Bearfoot

(1) then add some delay to execution. This is, in fact, how jester is modeled now with other aspects anyway. Point is to reduce the fiddling with game interface (menus's etc) and keep focus on the world. If the sole justification of the menu being more realistic is to force a delay, then it is the least realistic way to go about doing it (as opposed to having jester take a while to respond). (2) "fly 120 steady... got some LBS to drop".. Yep, would LOVE to fly that way. So the solution would be to get Jester smart enough to carry out the mission (including decided what to drop, how to drop, when to drop etc., covering both preplanned or ad hoc targets) and just tell the pilot how/where to fly or radically upgrade Iceman so that the (single) player can take up the RIO seat 100% while Iceman flies reasonable combat maneuevers. Either of those would be the realistic simulation approach. But again, not seeing how going through a complex series of multiple steps on a graphical menu that obscures pilot vision and takes up pilot attention is more realistic than just binding the commands to a key. But again, I have never sat in either seat IRL nor have I done a single A2G mission in the Tomcat yet!

Could you locate the sound files and individual boost or quieten them? Perhaps copy them as a mod and work on the copy? This gets an upvote from me.

I'm not sure how: pressing a button/key to ... simulate saying to the simulated person in the back, e.g. "do this" is any less realistic than pressing a button that ... calls a menu (maybe simulating some phantasmagorical dial projected holographically into your vision???) that ... you then have to select an option and then .. pressing a button/key to ... simulate saying to the simulated person in the back, e.g. "do this" But hey, what do I know? I've never flown the Tomcat IR (nor have I started dabbling with A2G/Lantirn in the sim). (And sure, you can use VoiceAttack to bring things closer to reality with the latter ... but then you can do the exact same with the former as well. And once setup right, from the point of view of PVI, it's exactly the same).

Thank you for this. This was very helpful. For anyone else reading this, even if you understand the fundamental theory of why there is adverse yaw, if you have no formal training or actual exposure to practical flying like me you might find that last bit especially useful just as a practical demonstration of the effect and its correction. This was the "missing piece" for me, and actually seeing it happen in a real demo was the catalyst I needed to bring together lots of vague ideas. The link below is cued to that time.

Basics ... with probably the only better looking jet to ever grace the USN inventory

"back to basics" --- this implies that that we were had the basics at some point previously. I, at least, don't! LOL. Working through this as I go along, on whatever time I have between day job and family, and depending on the kindness/time/experience/understanding of other folks to "correct the sideslips", as it were.

Agree with this completely. I think that there is some overlap between flying skills learned fighting AI and multiplayer, and definitely it's a good place to start. Especially to build up an understanding of the basic aerobatic components of BFM and the limits of your aircraft as well as skills such as spotting (which, IMHO, is 50-75% of the fight!). However, from a tactical perspective, the fact is that all the AI typically does is an infinite series of loops. So: (a) they are predictable; and (b) you really are not exposed to, or develop skills to counter/overcome, any other gameplan. The differences in the various AI aircraft are less to do with being more realistic, but rather better or worse (artificial/unrealistic) performance. The tougher ones definitely give you a workout! So my suggestion is this: fly both SP/offline and online. Don't do what I did --- wait and wait and wait and wait to get online, playing SP until I felt comfortable enough, and then get online and get creamed. Instead, start off right away with a mix --- e.g., 50% SP and cap off the week/session by some MP online fights. This will allow you to recognize the differences between how real humans fly/fight and how the AI does, as well develop the basic skills in the ego-safety of SP, and maximize cross-application of skills. Set up some SP missions. Fly these for the first 50% of your weekly flight hours. Maybe more (e.g. 80%) until you are comfortable with the aerobatic and basic principles. But definitely not exclusively. In each, start off with two aircraft 10-15 nm apart, at co-altitude, headed toward each other. One aircraft is assigned to PLAYER, the other with skill level at the highest. Both aircraft at 75% fuel, no bags/missiles. The ranking captain_dalan gives above is great --- start with the easiest and work your way up for adversaries. You can actually get a little easier than the "Su-27": e.g., the Su-17. You will eventually move from being confused and not knowing what is happening and getting shot to generally having the initiative most of the time (owning the angles) though maybe not quite able to shoot the other down without difficulty to being able to do so with ease. Spotting and keeping eyes-on will be the biggest challenge, especially as you fly VR. You are going to need to decide whether you want labels or not. My advice: train the way you plan to fight. If your MP server has labels, by all means keep labels on. Other keep labels OFF. Labels ON is not just a "helper". It is a totally different way to fight/fly. [*] Get on an MP server. At least some of the time. 50% if you can. Maybe 20% to start with. But spend as much time as you can here preferentially. I suggest "Just Dogfights". Get your a$$ handed to you in the first 5 seconds of an engagement. Take the knocking to your ego. Choose another slot. Repeat. Eventually, your engagement times will increase. And soon (ok, maybe not so soon), you will be swatting others out of the sky like flies. Cycle between SP/MP. As your skills improve in SP (and the fights become more and more easier), transition to spending more and more time in MP. I HIGHLY recommend the Just Dogfights server. It is perfect for this. And fun.

