Rick50

In the link are many pics of vintage Canadian H versions that served for many decades, and also the brand new J's we recently bought: https://www.silverhawkauthor.com/post/canadian-warplanes-5-lockheed-cc-130-hercules You can see the old vintage color photos, they were quite a sight!

LOL!! Thanks!

For a sec I thought the title said "strobe light mug" and thought "hmm, that sounds awesome !!"

So in related news... The AH-1W Super Cobra Has Been Retired From The Marine Corps After 34 Years Of Service https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37149/the-ah-1w-super-cobra-has-been-retired-from-the-marine-corps-after-34-years-of-service

Nice!!! A few years ago a bunch of us were evacuated from a giant raging forrest fire in nearly brand new C-130J's of the Royal Canadian Air Force, that was going on in Fort McMurray Alberta. They flew us to Edmonton YEG. Decades ago I watched much earlier Canadian C-130's in Germany, in those days they were bare aluminum bottoms, white tops, and a red lightning arrow along the middle! Very sharp looking livery! My hope is that in addition to modern versions, you consider at least one older version with steam gauge cockpit, appropriate for the 1960's 70's and 80's scenarios! EDIT: Specifically I'm thinking of the H, the C-130H based variants! Old school cockpits, the plane that pulled itself into legendary status around the world! Before glass cockpits and GPS navigation.

...and licensing rights permission too... but yes, I agree with your post!

From the tweet: "...a vietnam map will come at some point." I guess I had poor English teachers... but I'm still not sure how that statement translates into "ITS BEIN' MADE RIGHT NOWWW!!!1! IN YER FACE, DOOMER!!" I've stated many times that I do believe we will get a Vietnam map... but that I don't know how long it will take, a few months, few years, maybe a decade. Maybe the Mariannas map was a test run for 3d programming techniques for a Vietnam map? Maybe we'll get an EA map for a section of Vietnam when the Phantom gets released?! That would be a very cool surprise. Another bit of news, the C-130J is being made into a full paid module... now it's true that the J is far and away too new to be part of a Vietnam scenario, but the dev has stated that they hope to do other variants, so maybe they might cover earlier variants of the 1960's era? A scenario for the siege of Khe San might be interesting. A long time ago I had a flight sim for a Huey UH-1 where you could operate from the back of a ship, fly to a jungle, pick up casualties and bring them to a MASH unit or back to the ship. Little AI soldiers would move about, either shooting at each other, or carrying a stretcher with an AI casualty. I had an M-60 door gunner AI. It flew pretty decent for a "sim-cade" level of game/sim middle ground. Not realistic enough for pure sim, but physics that were too challenging for most arcade experiences. In rough seas the ship would rock and roll with the waves. The jungle was... well it wasn't convincing anyone, but it was a good effort especially considering the hardware limits of the time. The AI was... extremely limited, but it helped with creating a sense of being there in a mission. It was made using the same engine as another helicopter sim-cade product for Search and Rescue, of which I thijnk they made 4 versions? https://www.myabandonware.com/game/search-rescue-vietnam-med-evac-gqg At the time I was so hungry for anything with helos, that I took to this one and a couple of the civie versions. It was ok for it's time, not greatness, but I could see the potential for future projects!!

Totally agreed... Similarly, there could be differences in LOD for the map, the Mach 2 dudes get a different LOD than say the guys driving M-113's and flying Hueys? I think that could work... might have issues for multiplayer, but I think it's probably a fairly easy thing to create. But I don't really know, sometimes what seems super easy, barely an inconvenience, turns into a mess of headaches requiring a rethink to solve.

I partially agree with you, I think that could be one of the "art / programming tricks" I was mentioning before. It has worked ok in the past for a couple sims. HOWEVER... A Vietnam map shouldn't be "ONLY" for Phantom Phlyers doing Mach 2 with their hair on fire. Remember, we already have the UH-1 in DCS, and an OV-10 Bronco mod inbound. I predict a Skyraider and Cobra will eventually be developed too. If the terrain looks like 'ass' up close, it might not sell very well. similar if frames are all stuttery. Thing is, graphics are improving every year, expectations from players grows every year. You won't sell a map in 2026 that looks like it was made in 2003. At the same time, not all real visuals have to be represented, so obviously the lower canopies not seen by aircraft shoudln't be a factor... but the eyes do tricky things, so it's important for the artists to keep us from seeing some items lacking, and draw our eyes to see what the artists want us to see, in much the same way that movie special effects people used to do with models and stage gags, or magicians presenting a trick. Oh wow, you sure "got me"!!! LOL!

