Pogo

Here is another picture of a C Model. I suppose that it could be an optical illusion, but the floor really does appear to slope down in the pedal area. Cheers, Pogo

Great job on the pit so far! I believe that the floor drops about 1" or so in the rudder pedal area. Cheers, pogo

I've looked at them but at $200 cdn each + development time with the promised SDK, there are cheaper and surer alternatives out there. Cheers, Pogo

Well, IMHO, software is lagging rather noticeably behind hardware these days. I built an I7 920 machine with 12GB of RAM and dual SLI GX260 for under $2k as my gaming/sim machine, and there is nothing that comes close to making it work even a little hard. This is also noticeable on the Enterprise IT front and is why virtualization companies like VMware are grinning from ear to ear and wearing money hats.

It is an interesting concept though, instead of moving the whole platform, the cockpit is gimbal mounted with the motion being controlled by a pulley and cable arrangement. I think that the lack of responsiveness is probably due to a combination of software and the windshield wiper motors he is using to power the cable system.

I am still researching what I'll need to do to build an A-10 cockpit and I came across an interesting option for building my own I/O boards These links may be of interest to the more adventurous cockpit builders out there. They refer to the open source PHCC (PIC HomeCockpit Controller) project to build cockpit I/O boards using the PIC Micro Controller. The RS-232 Interface version of the boards http://phcc.varxec.net/wiki/Introduction The USB interface version of the boards http://uphcc.varxec.net/wiki/Main_Page Some Interfacing Software, mostly falcon-centric, but there is a very interesting test software that talks to the boards for testing Aircore or stepper based instruments, switches, LEDs, etc. http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/lightningstools I've searched the ED forums and found no reference to the links or projects, so I hope that they might prove interesting to some of you. Cheers, Pogo

There is still some hope. If you want to feel the love while you're flying, you can look into setting up some tactile transducers. Check this thread for more info. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=42189&highlight=transducer Cheers, Pogo

Let me first say that I have a tremendous amount of respect for what ED has done with Black Shark. Having said that, I can also say that I've had much the same experience with the Logitech Force 3D Pro. The stick works wonderfully in X-Plane and FSX but the Black Shark is virtually un-flyable with it. There is something slightly amiss when ED explains away the trim on non-FFB sticks by saying that the sim was designed for a FFB stick, and yet the only FFB users that I've not seen complaining are the Microsoft FFB 2 users. It may be that the Microsoft product is fully compliant with the full FFB spec while the Logitech and Saitek products aren't, but the MS product is out of production while the Logitech and Saitek products are the most widely available and common FFB sticks. With this in mind, perhaps ED should consider tuning the Black Shark's FFB code?

Possibly, but on the other hand this is a retailer actually taking pre-orders based on his listed price. Even if they cut the price by 25% it is still going to be an expensive stick. Cheers, Pogo

I dunno, but my gut is telling me that Saitek's marketing weenies are off of the mark on this one. First off, the price seems somewhat high for the general market which leaves the niche hardcore market. That is not necessarily bad, I mean a tensometric stick is a viper simmers' wet dream, but then you'd think they would have put more effort in replicating the real flight stick and throttle. I think the F22 has a tensometric stick as well, but being newly returned to the sim game I am not up to speed on the details of what other aircraft use this technology. Secondly, if you are aiming at the high end sim market, the DCS series seems to be what you'd want to be targeting, but from the information we have so far, it is unlikely to fit the bill as far as realism goes. Saitek seems to have a penchant of throwing all kinds of cool things on a stick without much regard for who are going to be the most likely users of the product or how useful those features are actually going to be. I think that X65F may end up being a a stick in search of a sim. Cheers, Pogo

"Unique force sensing stick – all input is detected from how hard you push on the stick, just like in real modern day jet fighters Features on-the-fly adjustment of the force settings for the stick – including separate adjustments for each axis of the stick for the ultimate in stick response configuration" I can't seem to grok how a stick can be force sensing and force feedback at the same time, or how this would lend itself to a realistic setup for either a Black Shark or an A-10. As for the price, well let's just say that I've never been overwhelmed by the quality of Saitek's products. For this kind of money I hope that they've made a quantum leap forward in terms of quality. Cheers, Pogo

I haven't really done any testing on this but my observations lead me to believe that with the Viks set to medium, the release pattern that I've noticed is this. Initial commanded release = 2 weapons 2nd commanded release = 1 weapon 3rd commanded release = 2 weapons 4th commanded release = 1 weapon and so on. Again this is just my impression without my paying particularly close attention to the sequence. Cheers, Pogo