+100000 (1) especially is so problematic that I think it should be considered a bug! SUGGESTION: Key-bind to center Jester menu (2) Yaaas! SUGGESTION: Key-bind to close Jester menu

Well, then mystery solved. The Tomcat does, indeed, have proverse yaw. And adverse yaw. Often in the same turn. So coordinated flight at low AoA or high speed would typically would involve a only a momentary touch of opposite rudder.

Actually, at least to my reading, this has added a lot more confusion to the issue. We are --- always have been --- talking about a coordinated turn. Which is not, AFAIK, the same thing as a level turn. A coordinated turn is turn without sideslip. A level turn is a turn without change in altitude. You can have a coordinated turn that is not level. Can you have a level turn that is uncoordinated? Maybe. But either way, I think they are pretty different issues. Now, don't get me wrong --- it took me a while to get a level turn down (on the break, especially) in this bird, and that would be a great discussion to have. But it is a separate discussion.

What I see is just a momentary "spike" of proverse yaw and then followed by adverse yaw as I settle into the turn. Rolls > 60 degrees of bank have very pronounced adverse yaw following the bob in the opposite direction. So, if I roll left, the ball bobs right for just a second or so and then slides down to center with maybe a tad left bias. So at most I need to just briefly tap ever-so-gently a touch of opposite rudder in the beginning, but for the remainder or most of the turn I need rudder in the direction of turn. I tried this with wings swept and wings auto, SAS on/off, etc. etc. Is this what you expect to see when experiencing proverse yaw? I guess I was thinking it would be more pronounced.

Because some people (I use the term with reservation) get their ego high's from cheating and winning in online play.

Would you be able to point out, or reproduce the specific text describing the slip(s)? I am trying to collate info on this, and so far there has been a lot of ambiguity.

I have been trying hard to get myself into proverse yaw, and I have not yet succeeded or if I have, I am too dumb to recognize it.

Just ran through a bunch of turns under different conditions (high speed / low speed, high AoA / low AoA, wings swept back / wings auto, SAS on / off). I only see adverse yaw ... except under very slow / high AoA conditions. But even in the latter, initially the nose goes up in the direction opposite of bank and only as it settles into bank does the the nose drop down: i.e., both adverse and proverse yaw, with adverse yaw coming first. But maybe I am doing or reading it wrong? If someone can show proverse yaw that would be great!

:D :thumbup:

I'm probably wrong, but from what I can find in terms of open source information, I don't think there is more documentation on the B available than the D.

