Lau

@marcoscosta Thanks for posting this message, I also felt the need to express my gratitude for the improvements on the SA342 and congratulate the Polychop TM for overcoming some of the hurdles that prevented them from doing so. The flight model feels much better, the visual esthetics and wpn config a markt improvement. Looking forward to the future, thank you for your passion and support

@JBDCS Hi, As promised, I did have a look and tested the Manchester compass deviation figures that you provided, just to realize that with such little deviations, there is not much to be noticed from a pilot perspective in game. I would gladly use your spreadsheet work to implement higher deviations figures like the ones I submitted to you on the 4th of December. Best, Lau

@JBDCS No needs for apologies, I am amazed by the work you have put out to use the little room there is to MOD DCS, so we can enjoy a working compass deviation. What I also appreciate is that your work will allow players to customize compass deviation to their personal preferences. Far reach out JBDC, you are really used to go above and beyond in everything that tickles your curiosity and I can confirm that you have indeed a natural talent in overcomplicating things, which is something very rewarding to witness. So thank you indeed for your passion and support Sir. The Manchester compass deviation sinusoid seems indeed more natural than the default Mosquito one, I am not surprised that ED did not get to that level of realism and at the same time, greatfull that the engine allow us to push that little realism boundary a notch further. I can read the reactions to what we are trying to accomplish here with the question: Are we good enough virtual pilots to make the most of that level of precision? My answer is yes, that is within the limitations of DCS. It all depends on what definitions of FUN we have, for me improving my virtual flying skills is very rewarding, I design my little missions with that consideration in mind. If I get lost or do not arrive on time to support the ground troops then I lose the game, which makes me strive to get it right the next time. So to succeed in the mission, I indeed battle not only with guns and bombs, but also with precision flying: time, speed, altitude, fuel management, IMC conditions, compass deviation, mag variation, wind drift, temperature variables, dead reckoning navigation, etc…. It is the combination of factors that makes the experience ultimately interesting and therefore FUN to fly from my perspective. Time permitting, I will test the Manchester compass deviation sinusoid and report back. Ultimately I will however move to the figures I have submitted, not only to compensate for the little size of DCS maps like Normandy 2.0 but, simply to make the exercise more interesting and less forgiving. I can't stop laughing when I get too happy because all my numbers add properly during a mission and that suddenly, I get jumped over by enemy fighters, a real threat these challenges and luckily from the comfort of home. I usually use the repeater for quick reference during BFM/CAS, the DG for precision navigation and easy of read, making sure it is aligned on a regular basis with the P8. Remove all the helpers and get serious about flying warbirds in DCS ; ) Best, Lau

It seems that I have indeed read the Manchester compass swing card too fast and my above statement is wrong. There are indeed negative values in column VI

@JBDCS Thanks, I'll wait that you have the time to read my full post properly including the spreadsheet with the figures that could be added to the Lua file. I look forward to understand how your interpretation of column VI will play with the figures I have suggested. Best, Lau PS: I am mixing a little bit things in this message. Agree, there are two separate things. 1) The understanding of the compass swing card provided by Stuart for the Manchester and 2) The process of adding the correct figures to the LUA file in order to have a deviation card that will allow the pilot to steer the correct magnetic heading.

