Nagilem

@backspace340 - thank you sir! Those are great tips. Will try them out!

Question - for those using 1 lighthouse, do you find you lose tracking if you really crank your head and neck around in a dogfight?

Adding Pimax to front for completeness. Feel free those with a PiMax to give me pros and cons.

@RePhil - You don't need the Steam Version of DCS. Stand alone will do. You will need the SteamVr software for the drivers for the index. I run O+ headset with stand alone DCS through SteamVR for WMR just fine.

@harlikwin - I don't think there is a settable option for repro on WMR. At least not one that I have found. One does have motionvector in SteamVR (which I think is a repro option with lua file changes in steam), which actually makes a big difference. I get locked frames at 45, but the experience is reasonably smooth. I posted the link for it in one of the other recent threads.

@Harlikwin - Yeah, none of them are deal breakers and can be easily overcome. #2 and 5 are the worst of it, and 5 doesn't happen often if you cover the sensor. #2 is the one that happens most often that causes me some pain. Easily fixed, but you have to get used to rocking in your chair at the hangar menu to see if its a problem. That way you don't get all the way in and realize you have to restart the process...

just curious here - if I have 2160x2160 rather than say 1440x1600, could I get away with a PD of 1.0 or 1.1 and have a decent experience? What about shimmer? MSAA at that res make a diff without tanking performance? What about AA? My hope would be to lower the PD (maybe 1-1.2 with 100% SS in SteamVR) and still get good visuals because of the higher res panels, then get the MSAA and AA to address the shimmer and jagged lines. Sadly, Framerate is the one spec that rules them all. I don't like watching DCS as a slide show :D. Looking forward to someone actually getting a unit to test...

@Fri13 - Thanks for your thoughts on the Rift S. These things are subjective, and for some, what is listed as a CON just isn't. But that doesn't mean it isn't a CON for someone else. I've tried to capture what I am hearing are overall impressions from the many sources I've read /seen (Reddit, here, Youtube reviews, etc). None of this is definitive, and every HMD has some deficiency, we just know less right now about the Reverb and Index because the info is limited. If you have purchased a Rift S, or are wanting to purchase a Rift S, then congrats to you! You've made a great choice for your needs. Hopefully what is here can help someone else make the right choice for their needs as well.

I have also found that MSAAx2 and AAx4+ also helps with the DDIs if you have a GPU that can handle the calculations. Put the shadows to FLAT also which could give you the overhead on the GPU for the two things above.

I would think, given the high level of pixels you could reduce to 1.0 or 1.1in DCS with SteamVR at 100% and get good clarity. I'd want MSAA on with AA to reduce the shimmer of course :). I run 1.3 with MSAA and AA now with good clarity on lesser pixel density with consistent 40-45 frames almost everywhere (including Dubai with *some* microstuttering). I have lots of other things turned down, but it performs and looks good to me. If that is the case (higher res with lower PD), the performance could be pretty dang good after the VR Performance update... Things are getting very interesting around here :D

@Hansangb - Can you tell they are an a10 or f15 from their shape at that distance? Could you discern the difference between an f15 and say a mig29 at that distance? Just curious because I can't do that in the O+.

@PT - I haven't seen anything in WMR. I did however setup the Motionvector setting in SteamVR which did make a big difference for me. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=228378&highlight=motionvector YMMV with the Reverb.

Sure - All very minor but annoying nonetheless. 1. All of the splashscreens flicker and go in and out for all DCS - you get used to it, but it makes moving in and out of DCS feel unpolished and the flickering hurts my eyes. 2. Tracking is good mostly, but about every third or fourth time I go into DCS I lose my lean forward back axis on DOF and have to exit both DCS and SteamVR to recalibrate the HMD in WMR to get it back 3. Sun goes down, and my room gets dark, the WMR tracking starts stuttering, and I have to get the lights on in the room. This can also cause the item in #2, which means a reset of WMR to get things working. 4. The use of both WMR AND SteamVR makes the setup and config a bit cloogy; add in Nvidia and the settings in DCS and there are many places to configure the headset, which means time going through each, writing down what is set to allow for a known config when in the sim. 5. Inside WMR headsets, there is this sensor to know when you have the headset on. This activates your presence in WMR, and causes the mouse and keyboard to shift focus. When this happens, the mouse stops working in DCS VR cockpit. To get it back, you have to toggle with Win+y keys, which totally disrupts immersion. You can cover the sensor with some tape in the HMD, but I still occasionally get this and have to Alt+tab back to desktop to refocus back on my DCS vr session. That covers the main points. Anyone else who has others, feel free to share.

