CyBerkut

Relevant, useful posts: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=578828&highlight=trim+reset#post578828 http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=584098&postcount=9 I'm currently unaware of any way to tweak the neutral trim position (that resetting trim takes you back to). Of course, there may be something in the .lua files that you could tinker with. However, I would suggest that you seriously consider removing the "trim reset" from your repetoir (or limit it to use when you are on the ground). It would appear that re-trimming in flight would be more appropriate. But then, I still suck at this, so what do I know? :smilewink: If you do find away to tweak the neutral trim setting, I imagine a bunch of folks will be interested in knowing how.

Follow up: I had seen a post on here recently that pointed to another program. It's not a Lock On, program, AFAIK, but you might find out otherwise if you dig into it further: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=37140 which leads to: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2511087684/p/1

A search of the forums yielded: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=21784&highlight=gauges+monitor I also saw references to simmeters.com, but their main page still says that they will be closed until Jan. 7th, 2009. :huh: However, a little creative URL entry can get you to: http://www.simmeters.com/eblock.html

You're most welcome. I don't know what led Saitek to make the change in their software. It has caused a lot of confusion and inconvenience. You're not the first to experience it, and you certainly won't be the last.

.dat files were used by the earlier versions of the SST software. The current version uses .pro files. You can download the new (current) version of the SST software, and current drivers from www.saitek.com

Hello connos! I've been using a Saitek X52, so I don't have that level of expertise on the evo Force setup in BS yet. However, I just received delivery of an evo Force yesterday. I have been following threads on the evo Force, and other FFB sticks, as I was planning on attempting to go in that direction. I got the evo Force setup in Windows, with the spring tied in the compressed state via twist ties (as a temporary test). I didn't get to the point of trying it in BS yet, but that will be soon. I do recall that there is a line in one of the lua scripts about force feedback being enabled (or not).

Keep in mind, that poster *also* physically disabled the centering spring (twist ties or cable ties could be used to test the concept). If that helps you, you can carefully drill a hole through the joystick's shaft to pass a removable pin through to physically hold the centering spring mechanism up away from the base. There is a picture of that in the forums. http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=622802&postcount=20 If you are going to do that, remain mindful that there are wires inside that shaft that you do *not* want to bugger up. :)

Along with all the previously mentioned items, I would just add the following: 1. I *WANT* ED focusing their gaming development resources on furthering DCS on the PC platform. BS is a great start, and many folks are frothing at the mouth over the prospect of DCS: Warthog and DCS: Apache. Sticking with their core strength of developing solid study sims, and further establishing their presence in that niche with additional offerings is thoroughly logical. 2. Sticking with PC-based study sims is almost certainly a better fit for leveraging their miltary training simulator work/expertise. It appears to be a solid business model, and I say leave well enough alone. As it has been pointed out, there is a dearth of quality flight sim games for the consoles. I would say that there is a reason for that... and that it is that consoles are not particularly well suited to playing quality flight sims and/or the console market is not inclined toward buying/playing quality flight sims. Of course, that is just my opinion and I could be wrong. But I'm not. :smartass:

That depends on a number of variables. Are you particularly cost conscious? Do you want stiff springs, or something lighter? Do you want non-contact (Hall effect) sensors instead of potentiometers? Do you care if it 'looks military'? Do you want to be able to rig up a (lift lever) collective, or are you going to be satisfied with a throttle moving forwards and back? Are you inclined to tinker with / modify your controllers? Are you planning to set them on a desk, attach them to a chair/seat, or ??? Have you checked out the various threads in these forums on HOTAS setups?

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35052 particularly: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35052&page=4 The prevailing wisdom from people in the know, such as Urze, is that the MSFFB2 is the best choice. I'm not wild about dealing with buying used sticks over eBay, so I'm going to try out a Saitek Cyborg evo Force and see what I can get out of it. If that pans out, it should be the start of something interesting.