@JBDCS Good evening Sir, Thanks a lot for taking the time to investigate the way DCS works in order to integrate the compass deviation to our simulated flights. I may have answered to fast your question about column « vi ». The Manchester Swing Card deals with magnetic fields which we fortunately do not have in DCS. In DCS we only crunch numbers. We are therefore only interested in the difference from the Actual "Course Magnetic" (ii) to the "Aircraft Compass Reads" (iii) and that result is given in column IV Deviation (ii - iii) not column VI as I previously stated, sorry for that. You may have realized this after my answer, but I just thought it would be good to clarify this point for good measure. Compass deviation is well explained in page 197 of the RAF Air Navigation Manual Vol 1. While I am at it, here is the link to the USAF WW2 Air Navigation Manual that I previously stated. The topic about compass deviation starts at page 145 of the manual. What I like about this manual is that everything about the 40s Air Navigation is included and more! USAF Air Navigation Manual WWII Now the tedious part is to find the numbers that need to be devided by the K_deviation factor "0.74627" so the compass is able to take in to account the deviation we would like to add or subtract but also, smooth out the magnetic influence throughout the 360 deg range to avoid big bumps in deviation over just a couple of degrees. This is why compass deviations can be represented by a sinusoidal curve. Therefore and taking an example so I can also hopefully understand how it will work in the lua file but also to make things simple without taking in to account coefficients or residual deviations since we do not need them in DCS (please refer to the attached spreadsheet). Considering for example that we choose to implement: For a magnetic heading of 10° Deviation from the Compass to the Magnetic Heading = +3° Deviation from Mag Hdg to the Compass = -3° Then to get to a Mag Hdg of 10° we must be able to steer with the compass to approx -3°00', hence 7 deg on the compass. To get that 7 deg (10° - 3°) reading in the compass we write approx -4.02 deg (-3.00 / 0.74627) to the lua file for Mag Hdg of 10°. Here I am just trying to follow your explanation on how the lua works. Rinse and repeat across the whole range for maybe every 10 degrees of magnetic course change. Most compass deviations have a mix of negative and positive values accross the sinusoid, interesting to see that the Manchester compass deviation only uses positive values. For training purposes, I suggest that we also add negative values to make the navigation exercise more interesting. According to ED there is almost no deviation in the default lua file, which seems odd considering all the gear and armament installed in a Mosquito at that time. Page 202 of the vol 1 mentions the conditions where deviation might change beyond what the compass deviation card states (e.g. Bombs, jet fuel tanks, etc…). The standard flights will take off with a bomb load and jet fuel tanks, accomplish the mission and then RTB clean. The ideal would be to be able to have two separate deviation profiles. One for a fully loaded airframe and a second one for a clean configuration. The tricky part would be to script the moment when the SIM switches from one profile to the other after dropping bombs for instance. If we could find a way to script this, then nothing would prevent us from adding several profiles to match the airframe state. In real life crews would have different compass deviation cards taking this different states in to account. Just thoughts. This bring us to the actual compass deviation card which should contain only the edges or most predominant deviations, a summary of what is in the lua file. I am also including the data for every 10 deg to be entered in the lua. The below profile which we could initially use is for a Mosquito fully loaded to the teeth. The bigger the deviation the more important it will be for crews to consider it to avoid ending in the wrong place and perhaps overfly a dangerous area, or simply miss the next turning point, the joys of DCS. More importantly, I believe that as a pilot anyone using this little mod will be well acquainted with the effect and interpretation of deviation during navigations, hence a better virtual pilot. The attached compass deviation card is admittedly a USAF type format, feel free to give it a RAF style or even a graphical interpretation as on vol 1. I noticed in the lua file that "K_deviation = 0.74627 -- 2.5 degrees max". I hope this will not be a problem for deviations larger than 2.5 degs. The test bed you have setup with the possibility of a top down view on the P8 looks very good. I understand that you prefer to make all your testing on the ground, it can be a challenge to fly the Mosquito and read the compass at the same time. Now that you found a way to remove the condition that affected the precision of the compass on a pitched aircraft over ground you should hopefully get very precise results. I’ll be happy to work on more profiles if we manage to script the process either via the mission editor or via some xml within the Mosquito module. In real life, the compass can be a very unreliable peace of gear that needs to be closely monitored by the navigator. May the force be with ED (they sure have the solution to this) and with you for entering all these numbers : )) Best, Lau Mosquito Compass Deviation Data and card.xlsx

