Itkovian

::headdesk:: Sorry, I meant the F-15C manual. I've got the A-10 on the brain. :) How nice is the F-15C campaign, BTW?

I know it comes with a campaign (as per the product page), but is it actually good? For example, BS2 has some excellent campaigns, while A-10C's campaign is a bit lacklustre. I was wondering if there's a good comparison. Also, is there a nice manual for A-10C yet? Or is it simply the FC3 documentation (which is not available for download it seems)?

Hi there! I'm an avid DCS fan and I'd love to sink my teeth into a proper Air Superiority sim, but unfortunately I can't do multiplayer very much and am limited to Single Player. As such, I am wondering: does DCS F-15C come with a decent single player campaign (or, heavens forbid, campaigns)? Thank you. Itkovian

On a FFB stick the trim sets the "force center" position of the cyclic, which replicates the behavior of the actual Cyclic. So when I push trim, suddenly all FFB forces are turned off, and if I push the stick forward 20 degrees and let go of trim the FFB will turn on again, BUT the stick's current position becomes where the force feedback is keeping the stick. So if I want to pull back to 20 degrees (back to the real center), I will be fighting the force feedback, unless I hold trim and release when it's actually centered again. So basically, trims sets the position of the cyclic where the pilot doesn't need to apply pressure anymore. So you can take your hands off the cyclic if you wanted to and it won't recenter itself. Now as far as I recall, if I move the stick around without trimming and then trim, the main issue is that suddenly the stick goes "limp" in your hand (hush, you!) and the force you used to hold the stick in the new position will make you push it further than you wanted, which will make things bumpy a little. The way you avoid that is by holding down trim whenever maneuvering, so you have complete control of the stick when you let the trim button go. This is probably also why the real pilots hold the trim button too. As far as I know, ED made the FFB sticks behave as close to the real thing as possible, which is why FFB is awesome with BS2. I will try and test more thouroughly what happens when I just click trim... I just know it's a bad idea because it is less precise.

Certainly for me, with a FFB stick, I've always operated by hold trimming, and have read numerous posts that it is the proper way to trim (basically, that KA-50 pilots rarely use Flight Director mode, and simply press and hold the trim button whenever maneuvering, releasing when they have attained their desired flight profile). As for the Schval issues, I haven't had that yet, tough I hasn't flown in the rain in quite a while. :)

Basically the PVI-800 is your main navigation and targeting system in the KA-50, with the ABRIS used more as a pilot reference than to actually interface with the other systems. There are a few exceptions, however: the Datalink interfaces with the ABRIS, and target points programmed in the PVI-800 will show up on the ABRIS. Also, I believe the PVI gets regular positional updates from GPS (which is part of the ABRIS, I believe). One way to looks at it is: if you want your autopilot or targeting systems to be affected, it has to be in the PVI-800. It's one of those quaint things with the KA-50, that lends it character :). On the other hand, figuring out the PVI-800 and ABRIS is a lot simpler than the A-10C's CDU. :)

Salutations. After a long absence I've started a new Deployment campaign, and I am coming up to the famous "Other Side" mission, and I have a question: Last time I played this mission I remember learning the "optimal" flight profile for climbing and fuel economy, but I can't remember it anymore. So, any help would be appreciated: what's the best approach to conserve fuel and crest the mountain range? Thank you. Itkovian

Interesting, so if I uninstall DCS World 1.2 it will uninstall the A10C and KA50 modules (and combined arms, in fact)? Thank you for the help. :)

Salutations, I've been getting the Blackshark itch again, after many months of hiatus (could be more than a year, in fact), and I was looking around these forums for updates when I realized that the new patches are using some sort of autoupdater, and I don't think I have that in my version. Specifically, I'm currently running DCS World 1.2, alongside A-10C and Black Shark 2. From what I gather I might need to do a full reinstall to get the auto updater, is that correct? If so, what's the procedure again for me not to lose my licenses? I bought the BS2 upgrade, so I'm wondering if I can safely uninstall my products without running into trouble. Thank you. Itkovian

I own a Kindle Fire as well, and I must say: THANK YOU. This is excellent, it makes it much easier to scan and use the manuals. Thank you. :) Itkovian