When I speak of new 3d tech and programming tricks, I'm reminded of when a East Front ww2 flying simulator came out, and how they somehow managed to do forgotten battles with large forrests, run on home pc's a long time ago. I believe they might have essentially used just two or three tree models with very careful use of textures and polys, repeated endlessly. Maybe those trees were even simpler than I thought, with textures lower in size than their appearance might suggest. Maybe sprites and or voxels might somehow help... I doubt that, but who knows with some true ingenuity. Speedtrees was also brought up. I think such techniques would work wonders for the Kola forests, but the jungles of Vietnam seem to be much more varied, much more varied in shape and size, so repeating tiles probably won't "look right". But again, a 3d artist with programming knowledge may be able to create a new method that works very well indeed!

Yes, well aware of that. First off, I have never said that it's "impossible", only that I have high doubts about running such a map with extreme object count, at acceptable framerates, on current and near future DCS aviator's rigs. I've also said that the future where it's possible may possibly come real soon, but possibly not. Second, while the jungles of Vietnam would indeed have huge forests worth of trees, much like the Kola map, Vietnam would also have lots of high objects in rice paddies, riverside villages, tons of villages with high object counts, AND just as many bushes in non-jungle terrains as palm trees in that jungle. Again, not impossible... but I do think it's a challenge to overcome. Third, it's not really an urban legend. It's simply my observation from seeing users complaints about this map or that, despite the map sizes being radically different, that raw map size doesn't seem to be the limiting factor, but the limiting factor being specific to the amount of data itself, that needs to be loaded into memory, and rendered in real time along with the AI, the flight dynamics and weaponsystesms and such. Fourth, Kola map is not in users hands at this time. It's in development. We don't know how much computer power will be needed to run it smoothly. While I have faith in ORBX, nothing is guaranteed. Maybe they have figured out a special way to have those giant forests in DCS using some programming and 3d tricks to reduce that CPU GPU overhead... doesn't guarantee that they would have to share a possibly proprietary method. On the other hand, maybe ORBX is the right company to take on a Vietnam map after the Kola map!! Edit: A quick search for pictures of Vietnam reveals what I'm saying: object count and terrain complexity is indeed high. Not impossible, but high. Object distribution is often irregular compared to the trees in the Kola forests...

Caucasus map is a desert compared to the object count of a proper Vietnam map. I'd suggest Caucasus would have less than 1% of the foliage count of a good VN map that actually looks like that country. I'm sure some might disagree with me, but just my opinion! There may be a few savy 3d modellers who might be able to create some shortcuts, special techniques to "fudge" a real nice looking effect to make a VN map playable... but this would require a fair bit of trial an error. It'd be worth it, I think

I wouldn't see that as insulting, rather a complimentary effort to try for the same goal: BUFF module! Nor would I mind if you chose to confine it to this existing thread either... but with new better questions I just think it's probably better to start with a fresh thread, fresh eyes and responses. You may copy any part of my posts and/or poll content as you see fit, we're on the same side after all! If it's a direct quote, I just want it clear that it's a quote from me, however the poll questions can be copied either verbatim or modified as you wish, without attributing it to me... because I don't consider poll questions to be the same as a quote, and I think you ought to be free to be as clear or as vague as you feel necessary to achieve the best poll participation. I don't really have any new questions for you, I'm kinda spent on this topic, but I'm sure others can probably come up with something, and it would be a shame to not have them contribute! That was one of my mistakes with this thread, though I was also rushing to create this thread at that time, I vaguely recall some sort of urgency though I don't remember why!

Well, since you feel your questions would be more relevant or helpful, and you may be right, by all means start a new poll thread! You could post a link in this thread pointing to your new one, and ('ll participate myself! Maybe before you do start it, you might consider further questions, from yourself or others that a dev team might wonder about. I'll personally refrain from that myself as my own poll questions were not very popular, but I'm certain that there's other potential contributors who have great questions to ask possible B-52 customers One minor point: I don't believe ED is interested in non-clickable cockpits for DCS after the FC3 planes, though maybe they'd be open to that for another product line like MAC if that is still happening.

Sometimes the job of the leader is to decide to not take on a particular job/project/tasking, due to reasons. This happens all the time. That I'm not in your industry or the flight simulation industry doesn't diminish my points. Those project you mention that didn't reach the intended goal, someone paid for that in one way or many ways. Sunk costs, little or no profit, loss of professional reputation, loss of repeat business maybe, loss of employment possibly. This is true not only for projects requiring CAD skills but any entrepreneurial venture, DCS map making included. Ultimately I too want to see a great map featuring Vietnam complete, along with at least some of it's neighbours, to replicate the cross-border operations and bases in the region. And if it appears this year, I will rejoice! I'm just offering up my opinions about why I think it's gonna take some time yet to get one.

Yet many have gotten permission.