@JBDCS Affirmative for column VI. If we do not find a real mosquito compass deviation card, I am happy to at least have some sort of realistic deviation added to the compass so we can play with the mechanics of air navigation in DCS. It's healthy for the brain! I am happy to provide the deviation cards with the values we will agree for the Mosquito, P51D and Spitfire, could you add them in game with the process you have described earlier? Then we could also add the compass deviation card to at least the pilot documents in game even if I normally have it on my tablet within a navigation spreadsheet taking in to account variables (variation, deviation, wind and so forth...). I promise I will move to paper and pencil only once we are done with the testing part of things. The idea is to introduce a slight error if pilots do not take in to account compass deviation, I understand DCS maps are small but it is nice to know the SIM can take in to account this factor. That being said even with DCS as is, a pilot not taking in to account variation + deviation + wind vector can lead to an interesting navigation offset error. @stuart666Thanks for the link I always like offline versions since I am most of the time offline, here is one in pdf and other formats out of interest Manual of Air Navigation, Volume 1 If you guys find volume 2, please let me know. I currently use the US version also covering astronomical navigation, but before we ask for air sextant to ED, lets wait for the "drift meter" which is easy to implement in game and already 3D modeled. Some variants of the Mosquito where also equipped with a glass nose and a bombsight. That could be a good introduction for the tech required for a B17 but I am way out of the OP with my digression. Best, Lau

Reported as FIXED in F-15E Suite 4+ by RAZBAM Simulations. Version 1.7.2.213 16th Nov openbeta patch "Fixed: AI aircraft not recognizing Targeting Pod thus preventing the use of laser guided munitions" Sorry to report that the above has not been fixed, please fix it ASAP as it is essential for mission building. Best, Lau F15E AI POD INOP.trk

@JBDCS Thanks a bunch for taking the time to explain your findings, by the sound of it, there is a light of hope that we can implement a little MOD for the compass deviation once we are happy with the figures we want to integrate in the SIM. Good Stuff ! Best, Lau

@stuart666 Hi Stuart, thanks for your irterest with compass deviation. Magnetic Variation is indeed simulated throughout time in DCS, info is provided from the compass rose that can be moved around as stated. As with individual compass deviation for each aircraft, I believe ED is moving in that direction since, I get different results for the Spitfire, P51D and Mosquito. Please refer to my other posts in relevant threads for the compass deviation cards I provided with what I actually see in game. It is easy to mix deviation and variation but they are not the same as stated by other members. Thanks for the links I will check them out. @Skewgear Thanks for shimmying in this conversation about compass deviation. I am not sure as to what you mean by "individual airframe speed variation seems modelled in the Mossie" Do you mean that speed variation affects the compass stability as do any other movements like yaw, roll? They do, but for only a brief period of time, once the plane stops jerking the compass becomes stable allowing for accurate readings. That is not compass deviation as stated by @some1 About the card you are referencing on the left wall, unless you have a different version than the latest beta available to us customers, then I do not agree. I have attached a screenshot of the card I see. If you have the same, how would you effectively use this card as a compass deviation card? it's not even displaying relevant information for 360 deg of bearings. You can sure do better as a beta tester than just say it is a compass deviation card and not even read the nicely made Chuck's Guide for the Mosquito page 28. Best, Lau

Compass deviation is so sensitive that the Spitfire has two compass deviation cards. One standard compass deviation and a second one when a jettison tank is fitted. Interesting enough the Spitfire ED manual states "Two deviation cards are installed in the middle of the lower part of the dashboard: to the left is the compass for use with a suspended fuselage tank, while the right one is for use without an external tank." Something that was left behind by the dev team. As shown above the ED Spitfire compass is subject to deviations, it is therefore simulated, we are only missing the deviation cards as per below picture with the correct values for DCS as given in my initial post. If the compass magnetic field deviates from a jettison tank,it will also deviate with iron bombs. null

Folks, I have been testing the DCS P51D compass deviation and would like to just have a look at a real P51 deviation card to see the deviation pathern. I realize results will vary from one bird to the other. but still. If anyone have access to the real bird or already have a picture available that would be awesome! You can also share your results here, so hopefully we also get a compass deviation card in our virtual P51D (topic will later be moved to the whish list). To start off, here is what I actully see in DCS: P51D Date Aircraft 10 09 1944 Cmp C to M M to C -0°30' 000° +0°30' -1°30' 10° +1°30' -3°30' 20° +3°30' -6°00' 30° - 70° +6°00' +8°00' 80° - 120° -8°00' -5°30' 130° +5°30' -2°30' 140° +2°30' -0°30' 150° - 160° +0°30' +0°30' 170° -0°30' +2°30' 180° -2°30' +3°30' 190° -3°30' +5°30' 200° - 230° -5°30' +7°00' 240° - 260° -7°00' +8°30' 270° - 290° -8°30' +7°30' 300° -7°30' +5°30' 310° -5°30' +2°30' 320° -2°30' +1°30' 330° -1°30' -0°30' 340° +0°30' +3°30' 350° -3°30'