Sounds cool. Should be fun. Though to be honest, main reason I upgraded and got this campaign is for the ramp starts. :) Anyway, I'm still re-learning my way around the office. Time to tackle the CDU. :) Itkovian

Salutations. I've been having some random crashes in DCS World/A-10C, specifically when flying a Fast Mission with no enemies... roughly 10 minutes in the mission I CTD, and there's nothing in particular that I can pin this on. It's happened 3 times in a row now, so here's the latest log (shortened to fit): 00014.983 UNKNOWN WinMain: Speech.common modules loaded 00014.986 UNKNOWN WinMain: Speech.NATO module loaded 00014.986 UNKNOWN WinMain: Speech.USSR module loaded 00014.986 UNKNOWN WinMain: Speech module loaded 00015.081 UNKNOWN WinMain: Error: Unknown parameter modal 00015.125 ERROR DXGUI_EDGE_RENDER: Cannot load texture '' 00016.486 INFO Dispatcher: loading mission file: "C:\Users\Yan\AppData\Local\Temp\DCS\tempMission.miz" 00016.537 UNKNOWN ProgressBarDialog::ProgressBarDialog: Unknown set function: setModal 00016.537 UNKNOWN ProgressBarDialog::ProgressBarDialog: Unknown set function: setLockFlow 00016.643 INFO TERRAIN: lSystem::lSystem 00016.643 INFO TERRAIN: lSystem::Init Bazar/Terrain/terrain.cfg.lua 00016.643 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: lma: .///Bazar/Graphics/lma/edge_infrared.lua 00016.644 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: lma: .///Bazar/Graphics/lma/edge_land.lua 00016.644 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: lma: .///Bazar/Graphics/lma/edge_landheight.lua 00016.645 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: lma: .///Bazar/Graphics/lma/edge_lights.lua 00016.645 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: lma: .///Bazar/Graphics/lma/edge_map.lua 00016.646 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: lma: .///Bazar/Graphics/lma/edge_mfd.lua 00016.646 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: lma: .///Bazar/Graphics/lma/land3.1.lua 00016.647 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: lma: .///Bazar/Graphics/lma/edge_shelf.lua 00016.693 INFO WEAPONSBASE: srRes = 959731252, srGoodValue = 959731252 skip 00017.025 UNKNOWN ProgressBarDialog::ProgressBarDialog: Unknown set function: setModal 00017.025 UNKNOWN ProgressBarDialog::ProgressBarDialog: Unknown set function: setLockFlow 00017.084 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::start 00017.087 INFO VISUALIZER: envlevelel 0 00018.181 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: scripts/input/CommandMenuItems.lua 00018.182 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: scripts/input/TrainingWaitForUser.lua 00018.182 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: scripts/input/JFT.lua 00018.182 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: Config/Input/Aircrafts//default/mouse/default.lua 00018.183 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: Config/Input/Aircrafts//default/keyboard/default.lua 00018.183 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: Config/Input/Aircrafts//default/joystick/default.lua 00018.185 WARNING LOG: 2 duplicate message(s) skipped. 00018.185 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: Config/Input/Aircrafts//default/trackir/default.lua 00018.189 INFO DCS: Dispatcher: initial random seed = 4578037 00018.189 INFO DCS: Dispatcher: apply random seed = 4578037 00018.190 INFO TERRAIN: lSystem::Load() 00019.294 INFO EDOBJECTS: shape trees_1_blk not found in shapetables 00019.294 INFO EDOBJECTS: shape trees_3_blk not found in shapetables 00019.294 INFO EDOBJECTS: shape trees_5_blk not found in shapetables 00019.294 INFO EDOBJECTS: shape trees_6_blk not found in shapetables 00019.294 INFO EDOBJECTS: shape trees_7_blk not found in shapetables 00019.294 INFO EDOBJECTS: shape trees_8_blk not found in shapetables 00019.294 INFO EDOBJECTS: shape trees_9_blk not found in shapetables 00019.294 INFO EDOBJECTS: shape trees_2_blk not found in shapetables 00019.294 INFO EDOBJECTS: shape trees_4_blk not found in shapetables 00019.300 ERROR wInfo: can't find Coach a tank in civilTypes table 00019.389 INFO TERRAIN: lSystem::InitSurface() 00019.484 INFO TERRAIN: lSystem::InitScenes() 00019.496 INFO WORLDGENERAL: loaded from mission Scripts/World/GPS_GNSS.lua 00019.512 INFO EDCORE: LexicalAnalyser: Cannot open .\Bazar\Effects\SmokeTail\High\smokeBigRocket.cfg 00019.512 INFO EDCORE: LexicalAnalyser: Cannot open .\Bazar\Effects\SmokeTail\High\smokeNoSharpen.cfg 00019.514 INFO EDCORE: LexicalAnalyser: Cannot open .\Bazar\Effects\SmokeTail\High\traceBigRocket.cfg 00019.514 INFO EDCORE: LexicalAnalyser: Cannot open .\Bazar\Effects\SmokeTail\High\traceNoSharpen.cfg 00020.069 INFO EDCORE: LexicalAnalyser: Cannot open .