That is my number 1 concern - how the 2080ti will perform with the Index. I have an o+ now with the same general res working great with DCS with most things set low and a 1.3 PD (no outside SS - 100% in SteamVR). With this, my cockpit is very readible, but outside IFF of planes not so good (AntiSDE screen makes small things very fuzzy). I hope the VR optimization and losing the Anti SDE screen will improve my experience greatly. Fingers crossed.

Updated initial post with feedback...

For me personally - I have preliminarily chosen the Index (I preordered) based on the paper specs and imagined use, but I want to see what the real life experience is in DCS specifically. Thats what I am primarily buying the headset for. I have seen the Pimax and HP reverb previews / reviews (Rift S not in the running for me), and I am not seeing what I think would be a 'gotta have' experience. I am curious to see if the HP Reverb gets great reviews here, which could potentially sway me to that headset, but WMR is still a concern (I have the o+ with minor but really annoying WMR issues). Time will tell.

Excellent point on Pimax 5k+ - just forgot them in the mix. Will add, though I haven't been watching them as closely. If you own one, can you put a quick pro con list together? Better to have real experience rather than impressions where possible. And agree - for DCS, Reverb has been limitedly tested (MRTV) and Index is completely untested.

Given what I am seeing on the market from the recently released reviews, this is what I am seeing from the major players - I've ordered them by availability with the first HMDs are those most likely available today vs those that are still in pre-order. O+ - Pros: Great price point; decent clarity / detail (I can read stuff in the cockpit easily and edge to edge clarity is good when the HMD is aligned to eye); Low SDE, good blacks; can be made reasonably comfortable with VRcover and Studio creative head strap; known quantity (plenty of info to get this HMD working with DCS very well) Cons: Anti-SDE filter makes objects in distance (outside cockpit) fuzzy and hard to see (spotting good, visual ID of AC bad), WMR can have tracking / 6DOF issues (easily corrected but a PITA to reset), needs lots of tweaking to get a really good working profile (once you get there though, the headset is pretty darn good); WMR stupidity with Win+y keys and HMD sensor (Annoying but again easily overcome); small sweet spot; not officially available in EU =============================================== Pimax 5k+, 8k - Pros: High resolution; Large and configurable FOV; low SDE on 5K+; OLED version available; Info available for configuring a good experience Cons: Expensive; Sound not nativelyincluded with HMD; software still under development and not mature (improving); package does not include lighthouses which adds cost for those without v1 lighthouses; No included controllers; with higher FOV, performance is challenging and requires higher CPU/GPU; delays in receiving ordered HMD =============================================== Rift S - Pros: good price; better clarity than o+ (though from what I am seeing in many reviews many still find outside cockpit not very sharp); No WMR or light houses for easy setup; Decent color saturation for LCD; available now; Cons: Fixed IPD can make some have clarity issues; Sound is subpar (headphones probably required for good immersion); While not WMR, tracking has similar Inside Out issues; LCD blacks are not OLED blacks (minor); Refresh is 80hz (others are 90+); Some on forums are reporting smaller FOV than CV1 =============================================== HP Reverb - Pros: best clarity with hi res panels; No WMR or light houses for easy setup; Decent color saturation for LCD; decent comfort; OTE headphones good Cons: Mura issues *; Fixed IPD; small sweet spot *; edge clarity drops off from center *; WMR tracking issues (I think this will be on par with O+); LCD blacks are not OLED blacks (minor); Higher res will require beefier CPU/GPU for DCS; Dongle at back of head for connection could be uncomfortable / unwieldy; Production issues with availability delayed; Limited testing so far in DCS (needs someone to receive one who is a regular player on the forums here * only some reviewers had these issues; reports are still conflicting and will need more data points =============================================== Valve Index (based on recent impressions) - Pros: Excellent overall build quality; very comfortable for longer sessions; good clarity for LCD panel; Somewhat improved FOV with good edge to edge clarity with eyes aligned to panels; higher refresh; excellent sound quality with Off the Ear speakers; Excellent tracking Cons: Pricey for HMD and lighthouses; LCD blacks are not OLED blacks (minor); Harder to setup with light houses; Higher godrays when HMD canted on head; smallish sweet spot; not out yet, and will have limited locales for distribution for summer; Untested so far in DCS =============================================== I'm not a fanboi for any of the products above. This is what I am seeing so far based on what I've read or seen in reviews or other threads here. I think each headset will have strengths and weaknesses once they all hit the market later this summer. Any other thoughts or impressions I am missing? Hoping this can help those still on the fence about what to purchase since none of these are really that cheap when you factor in CPU/GPU updates.