What you are referencing is unfortunately the radio signal direction finder calibration table. A compass deviation card could be added in the same place with the possibility to flip from one card to the other by a simple mouse click. Dreams cost nothing If you want to play with the compass deviation you can use the card I provided in my initial message and let us know if you find any discrepancies. More to the point, with the results I gathered it seems that compass deviation is not simulated by ED in the Mosie, this is why it would be interesting to see a real Mosquito compass deviation card, ideally from an airframe with a close enough cockpit configuration. Even with a wooden airframe there might be enough deviation by the gear set in the cockpit? Best, Lau

Hi, I could not read any AMP loads from the gage. Bat and Charger ON, tried switching pitot heat, lights, booster pump on or off to no avail, they all work, but I am simply not getting any load readings from the gage or battery charge condition. Best, Lau

Hi, Since it is possible to run the starter indefinitely, I tried to drain the battery with no avail (ground power off). Best, Lau

Hi, The starter can be run unlimited without overheating or catching fire. Best, Lau

@NineLine NineLine, It is all a matter of perspective, from my point of view being frustrated to spend more time dealing and reporting bugs than actually having fun in the sim is also not very considerate by ED, not to call it rude since it is implied, everyone knows about it and this is what we have, so be it. For me the problem lies in the business model, not an ED problem since the company is making money and I am all in favor of that, but not at the expense of your customers with a race to produce more and more unfinished modules. I for it I’m getting every day closer to the 1000 EUR mark of maps, missions and modules, you can call me a fan of ED work or more precisely a fan of military aviation. Granted, hopefully one day it will all come together and we will all forget about it, in the mean time, four and half months to address a bug report and God knows how long more before it is actually fixed in a future release is a long time to wait in my humble point of view. Here I am talking in general. Yes we can fly as is and continue enjoying AI that is allowed to fly through trees to escape a dog fight, to later reappear behind you, it’s a game but certainly an unfinished business, something that ED has managed to hide very well through some fantastic video editing. Best, Lau

@NineLine Quote ART-J "That's been popping up every now and then for years in this section of the forum. DCS Mustang, just like the Spit (same engines in practical term) has a booster coil in its ignition system, which powers up plugs during cranking even when mags are off (as they might not fire when cranking speed is too low, ie. very cold engine). Unlike in the Spit though, here we've got starter and booster wired to a single switch. Granted, there is a simplification/bug in DCS, which makes it possible to even fly the Mustang continuously with mags off, just by keeping the starter switch on all the time (which would quickly kill both starter and booster in real life I'm sure), but I don't think ED will bother fixing it, since flying that way is only something dedicated loophole-searchers and nitpickers would do just for the feck of it and the switch is spring-loaded anyway (unless you assign it to otherwise in your HOTAS), plus I recall the engine develops severely limited power in such scenario." Hi, At the time I tested this back in June it was possible to start and run the engine by locking the starter (just run the starter and lower the guard cover to lock in in place) and continuously priming the engine to bypass the mixture held in the cut off position as well as the magnetos in the off position for the duration of the test. Carb on RAM & HOT air, Fuel Booster ON, fuel shut off to ON. At the time I did this test for me it was a mystery as to how an engine could start without magnetos and bypassing the Mixture Cut Off lever (civil aviation background). After my initial msg I learned from ART-J and grafspee about the booster coils not mentioned in the P51D manual I was referencing (above quote) I tried to reproduce this in the latest MT 2.9 beta and it is not longer possible to do so. The engine will only start after the mixture is set to RUN. So something changed in the script and fixed it in MT 2.9 latest beta. I have not tried flying the plane without magnetos to witness the reduction in power. The guard button should bring the starter button to the off position when covered The starter can be run unlimited without overheating or catching fire (just reported this in a separate topic). For that matter it seems impossible to drain the battery, ground power off. (just reported this in a separate topic). There is no effect of over priming the engine or rough engine run Information about booster coil could be added to the user manual The engine starting script seems very basic as is and could be improved to better simulate the different scenarios about engine starting management; including smoke colors; sounds, vibrations and flames. Best; Lau