\Bazar\Effects\Damage/Fire\High\fire.cfg 00020.547 INFO WORLDGENERAL: loaded from mission Config/View/SnapViewsDefault.lua 00020.547 INFO WORLDGENERAL: loaded from mission Config/View/View.lua 00020.549 INFO WORLDGENERAL: loaded from mission Config/View/Server.lua 00020.564 UNKNOWN WinMain: Error: Unknown parameter modal 00021.160 WARNING LOG: 3 duplicate message(s) skipped. 00021.160 INFO Config: netview started 00023.456 INFO DCS: ComplexTask::open_state(). Precached tasks data loading. 00023.623 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281041) 00023.623 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281042) 00023.904 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(282076) 00023.904 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(282077) 00023.983 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(283784) 00023.983 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(283785) 00024.265 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(282582) 00024.265 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(282583) 00024.323 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(283114) 00024.323 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(283115) 00024.412 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281419) 00024.412 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281420) 00024.532 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284290) 00024.532 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284291) 00024.574 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(282282) 00024.574 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(282281) 00024.621 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284356) 00024.621 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284357) 00024.704 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281630) 00024.704 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281629) 00024.883 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281208) 00024.883 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281209) 00024.885 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284043) 00024.885 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284042) 00025.003 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281840) 00025.003 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(281841) 00025.010 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(282864) 00025.010 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(282865) 00025.165 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(283357) 00025.165 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(283356) 00025.190 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(283560) 00025.190 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(283561) 00025.282 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284501) 00025.282 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284502) 00025.500 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284495) 00025.500 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284496) 00025.524 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284385) 00025.524 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284386) 00025.562 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284737) 00025.562 INFO EDOBJECTS: lDynObjectManagerImpl::addObject(284738) 00026.031 ERROR DXRENDERER: DXDefTexture: failed to open file oprs light.tga 00033.605 WARNING COCKPITBASE: Cockpit: MapObjectsBuffer . Specific element 24 not implemented, map may be incorrect 00034.654 WARNING LOG: 1 duplicate message(s) skipped. 00034.654 ERROR COCKPITBASE: Indication material name collision _ckpt_indication_default_ 00034.654 WARNING COCKPITBASE: Indication material name collision fixed as _ckpt_indication_default__collision_avoided_ 00034.654 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: C:\Users\Yan\Saved Games\DCS\Config/Input//A-10C/mouse/Mouse.lua 00034.654 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: C:\Users\Yan\Saved Games\DCS\Config/Input//A-10C/keyboard/Keyboard.lua 00034.657 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: C:\Users\Yan\Saved Games\DCS\Config/Input//A-10C/joystick/Joystick - HOTAS Warthog {EFBAEA20-5A2C-11e0-8001-444553540000}.lua 00034.660 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: C:\Users\Yan\Saved Games\DCS\Config/Input//A-10C/joystick/Throttle - HOTAS Warthog {EFBB1130-5A2C-11e0-8002-444553540000}.lua 00034.663 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: C:\Users\Yan\Saved Games\DCS\Config/Input//A-10C/joystick/CH Pro Pedals USB {020ABD60-C599-11de-8003-444553540000}.lua 00034.663 UNKNOWN NewInputLuaBinder::NewInputLuaBinder: C:\Users\Yan\Saved Games\DCS\Config/Input//A-10C/trackir/TrackIR.lua 00035.279 UNKNOWN WinMain: Loading "A-10C" radio command