Personally, I would at least like to see RWS implemented soon. I can wait a bit for the ground stuff knowing that is *very* complex and requires major updates. This and $5 just might buy you a caffeinated beverage... We'll definitely see what we see when we see it... hahaha

I get what you are saying, and I agree. I know the fix isn't going to be easy or short to implement. And from what you are saying, may have some issues that will not prove to be the magic bullet. All of that said, is there a point or time when core changes for multithreading is no longer an option, but a reality that must be implemented? Or, to your point, is multi threading not really worth it given the type of processing necessary in DCS?

With all of the current stuff on the upcoming list for some of the larger, more complex modules - and adding in more realistic weather effects and carrier ops overhead, when does having more CPU in game become a must have to keep the game playable and the development evolution moving? From what I can see, my 9900k is pegging one CPU hard with what is already in the game. I do have a stable experience 'generally', but if a bunch more gets added, it may get to a point where not much really works well, even for a top of the line processor. Sadly, for my processor, the typical load over the whole CPU is like 15-20% average (and I suspect that is likely with many other multi core cpus), which seems really inefficient. It would be great to use the rest of that CPU power to process other units, help the GPU, add weather, etc. Are we close to or at that saturation point? Is there a solution to this issue besides Vulcan (which I think is only for GPU offloading, but correct me if I am wrong)? Just curious what others think... I really hope ED is working on solutions to use more of the CPU.

Do you mean in cockpit zoom? With my setup as seated, I can move in the cockpit and still get 6DOF (lean, move, look around, etc), but I have to specifically use VR ZOOM to see something closer. My chair is fixed so I don't move side to side at all.

@ Dax - I found that this review is very similar to what I already have in the O+. I suspect the Rift S may have a slight clarity advantage being LCD, but the challenges stated in the above review are *VERY* similar to what I experience today. The only other benefit may be better tracking with the Rift S... I do have occasional glitches with the O+ but nothing deal breaking... I'll have to go to an MS store and check it out to see what the real difference is. I am definitely looking forward to seeing how much different / better the index is. I don't have high expectations, but I think it will be better nonetheless.

The boundary thing is new to me. I set my O+ to seated play only since I started as I primarily use it for DCS and have not had it pop up again since. Are you using yous for more that DCS?

Watching this with interest as I am trying to make a very realistic mission for both single and multiplayer. I figure the initial mission will likely include ~10-12 blue AC with AWACS and one tanker. Mission is PG with ~10-12 enemy AC and and 40-50 AA units so far. I'm setting up a base template to work several objective missions from. Outside of the carrier group, I will probably not put much friendly AA in to minimize the issues discussed here. Any thoughts on what some of the initial limits should be for well behaved multiplayer?