Folks, I have been testing the DCS Mosquito compass deviation and would like to just have a look at a real Mosquito deviation card to see the deviation pathern. I realize results will vary from one bird to the other. but still. If anyone have access to the real bird or already have a picture available that would be awesome! You can also share your results here, so hopefully we also get a compass deviation card in our virtual Mosquito (topic will later be moved to the whish list). To start off, here is what I actully see in DCS: MOSQUITO FB VI Date Aircraft JUNE 6TH 1944 Cmp C to M M to C +1°00' 000° -1°00' 0°00' 10° - 20° 0°00' -2°00' 30° +2°00' -1°00' 40° +1°00' -2°00' 50° +2°00' -1°00' 60° - 80° +1°00' 0°00' 90° 0°00' -1°00' 100° - 120° +1°00' +1°00' 130° -1°00' 0°00' 140° - 170° 0°00' +1°00' 180° - 200° -1°00' -2°00' 210° +2°00' -1°00' 220° +1°00' 0°00' 230° 0°00' -2°00' 240° +2°00' 0°00' 250° 0°00' -1°00' 260° +1°00' 0°00' 270° - 290° 0°00' +1°00' 300° -1°00' 0°00' 310° - 320° 0°00' -1°00' 330° +1°00' 0°00' 340° 0°00' +1°00' 350° -1°00' Cheers, Lau

Folks, I have been testing the DCS spitfire compass deviation and would like to just have a look at a real spitfire deviation card to see the deviation pathern. I realize results will vary from one bird to the other. but still. If anyone have access to the real bird or already have a picture available that would be awesome! You can also share your results here, so hopefully we also get a compass deviation card in our virtual spitfire (topic will later be moved to the whish list). To start off, here is what I actully see in DCS: SPITFIRE MK IX Date Aircraft JUNE 6TH 1944 Cmp C to M M to C -1°00' 000° +1°00' +2°00' 10° - 20° -2°00' -2°00' 30° - 170° +2°00' -4°00' 180° +4°00' +2°00' 190° - 210° -2°00' -2°00' 220° - 260° +2°00' 0°00' 250° 0°00' +1°00' 270° -1°00' 0°00' 280° - 320° 0°00' +4°00' 330° -4°00' +1°00' 340° - 350° -1°00' Cheers, Lau

@Art-J Absolutely right, I should have said compass course i/o magnetic course. I did not provide more details since the problem is so obvious for a person actually navigating with the compass as is, you can't miss it. The reference yellow lines moving with the North marker on the outer dial of the compass are really handy to compensate the weird view angle that is required to view the compass behind the control column, I mean in our ED virtual world. I have seen some videos of people binding a key to bring them to a perfect and close up view on top of the compass, I use the dirty way of leaning forward with the TrackIR. While it is satisfying in the way that it makes you feel in the cockpit, the reading of the compass is always a challenge. @Skewgear Will you flag this post as reported ?

Hi, AI airplanes not taking in consideration the wind for take off at Odiham. Using Dynamic weather and a wind socket to monitor the current wind at the airport. Best, Lau

Hi, Compass North reference lines do not move as intended making it difficult to read the magnetic course (screenshot attached). Best, Lau