Yes, TBH, I am confused as to the direction of yaw during turns. I tried rolling without rudder at low AoA, moderate speed, and as best I can make out it is adverse yaw requiring rudder in the direction of the roll to coordinate. I did not check my wing sweep (on auto) and it possible that fully-swept wings may have different behavior from unswept in this regard? Digging through Natops: 11.5.6 11.3.4 11.5.5 11.5.2 Dihedral Effect Furthermore the heatblur video on the FM speaks ambiguously about "both adverse and proverse" yaw during rolls: and as best I can make out, in the actual example shown, it looks like adverse yaw but I could not tell the speed,AoA, or wing sweep. Perhaps someone smarter, more knowledgable, more experienced than me would be kind enough to have videos showing the different yaw characteristics at different AoA / speeds when uncoordinated?

According to 01-F14AAP-1: but/and

Interesting notes on flying to Tomcat relevant to this discussion : https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3882538/F-14_Questions_Answered_-_Ask_ https://fightersweep.com/6173/f-14-tomcat-tales-in-the-break-at-nas-key-west/ The idea of not just using rudder to roll at high AoA, but also adding in stick in the opposite direction of the roll is supported here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3285407&postcount=9

+1 on the "D" for me, too. In fact, make that +2. At full price (and by that I mean whatever Heatblur wants for it)

Thanks. Sorry to mislead. Yes, I use rudder in BFM. Constantly. Arguably more than stabilator roll even. I just meant that I use rudder roll not just in high AoA BFM, but also other flight regimes. As for working in low AoA regimes .... yes? It seems to? Shooting down a valley following a river at high speed, I find the slight roll/banks induced by just rudder input works fine.

Yikes. Which is it? Agreed! In fact, I find myself using rudder roll at low AoA / high-speeds as well. Whether "correct" or "incorrect", it feels right? Not so much in BFM but when practicing flying in "Star Wars canyon" runs (e.g., following rivers through valleys in the Caucasus).

So it's proverse yaw at low AoA (requiring opposite rudder) and adverse yaw at high AoA (requiring rudder in same direction as turn)? I thought it was the other way around. And that may explain some of my confusion! The other confusion I had with the fixed-mountaintop exercise: from the video it seems we use it to practice rolling/banking, but not actually turning. That is, your heading stays the same and that's how you have a static point of reference. I thought we were using the distant feature as a reference while actually turning, i.e. changing heading. In another thread, Victory mentioned that rudder input is required only with lateral deflection of stick, then as this is relaxed and you pull back to turn, you remove the rudder input. This is with respect to the break turn on landing, but if it applies more generally then I can see the above exercise helping generally too. However, if you want to check/practice coordination throughout an actual turn (i.e., while your heading changes) --- which was what I was trying to do --- then I guess the turn-and-slip indicator is all you have? When in dogfighting/BFM, I usually just "go with the flow", working all controls (stick, rudder, throttle) simultaneously without thinking about coordination etc. to just get pointed where I want to point. I do not actually come off too bad because of my previous (simulated) warbird experience. But just want to be sure I am doing things "correctly" by the numbers/book as well as "right" by the feel/intuition, if you know what I mean. So I would like to build up my airmanship skills. The F-14 is the first DCS jet that I've tried to learn how to fly fully as my typical sim experience is otherwise 50% helos / 50% warbirds. The simulated warbird experience has help develop a lot of intuition with regards to rudder especially, but I find that it is only partially translating to the F-14. And, weirdly, I love that! It is presenting such a different and such an enjoyable challenge! It honestly is the most fun I've had learning to fly ....

Ok, I tried this, and to be honest, I'm confused. If my nose is pointing at a mountaintop and I bank to the left to initiate a turn, the mountaintop immediately moves away from the nose. So with the lineup lost between the nose and the mountaintop, how do I keep track of things. The axis of rotation is somewhere in the direction of the horizontal component of my lift vector (and perpendicular to it) ... I know this must sound so stupid that it might seem like I am trolling ... but I'm not!