whitav8

A measure that I think could be really important is the number of clearly detectable visual "stutters" per 10 seconds or so ( just a quick example ). This would be like Qcumber's smoothness but would try to actually find in the data a visually detectable stutter. Surely the really long frames maybe 3 ( or so) msec greater than the average are stutters but also it might be the difference in msec. from one frame to another or some algorithm. It's not clear to me just what we should look for. When I try to use SSW on the Quest3 in "automatic" mode, I think it looks worse because it shifts from 36FPS to 72FPS frequently. I would rather disable SSW but try to choose DCS settings that keep this "stutter rate" below a certain value. I wish I could actually control the generation of a stutter so I could test to see how to measure from XRFrameTools data. Also, I do expect DCS itself with changing scenery chunks or maybe turn rate in a dogfight to generate stutters but what I want to dig out are more like stutters that are caused by exceeding the graphics "headroom". A challenging subject.

The spreadsheets do not expect the third column in the CSV file called "Display XrTime" (added by the v020) so you can either delete that column in the CSV file or add a column to the T1, T2,...Data copy area. At least that was something I had to deal with.

Qcumber, Could you please confirm which versions(s) of XRFrametools you use - one for capture and possibly second for conversion to CSV. Thanks much!

Thanks for the details of your overclocking of 5080. I can get the same (9200 or so) Steel Nomad 10% improvement results with +300MHz GPU Boost and +2000Mhz Memory Clock Boost which the GPU Tweak OC Scanner thinks are too aggressive but seem to work just fine. I need to check some tracks with XRFrameTools. Unfortunately with MSFS2024, now I am not GPU limited but CPU (9800X3D) limited ( 12+ msec.). Interesting that DCS keeps the CPU frametime portion much lower (5 msec.) so that GPU improvements are key.

Could you please repeat your overclock parameters (GPU clock, memory clock, etc..) Qcumber. I realize that each card may be different but I would like to compare. I am really impressed with the 5080 for both DCS and MSFS - 72Hz/FPS most of the time.

Thanks for the quick response and suggestions, Qcumber. This is quite interesting. Even at 72 or 80,90 - I am interested in how many msec. over the frame budget (13.8, 12.5, 11.1) and how many consecutive frames that are, for example, 3 msec. different before we "easily" see a stutter. Obviously there will be scenery load stutters that we have to live with but just what constitutes an objectionable stutter?

I have had success with Qcumber's analysis plots and find them fine grain detailed especially when comparing between two different variations. I also decided to try CapFrameX as a means to try to measure just basic total frametime and get plots a little easier even though it doesn't have as detailed a result. If you haven't tried it... Also, I wondered if "real" frametime and therefore "real" FPS is something like 1 / (MAX(CPU_render, GPU_render) + SubmitCPU) > In other words, it seems like we have to add in 1-2 milliseconds in order to get what is really our "worst" numbers that we have to keep less than 13.88 msec for us 72Hz Quest3 folks. I received my 5080 and will install it later this week - very heavy (support needed??) and somewhat cumbersome with the three 6 pin power cable adapter!

Sorry but I can't access the "version 2" of XRFrameTools- is that maybe an older version 0.4 which I did find.

Thanks so much for posting your amazing efforts in this Qcumber. This type of analysis helps us find the best solutions and maybe find some work arounds for code that wasn't actually written with "real-time programming" methods in mind - although I am very pleased that it (DCS) almost works well. When I helped code the Boeing 777 model in the early 1990s, we decided on a 10 millisecond frame time since that was the frame time of the real Fly-By-Wire system. We had an 8 physical CPU system with a shared memory backplane ( functionally similar to our 9800X3D) that cost $350,000 each - and we bought 50 of the systems (test pilot training and systems test) before we certified the 777 in 1995. We did use a background thread for the Flight Management System which controlled route flying. Please keep us posted on your results. I will get started running similar tests even now with my 3080ti before I get the 5080.

Have any of you done any special tweaking at the BIOS level either for the 9800X3D (Curve Optimizer, Overclocking, etc) or 5080? I'm not sure that matters much compared to game settings., but maybe every little bit helps. Also, any focus on maybe just CPU#1 or OS resource priority/isolation changes? I'm working to get 72Hx/FPS for MSFS as well - much more difficult than DCS but interesting as well. Thanks for leading the way. I get my 5080 next week.