panel 00035.279 UNKNOWN WinMain: A-10 C - showingOnlyPresentRecepients = true 00035.378 UNKNOWN WinMain: RadioCommandDialogsPanel initialized 00035.378 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active MFCD_LEFT, 2 (status undefined) 00035.378 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active MFCD_RIGHT, 3 (status undefined) 00035.475 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active CDU, 9 (status undefined) 00035.553 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active LITENING_INTERFACE, 11 (status undefined) 00035.553 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active IFFCC, 12 (status undefined) 00035.553 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active DSMS_INTERFACE, 13 (status undefined) 00035.553 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active DATA_TRANSFER_SYSTEM, 14 (status undefined) 00035.554 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active NAVIGATION_COMPUTER, 21 (status undefined) 00037.200 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active PULSE_TIMER, 25 (status undefined) 00037.200 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active TAD, 26 (status undefined) 00037.225 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active SADL, 32 (status undefined) 00037.237 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active CPT_MECH, 39 (status undefined) 00037.237 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active OXYGEN_SYSTEM, 40 (status undefined) 00037.249 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active ENVIRONMENT_SYSTEM, 41 (status undefined) 00037.268 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active TACAN, 51 (status undefined) 00037.268 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active STALL, 52 (status undefined) 00037.268 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active ILS, 53 (status undefined) 00037.269 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active UHF_RADIO, 54 00037.269 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active VHF_AM_RADIO, 55 00037.270 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active VHF_FM_RADIO, 56 00037.270 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active INTERCOM, 58 (status undefined) 00037.283 INFO COCKPITBASE: lua state still active MACROS, 70 (status undefined) 00037.452 INFO WORLDGENERAL: loaded from mission Scripts/World/birds.lua 00037.836 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: Force loading pipeline 'lockon'. Radius 150000.000000. Pos=-295406.843750,2603.019531,845197.125000! 00056.153 WARNING NGMODEL: Model 'trees_1_blk' has invalid bounding box. 00056.153 WARNING NGMODEL: Model 'trees_3_blk' has invalid bounding box. 00056.154 WARNING NGMODEL: Model 'trees_5_blk' has invalid bounding box. 00056.154 WARNING NGMODEL: Model 'trees_6_blk' has invalid bounding box. 00056.154 WARNING NGMODEL: Model 'trees_7_blk' has invalid bounding box. 00056.182 WARNING NGMODEL: Model 'trees_8_blk' has invalid bounding box. 00056.200 WARNING NGMODEL: Model 'trees_9_blk' has invalid bounding box. 00056.239 WARNING NGMODEL: Model 'trees_2_blk' has invalid bounding box. 00056.261 WARNING NGMODEL: Model 'trees_4_blk' has invalid bounding box. 00056.263 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: force loading finished! 00056.263 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: Force loading pipeline 'map'. Radius 150000.000000. Pos=-295406.843750,2603.019531,845197.125000! 00063.026 INFO EDTERRAINGRAPHICS3: force loading finished! 00074.119 INFO DXRENDERER: Creating Resource "Unicode" of type 5 00076.976 WARNING LOG: 4 duplicate message(s) skipped. 00076.976 ERROR Trigger: can't execute trigger, err:"[string "?"]:1: bad argument #1 to 'loadstring' (string expected, got function)" 00227.233 WARNING LOG: 1 duplicate message(s) skipped. 00227.233 UNKNOWN WinMain: 611: 6 1 1 00227.233 UNKNOWN WinMain: 612: 6 1 2 00227.270 UNKNOWN WinMain: 511: 5 1 1 00227.270 UNKNOWN WinMain: 512: 5 1 2 00227.435 UNKNOWN WinMain: 312: 3 1 2 00227.436 UNKNOWN WinMain: 311: 3 1 1 00240.059 UNKNOWN StatusBarDialog::StatusBarDialog: Unknown set function: setModal 00379.547 UNKNOWN WinMain: 311: 3 1 1 00379.547 ERROR SOUND: source_is_playing(-1): invalid source 00415.346 UNKNOWN WinMain: 321: 3 2 1 00415.346 ERROR SOUND: source_is_playing(-1): invalid source 00885.619 UNKNOWN WinMain: 311: 3 1 1 00885.619 ERROR SOUND: source_is_playing(-1): invalid source 00930.631 UNKNOWN WinMain: 611: 6 1 1 00930.631 ERROR SOUND: source_is_playing(-1): invalid source 00961.386 UNKNOWN WinMain: 321: 3 2 1 00961.386 ERROR SOUND: source_is_playing(-1): invalid source 01008.087 UNKNOWN WinMain: 511: 5 1 1 01008.087 ERROR SOUND: source_is_playing(-1): invalid source Thank you. Itkovian