Very nice! :thumbup: I'm looking forward to seeing what you do on the electrical side. ;)

Oh, and can you put submarines in there, too? :music_whistling: Submarines move a lot like planes do after all, just a lot slower... :D Death from below, baaaayyybeee! :megalol:

It is largely a matter of individual taste. If you like having multiple modes for the various switches, etc., then the SST software opens up more possibilities to you. If you like to keep it simple, where a switch pretty much has one function all of the time, then the in-game setup should serve you well. As long as you keep track of things, you can actually use both... just don't assign something in both setups and have them conflicting. The SST software has had some problems. The latest release version did not recognize one of the right modifiers as separate from its left counterpart. The betas supposedly addressed that. The betas would not work properly for me, so I went back to the release version. If you are happy with the in-game setup, it might be wise to leave well enough alone. :smilewink:

Thanks for putting the link up! It looks to be potentially useful. I see his last revision was in 2006. (Which is not a mark against it, just an observation.)

Taking a quick look at their KeyWarrior data sheet (some emphasis added): Flex KeyWarrior Flex controllers do have the same functionality as the basic variants but store the keycode table in an external EEPROM. Operator KeyWarrior Operator controllers are a more sophisticated variant of the KeyWarrior Flex controllers. KeyWarrior Operator uses a larger external EEPROM to store up to 8 keycodes for every key in the matrix. This allows to generate key combinations from pressing a single key. Commander The KeyWarrior Commander chips are the most flexible controllers in the KeyWarrior family. KeyWarrior Commander use an external EEPROM to store the keycode table and allows to assign one of 48 macros to any key. Each of the macros can be up to 31 keys long and allows any combination of keycodes to shortcut typing or generate special keys. There is no KeyWarrior 8 Commander since KeyWarrior 16 Commander does already support 2 Function-Shift keys. and later in the document: 5.4 Key Rollover KeyWarrior supports true n-key rollover. All keys in the matrix may be pressed at the same time without KeyWarrior missing any code. However due to the phantom key effect it can not be guaranteed that combinations of many keys are properly reported (see 5.4.1). USB has a limitation on how many keys can be reported at the same time. On USB any six keys plus all eight modifiers (GUI, Ctrl, Alt, Shift) may be pressed at the same time. If more than six ordinary keys are pressed an error state is reported. So USB has a 6-key plus modifiers rollover A careful choice of chip/package and software may be useful. It's not completely clear about whether it differentiates between Left and Right modifiers (Ctrl, Alt and Shift)... The reference to "all eight modifiers" makes me think that it probably does, but you better check it out before jumping on it. There is quite a family of chips to choose from, so that will bear careful consideration in combination with the software selection. Nice find, Trigger! :book:

Yes, please post the link. Thanks!

If I'm interpreting the previous comments correctly, they are saying that it isn't the fault of the Saitek controller, but rather of DCS:BS in its current version. If so, then I wouldn't expect Saitek to know about it. Hopefully DCS will get the problem corrected in the not too distant future. :)

No need to do anything for me, Trigger. Of course, we are all happy to drool over whatever you create! I was just concerned, after remembering some older (pre-manual availability) message traffic about the triggers. Carry on, brother!