This is great! Thanks a lot! Cheers, Pogo

Yeah, i've been thinking about that. The challenge that I see with just sending keyboard commands is that it is possible for the switches in cockpit to be out of synch with the sim. Whereas if you use the LoSetCommand(x,y) commands you can have the Cockpit Control Application make sure that the switch settings in the sim are synched to the physical switches. I'm still pondering that, though. Cheers, Pogo

you mean the F7 F9 & F12 keys for TIR? I have TIR 5 and they work for me. Let me recheck tonight and make sure, but I can confirm that the F12 re-center key works because I use it often. Cheers, Pogo

Congratz on the baby! Cheers, Pogo

Hi JG14, Assuming I am not missing anything ..... you're welcome. :) Now I just have to put it into practice. Cheers, Pogo

I am not sure that the Wingman Force 3D and the Force 3D Pro use the same Force Feedback driver board. I remember reading a post by someone from ED that said that the Force 3D Pro did not use the full Force Feedback spec and that was why it didn't work well with BS Now that I think of it, The only FF stick that I can recall reading about that seems to work properly in Black Shark is the Microsoft Force Feedback 2. And the Logitech G940 I suppose, since Wags seems to have been using one for quite a while before they were released. In any case, I think ED needs to share the blame on this issue. The Logitech Force 3D Pro and the Saitek FF Cyborg( or whatever it is called) are the two most widely available FF sticks on the market, and if ED's FF implementation in BS is not compatible with them, then they should publish a list of supported FF sticks. Cheers, Pogo

I bought one to try it out..... It is back in its box waiting to be used on FSX or X-Plane. The trim worked... sort of. At least it worked well enough for me to understand the difference between how the trim works on a FF stick and how it works on a non FF stick, but it was very inconsistent and much too sensitive to be used in Black Shark. I tried every trick I know to set it up, even going so far as to use DXTweak and DIView to try and tone down the sensitivities. The only way I could get it close to working was to tone down the saturation to somewhere around 60% and by then there wasn't enough movement left to properly fly the helicopter. I've gone back to my X52 Pro and will wait and see how the G940 pans out. There are lots of posts from people trying to make it work with very little result. Maybe someone, somewhere, has found the "sooper seekret" setup to make it work properly, but I would not recommend this stick for Black Shark. Cheers, Pogo

I have the X52 Pro and the Pro Rudder Pedals as well and I don't even load the SST software. I do all of my button assignments in the game itself. I've modeled the X52 stick and throttle as closely to the real HOTAS setup of the Black Shark as I could. I've also removed the x axis from the pedals and I don't use the toe brakes because I don't see much value to them in this sim. I may change my mind over time. The only real concession that I have made to practicality in my setup is that I've created a macro on my G15 keyboard that will turn on all of the autopilot channels in the blink of an eye, just in case the Autohover Autopilot decides to turn them off on a sudden whim. Cheers, Pogo

I think the article serves an important purpose, which is to get someone who is new to simming, in the air and doing stuff as quickly as possible. You have to remember that the experienced simmer is not a typical representative of the wider gaming community. I have had Black Shark for close to a month now and I still haven't fired off a missile in anger. But that's ok for me because I've set my priorities according to my past sim experiences. To most novices, spending a month learning how to fly and operate the Black Shark with a certain degree of precision before taking on missions or the campaign is unthinkable. Getting new blood into this facet of gaming is critical because the bigger the market share the better it is for everyone involved. Cheers, Pogo

Fixed the image link. Sorry about that Pogo

Hey Triggerhappy69, Thanks for the input man. Your build thread is a big part of what has inspired me to try this. What you've accomplished is amazing! I do indeed plan to go with Hall sensors for the stick. I'll take your advice that they are sensitive enough to make do with around 15 degrees of rotation. If that doesn't work out I can always put a ratio on it to increase the rotation at the sensor. As for the pedals, I believe you are right again, at least based on this excerpt from the A-10A Manual. It would make sense that they are mounted through the center console as opposed to from the sides of the cockpit. As near as I can tell you would push the pedal in and out for rudder, and then I am guessing that you rotate the actual footrest of the pedal around it's axis for the brakes. My family ran a hobby shop for 30 years and I practically grew up there so a few pushrods and bellcranks don't worry me too much ;) Thanks again for the photos and references, they help alot. Cheers, Pogo

Isn't that what Microprose wanted to do with it's Digital Battlefield Series that spawned ..... was it Falcon 3 or Falcon 4? I remember I bought the SU29 package for it as well

Thank you Jag, That does indeed answer my second question. Next, I just have to decide between Visual Basic and C# for my application development. Cheers, Pogo