Then you CLEARLY have not considered any of the points I'm talking about. And being an engineer, really ought to know better. If SOME are struggling to run key maps, that means a significant portion OF THE CUSTOMER BASE SIMPLY CAN'T AFFORD to upgrade anywhere near as often as you. You clearly, as an aerospace engineer, can afford to. But a great number of us a WAY below your income level. Way WAY below. You are making an assumption, that less wealthy DCS players have lots of modules, I would suggest that they do not, and are selective in what they buy. CAD workstations?! Well good for you, but that indicates to me you don't care about growing the community, whom many simply see DCS on Steam and think "hmm, I like jets, gonna try this!"... and later discover that they can't run bugger all. But a Vietnam map, on your machine, would likely not work. The object count just too high. Devs have to consider a great many things. One of them being game engine limitations. And game engine updates. Start too late, and you miss the boat with customers. Start too early, and you'll sit for YEARS on a product you can't release... can't collect a dollar of revenue. FOR YEARS. Would you tolerate that? Do an entire engineering project from start to finish, and not get any pay for it? Boss "uh, yea, might get some paycheques for you in five years!" Then, when hardware catches up, you'll have to port over all that work to the latest game engine, the latest graphics API's. Then update the artwork because things have evolved and now it looks dated. And it might not work, the porting might not work, might create inexplicable stutters, might crash the game every 5 minutes. Being able to do a Vietnam map worth of objects in DCS might come as early as 12 months. Or maybe more than ten years from now. It's not simply a matter of shaming the poors into getting better CPU GPU's. Look, just because we customers WANT something, doesn't mean it's a wise choice for a dev team about to invest tens of thousands of hours of effort for something that might not pay off if their judgement is off slightly. Have some patience... maybe it'll happen.

WinterH pointed out some of the issues that I too concluded a few years ago. Sure, maps are getting larger indeed. This is made possible by DCS players buying ever more powerful computers to run it. Can't make a giant super-map sell well if it gives you 3fps before introducing other aircraft enter the picture! For my perspective, the issue isn't really about map area anymore really... it's object count. Trucks, buildings, fences, we expect all of that on any map. But both the nation and the conflict are extremely famous for the super-dense foliage, the trees, the multilayered canopies, the bushes, the tall grass. Personally I don't wanna fly "Vietnam: Desert Edition". I would want to fly the area as it appeared in the 1960's, and that means litterally TRILLIONS of bushes. TRILLIONS of tall grass blades. Last but not least, TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS of trees. This is an absolute requirement, or it won't look like it should. At this moment, any scene with that dense of object count, would likely cause our GPU's to catch fire and burn down your room, maybe even your residence! Then you gotta price out a new GPU, new computer, maybe a new VR set, convince the insurance investigator it wasn't yer fault, find a new place to live... it all gets a little bit annoying. At this moment. Remember, there are still people struggling with making Syria work well, and the Mariannas map sees people struggling with that one, despite the islands being tiny postage stamps... both observations support my theory about object count being the real obstacle. In the next few years however, new methods of handling object counts, and rendering shortcuts and API functions and procedures, may allow for such insane object counts without breaking a sweat, and do so with many AI and human multiplayers in the same scene. Thus, I predict that the impossible may soon become the "ok let's do this!". Were a Vietnam map to come about... then that opens the doors for the WW2 islands campaigns, and Germany in the Black Forrest too.

Cooooool...

Just occurred to me now that it'll be interesting using the M-61 Vulcan with an oldschool gunsight, (instead of a fancy HUD with radar data...) just a reticle image, raw skill and a blazin fast rate of fire!

??!? I'd have thought the slats' usefulness would outweigh any other considerations, but seems I'm wrong about that! So curious...

Yes, Vietnam war changed so many different things about the US military, it affected weapon selection and development for decades, along with training and unit types... but was very clearly visible in helo armaments!! Agreed!! Might be a bit of a wait for that map. There is real hardware limitations that would concern a map dev for such a map at this time... but those concerns might melt away in just a few short years. Maybe?

Maybe, maybe not. Bell has a say, so too do the Marines and Pentagon. All three could say yes, but any might say no. If there is enough declas documentation to do full fidelity, and seems doable to a dev team, then they need to ask... its either many yesses, or one "no". Remember, Apache Longbow, Viper, Hog C, and Legacy Bug are in US current use and frontline tip of spear for many nations still, and those not only got permission, but are solid modules in DCS, so I'm not sure why you think it would be "impossible". Bell might have given thumbs up for the Huey, not sure if Poly got official permission for thr Kiowa Warrior or not... sure, the Z is newer and fancier, but anyway. I agree it could be blocked, I'm just saying i don't think its guaranteed.

Hmm, that looks like maybe a blimp hangar, like those at Moffet Field in California among other places!!