported. Other grips will come later.

There is limit. Always. The limit is - quality for price. If it will be a cheap trash - nobody need it. Seeing in review what is inside of the base(inside is the clone of Brunner by the way, which cost 3x times more) it is already cheap. Even Rhino is cheap for what it gives considering that it is monopoly now

Down to what? Rhino is more than reasonably priced! Moza is already dirty cheap! How much less price do you need?

That's what I'm talking about all this time. If something is possible theoretically, it does not mean it will turn into commercial product. Even now you can purchase electronic components for DIY FFB 9-10Nm for around 120$, build enclosure for it from plywood or any other material, 3D print gimbal, spend some time for assembling it in your garage and got device for cheap. But turn it into commercial product - is totally different story.

Continue to dream I bet there will not be FFB base cheaper than 500$ in next 3-4 years. There will not be FFB joystick cheaper than 400$ - EVER! It means - it is a copy LOL. By the way, VKB have patent on their twist module. Moza copied it even keep twist lock screw at the exactly the same place.

All you are saying is just a "common words" from person who just wants cheap FFB joystick, who overestimates factors which can make things cheaper, and underestimates opposites. I have only one question for you - if everything is so easy, why we do not have such device yet? You consider VPC, VKB, WinWing, Thrustmaster, Logitec who are on the market for years now, to be just a stupid companies who do not see a success with the cheap budget FFB joystick? I do not think so Absence of such device is the direct sign that everything is not so easy as you describe. I'm sure all of them already did real math with good understanding of the market (I'm sure they have better data on what users want then me or you) and that's why we do not have such device(and have what they showed instead). You overestimate power of patent Aha.... Exactly.... Ursa Minor is the example P.S. I do not work on the Rhino P.S.S. But I consider Rhino is a better option than Moza for the price

You can propose them The problem is that it is not as easy to make smaller device. Bigger device is easier to build. A lot easier! A LOT! Smaller price do not make things cheaper. Usually it makes things more expensive. Miniaturization costs money. We do not have such small devices not because nobody want to make it, but because it is extremely difficult engineering task - to pack device, that will met people expectation in force and smoothness, in form factor able to be used tabletop, and for the price that can be considered "budget device". It is so difficult and expensive, that nobody takes a risk of doing it first! Game theory take place there. Because as soon as somebody introduce such design - it will be copied. And company who will copy it - will be the winner. Developer of original - will be the looser. As he will spend funds on RND and will not get reward of it, because to compensate RND he will need to make price higher than whoever clone his product. And higher price - less sells. Dead circle. Nobody want to be a looser

Then no. You should not expect something like it. As to build something similar to Ursa Minor FFB you need another company invest in RND of the project many years and then some China companies can clone their already selling well product (Ursa minor is a clone of Gladiator NXT, WinWing just changed external design a bit, and slapped couple of buttons to Kosmosima grip). Moza FFB is either a clone of Brunner or Rhino FFB base. I bet 99% it is some adaptation of one of those bases. And to make something similar to MSFFB for cheap - Someone need to do it for "not so cheap" first.

What is "low price" for you?

You relay too much on what DirectX FFB could propose. Current implementation of FFB even in DCS for most crafts is extremely rudimentary... So I would better have good telemetry then DirectX support. At least telemetry allows to produce variety of effects DCS do not produce via DirectX FFB.

Fully 3d printed version. No metal work.

Yes. And not only discord https://ffbeast.github.io/ and discord is https://discord.gg/Gt6rnvrZKu

Man, what are you talking about? Do you name sub 1000$ flight gears "Ferrari"? It's price of entry level hardtail bicycle nowadays! The cheapest flight sim oriented chair "Next Level Racing Boeing Flight Simulator" cost just a little less (and it is just welded tubes with cheap chair attached to it). In terms of comparison to cars all present on the market now (including Brunner) is not even Toyota Corolla. It is closer to Yaris as most. What you propose to produce will be closer to Fiat Seicento Ferrary will be a full CNCd base made of titanium, with industrial servo motors 50Nm+. And will cost the price

I would not I would advice all to buy any FFB base you can buy. As early as possible. The more FFB devices people will own the better will be support of FFB in games - and it will be better for all! FFB in flight controls will not stop. We are in the time of changes. And the same as with VR just waiting for ideal VR headset you loose the time of enjoying it.

600 Eur actually. So my prediction was correct.

You've missed 1 digit in the price

It requires to develop mechanics from scratch. It is totally another cost. WinWing and Moza showed their devices. It is already not what you describing. Nobody will be throwing away existing design. Next 2-3 years Moza and WinWing will be selling what showed. And only if it will show huge sales - will start working on other devices. Because it is just a clone. Cloning successful devices and playing game "invest in something with uncertain future" are totally different thingth Serious devices from WinWing are not cheap in any case.

Market of cheap plastic devices is oversaturated. Market of FFB - no. Them do not need to make cheap device - them just need to make it a little cheaper than competitors. And it is not me or VPForce. We are too smal fishes for monsters. WinWing and Moza will compete each other to get the market. And who will tell the price first - will lose the game :) As who will be the second just set price 50$ lower That's how market works. 500$ is my very very optimistic lower boundary. There is a high chance that it will be closer to Brunner base in price - just because them CAN to put any price on it! Just more marketing, pay some youtube influencers and people will be buying it on any price. Just look into simracing market. Devices there cost much-much higher(being much simpler) - and people buying them.