Likewise, I'm a Saitek X-52 owner as well. I do not own a Thrustmaster Cougar, so feel free to take this with a grain of salt... The Cougar is made almost entirely of metal, so there is a certain robustness and heft there beyond what the X-52 offers. On the downside, the stock, out-of-the-box Cougar uses potentiometers for the joystick X & Y axis, whereas the X-52 uses non-contact hall effect sensors. Potentiometers wear, eventually yielding "spikes" on the output. Be aware that it is possible to get a hall effect sensor conversion done upon a Cougar, but as far as I know it is an expensive procedure. Both HOTAS packages have software for programming the output. As I understand it, the Cougar's Foxy software is more capable, at the cost of increased complexity. If appearances matter much to you, then it comes down to if you really want the miitary look. The Cougar appearance is a replication of the F-16 HOTAS. The X-52 looks like something out of some futuristic Sci-Fi movie (not necessarily a particularly good one, either...). The X-52 Pro has a decently militaristic appearance, plus some other improvements over the X-52... (Many do not consider the changes to be worth the current price difference, so you'll have to weigh that out for yourself). I'll leave the precision comparisons to someone else. Be aware that someone figured out a do-it-yourself modification to the X-52's magnets to gain some improvement on precision and/or accuracy (search the forums). I've been happy with the durability of my X-52. Saitek definitely stepped it up over my experiences with the early X-45 HOTAS models (I went through 3 sets in 3 weeks and finally gave up on them). Before you jump on any standard HOTAS offerings though, it is important to look at what you intend to use it for. If you're going to be using it with DCS: Black Shark, you may want to rethink things. Check out the forum threads on Trimming and also on Force Feedback sticks. As much as I like my X-52, I'm seriously looking at getting a Force Feedback stick so that the trim can work like it does in an actual Black Shark. I may even go so far as to graft the X-52 grip on to a FFB controller's base ( Check out Urze's creations at http://www.leftside-limited.com/ ). Some folks who already have the X-52, use the X-52's throttle with an old MS Sidewinder FFB 2 stick. I notice you didn't mention CH products. They make good stuff as well, and their software is reputedly very good. Someone had a nice idea with mounting their CH throttle vertically along the side of their seat to emulate a collective control. The CH throttle is a slider instead of pivoting on an arc, so that idea may actually feel pretty good. Good luck!

I'm not a CH Products user, but I'll ask an obvious question... Are you changing settings in CH software, or in the Black Shark settings? If you have both running, you probably need to look at how things are setup in the other, as they may very well be conflicting.

Trigger! What... you didn't translate all the Cyrillic text as well? :smartass: Good stuff there. You are a wonder! (Well, at least *I* wonder about you...) :smilewink:

Trigger, I seem to recall some postings from you (I don't remember if it was in this thread, or elsewhere) that indicated that your dual trigger setup had the larger trigger also operating the small one (underneath it when the large trigger is folded down). I think you wrote that back before the DCS: Black Shark pilot's manual became available, so I made a mental note to watch for subsequent message traffic on it. I don't think I have seen anything from you about changing that. Do you still plan to have the larger (weapon release) trigger also depress the smaller (cannon) trigger underneath it? If so, that doesn't match what pages 2-7 and 2-8 indicate in the manual. It says the weapon release trigger, folded down, renders the cannon trigger inoperative. You have to fold the weapon release trigger up to operate the cannon trigger. Just checking!

Nice! If you make castings, I might be on your customer list. :) I would think a reasonably solid plastic (on the order of what the better game joysticks use) would be a good choice.

Links... Maybe one of these could lead to something... These guys make grips. I don't know what they would charge. http://hirevsims.com/index.htm Another commercial grip maker: http://www.ottoexcellence.com/controls/control_grip_home.html And another: http://www.pqcontrols.com/products.html I imagine all of the above are pricey, but who knows... maybe one of them will sell an empty grip (that you can populate/modify to your heart's content) for a reasonable price. Good luck!

^^^ What Airway said! ^^^ If you uninstall the SD6 version of the SST software (it may require a good registry cleaner to completely accomplish) and then reinstall the older SST version (that produces the .dat files), will the rudder pedals be seen by SST? (I'm guessing "not"). Perhaps there are older drivers out there for the rudder pedals that could work with the older SST version... If not, then I'd say that your best bet is to bite the bullet, install the necessary .NET Runtime, and update to the latest release version of SST. All of the Saitek controllers should work with it, but you'll need to make new profiles in the newer .pro file format. Be aware, there are issues/limitations with the current SD6 release of SST. (ie. the Right Ctrl key is not recognized separately, if I remember correctly) There have been a couple of beta updates to address such things, and you can find info/links to the beta in the announcements section of the Saitek forums. I ended up going back to the release version of SD6, but then, I'm on Vista 64. Your mileage may vary....