Gentleman’s, Thank you for your replies. For me there is an effect missing in the SIM, and it is the effect of an engine that is being primed, receiving some but not enough powerful sparks from the booster coil as the magnetos are still turned OFF, the player should also be punished by using too much prime. So you might get some flames and a couple of bangs here and there, but in no way should the engine have sufficient sparks to start without the magnetos. It is therefore a BUG that I would like ED to fix in the same way, as the one allowing players to use the starter switch continuously without damaging the starter, which should heat to the point of catching fire. I will report this last one in a separate topic. Ignition system : « Two engine-driven high-tension magnetos mounted on the engine, supply spark for combustion and are grounded when the ignition system is inoperative. Both magnetos have booster coil connections, but only the one on the right magneto is used. The booster coil intensifies the spark of the right magneto to aid in starting. » Note: booster coils are an aid to the magnetos Ignition switch : « The ignition switch has four positions OFF, R, L, and BOTH » Caution : « To prevent accidental engine start, be sure ignition switch is moved to OFF after IDLE CUTOFF position of mixture control is used for stopping engine. » Starter system: The starter system consists of an electric direct-cranking starter, a starter switch, and a booster coil. To aid the magnetos when rpm is low during cranking, a booster coil intensifies the spark of the right magneto, which fires the intake spark of each cylinder. Note: the booter coil aids at low rpm, but in no way it starts alone the engine and, even if it is directly wired to the starter in the wiring schematics. Starter switch: The starter switch has an ON position and a spring-loaded guard OFF position. Holding the switch at ON energizes both the starter and the booster coil. Note: The starter should be better simulated as previously stated. About being able to start the engine with mags OFF As far as I understood, this could happen with ideal atmospheric starting conditions, an engine that is still warm and was shut down with the mixture cut-off, therefore with fuel right at the gate of the induction manifold. However you might get some insufficient sparks from the booster coil without the magnetos, some bangs and little flames here and there from residual fuel getting ignited, but the engine should not be able to start with the magnetos OFF, it’s a security clearly stated in the manual. All P51Ds being different now a days, the standard P51D as in the manual should be the reference. Exterior inspection “Ignition switch OFF” safety measure to prevent an engine start, this relates to the previous “caution” advisory in the event the engine was shot-down using the mixture IDLE CUTOFF, hence perhaps, the good habit of maxing throttle as the engine shots-down to starve all lines of fuel as much as possible. @Art-J Art-J wrote on oct 17th 2016 that it is a script error that has been around since the release of the DCS P51D. I noticed from he’s message that he doubt that any of this will be fixed by ED, which is disappointing considering that the product is still on sale. As a customer, one can expect ED to follow the same standards they are following in all their products, meaning that they never stop improving them, being respectful for the time their customers spend trying to understand how complex machinery operates, which is the beauty of our hobby, so please do not take it away unless you are paid to do so by ED. That has nothing to do with being a loophole-searcher or nitpicker but, just expecting that the feedback provided to ED translates in to updates that fix stuff that can be fixed, hence justifying the 49.99 USD price tag set in 2023 for the product. In other words, customers should be able to expect the P51D to behave as its real counterpart within the limits of simulation, making it worthy to go through the pain staking process of digging in to manuals and hours of testing in the sim. Here of course, I include the BUG where after a miss-fire engine or an engine that does not want to start after several attempts, can be run by holding the starter switch. Since it is spring loaded, there is a way to hold it in a continuous start position by simply flipping the cover on and off once. If it’s a BUG or inaccurate, then it should be fixed, without it having to take seven years or more, there is certainly no need to incentivize ED for not fixing or improving stuff, they are slow enough. Take it from a different perspective, some people don’t care, some actually flew the real thing, others worked on maintenance on the real thing. Dedicated customers only have the SIM which is limited enough, hence our expectations. @grafspee Sobek wrote at the same time something along what you wrote back in 2016, all agreeing on the pre-lub with six blades procedure by not priming a cold engine to prevent it from starting. If the engine has an oil sump then, there are parts getting in contact with the thick oil, hence the need to use low rpm with a cold engine to avoid any damage to these parts. The engine being inclined by the plane position on its landing gear, there is probably a filter system preventing all the oil from draining to the lower parts. I therefore think that pre-lub with six blades is not a “big misconception” as stated in your message. I can’t help it but to feel depressed when I get patronized for no special reason. Best, Lau

Hi, Running latest MT & open beta - CTD after fairing HOT missile on 342L. Best, Lau