Please keep testing and tweaking this combination of 9800X3D and RTX 5080 or similar equipment. The concept of running in VR without motion reprojection (ASW,SSW,smoothing,...) would be such a wonderful state for VR. Maybe not for all of us, but we have lived through lots of VR stuttering for the last five or six years and it would be great to finally get over that hurdle. Obviously, it wouldn't be perfect - some temporary extra load of the GPU or terrain data loading,etc - but close to "fluid". Qcumber - could you please post your histogram code/script for a spreadsheet. I am doing similar testing with XRFrametools and think your histogram plots tell us a lot Thanks Dave

Please keep testing and tweaking this combination of 9800X3D and RTX 5080 or similar equipment. The concept of running in VR without motion reprojection (ASW,SSW,smoothing,...) would be such a wonderful state for VR. Maybe not for all of us, but we have lived through lots of VR stuttering for the last five or six years and it would be great to finally get over that hurdle. Obviously, it wouldn't be perfect - some temporary extra load of the GPU or terrain data loading,etc - but close to "fluid".

Qcumber, Could you possibly post your histogram scripts for excel/spreadsheet. I would like to do some similar testing on my rig. I suppose I could figure it out but... Thanks in advance Dave

I don't see any indication from the VD overlay - I imagine that the missing frame(s) is 1 or 2 out of 72 - but my eyes notice it!

Jive, yes I'm on PTC in order to get v69. The disabling of "allow remote connection" did not help but changing to HEVC 10bit (3000 series can't use AV1??) did eliminate the black/missing frames - however, there are side effects in smoothness to that codec. Thanks - I guess that says that using H.264+ has some problems with DCS

Maddaawg, Thanks for the help! Yes I am still on a 9700 at 4.8Ghz (all 8 cores). I am just using the H.264+ at maybe 300Mbps. I will try AV1. Not only do I not see the black/missing frames on MSFS2020 but I do not remember this issue one or two months ago with whatever then was the latest version of DCS. Thanks

I am seeing with v68/v69, Nvidia 556.12, wifi6e + Virtual Desktop (Godlike-3080ti at 72Hz - no SSW), and DCS 2.9.6.58056, black missing frames with Quest3 at the rate of maybe 2 or 3 per 10 seconds. I don't know whether it is several black/missing frames or just one but I imagine since I notice it, that it must be several. My frame rate probably is dropping less than 72FPS at times. I don't see this issue with the same settings using MSFS2020 even though my FPS = 46 to 52 (down from 72 with DCS)

Not suggesting that you jump on the Public Test Channel for both Quest3 and Meta Quest PC Link/Airlink because there may be other issues - but at least OXRTK is functional again during VR operation and doesn’t cause CTD during startup. These are the full version info numbers: Quest 3 68.0.0.507.364 Meta Quest Link PCVR 68.0.0.474.361 I tried Airlink and Link both. I normally use Virtual Desktop but wanted to try Meta Link.

The focus depth might be somewhat different for the Quest 3

Thanks for the response Qcumber. I really should have asked how much roughly is QVFR faster than FFR from OpenXR toolkit since I already use that (but is it really active with Virtual Desktop - even though I see the appCPU/GPU timings??)

Just how much (percentage) roughly does quad-view foveated rendering improve performance for a Quest3 on a RTX3080ti running godlike resolution?

Try running at 72Hz ( 36 FPS ) and using Virtual Desktop (Godlike mode 3000x3000 res) using a Wifi5 AX ($50) or wifi6e AXE second router ($150) setup as an Access Point (reserved static IP, DNS) connected by 1Gbps cable to first router which is connected to PC with 1Gbps cable. See Virtual Desktop Discord for example routers DCS Settings: VR Tab Pixel Density 1.2->1.3 and enable HMD mask System: Res of Cockpit Displays: 1024 , Antialiasing off, Upscaling: Off, Shadows: Flat Only Flat Shadows Blur: Off, Civ Traffic: Off, Water: Low Lower Forest and Scenery Detail, Rain Droplets: disabled OpenXR Toolkit : Some FSR or NIS or CAS

Color-panel as mentioned just above works very well (BUT JUST FOR MSFS) - just set the passthrough color in Virtual Desktop (Streaming at the bottom center ) to purple with a small amount of threshhold in VD. Then when you are flying in VR mode, the Toolbar will then have a tab just to the left of center to enable it. Then you just move the panel to where you want it and size it. When you click on it to minimize it so you can see on the other side of it, it leaves a small outline and a small circle in the center of the passthrough panel to reenable it. I found that if I selected the panel by holding down the left mouse button, I could "bring" the panel toward me which helped my eye distance focus. I asked in the review comments if the addon author could make it work for DCS but no answer yet

How do you set this up?

I didn't see you mention loading OpenComposite dlls and replacing openvr_api.dll - do some Google searching.