Do the briefings explain that this is waht is needed to do? And does this mean we have to specify the actual movement to be performed? Or do we just tell the units to advance along a predetermined route? Thank you. Itkovian

I finally installed DCS World and purchased CA specifically for that campaign. :) Just what elements of CA will I need to use for this campaign? I know next to nothing of CA, and it seems to be mostly a MP product. In the context of your campaign, is it just a matter of loading up the map and right clicking on units to order them to move or some such? And with CA do we get to control all units, or is control limited to certain units and certain routes? Thank you. Itkovian

Very well, thank you for the prompt reply. :) Itkovian

I was just checking if the single player campaign worked in DCS World, just in case DCS World was a multiplayer-only thing. That said, what you're saying is that if I wanted I could download and install DCS World (in its own directory) and then install BS2 1.2 (which is DCS World only, as I understand it), and I won't need to uninstall my current BS2 installation? But, as the data tracking is not compatible, if I want to play DCS World I would need to start over with a new pilot, correct? Thank you. Itkovian

This is also a concern of mine. I have a BS 2 campaign in progress that I took a hiatus from a while ago, and having just found out about DCS World I am concerned that I will lose all my progress if I upgrade to DCS World. Incidentally, DCS World doesn't affect cmapaign missions in general, right? So once I install DCS World and BS2, I will still be able to play the BS2 campaigns? Thank you. Itkovian

Well, I just installed the patch, and the problem is compeltely gone. Did a free flight, and it holds its trim rock steady. It's a pleasure to fly once again. :) Thanks for all the help, the patch definitely did the trick. Itkovian

Looking at the announcements board might have helped... as it is I just looked at this board and saw nothing of a new patch. D'oh. :) That said, the post served its purpose, thank you a lot for the help (mind you, I'll update after I patch and test it out tonight). Love the sim, and a good community indeed. :) Itkovian

1. Could be that you are not trimmed properly. Press CTRL-T to reset the trim. It should pop everything to the center. Keep in mind that with non Force Feedback devices, when you let go of the trim button it will take the current stick/pedal positions and make those the default "center" positions. For example, I have the same situation with my rudder pedals. If I'm pressing the left pedal to turn left and I let go of the trim button, if I keep pushing the left pedal my A/C will start turning left even faster. In order to maintain my turn rate after trimming I need to let go the pedal entire, and the new "neutral" position of the pedals is as if I was pushing the left pedal still. So to set the rudder back to middle position, I'd have to to push the right pedal and then trim (using CTRL-ENTER as reference to tell me when the rudder is back in the middle). Alternately, I could just press CTRL-T to recenter the trim. 2- The flashing B means you have your parking break on. The growing red triangle is your brake "pressure". The more you press it, the more you break. SHIFT-W I believe engages and disengages the parking break. The scale on the lower left is your collective, I believe. Itkovian

I'm flying the Medvedev II campaign, where it states radio frequency is 127.5 (or some such), which is the default frequency on startup, and I still don't hear AI radio traffic aside from the scripted chatter. Is this normal, or should I tune to 124 to hear generic AI chatter? Mind you, maybe it's due to the lack of AI traffic. Maybe I'll get more on busier missions, or in the GOW campaign. Itkovian

I have not patched BS2 at all, didn't even KNOW there were patches... so this must be the problem! That post is exactly the problem I'm getting. I'll install it tonight and post an update. :) Itkovian

Actually, I flew again last night and this behavior occurs without the route mode (with the AP channels on, except the ALT HOLD channels). For example, I'm flying along a given course (not using the route mode) and trim to the desire attitude, and the A/C will pitch up. All I can think of is that there may be some slack in my MSFFB2 which allows minute movements that frequently translate into pitching up. If I maintain tight control after trim and ensure it stays pitched properly, I can let go of the stick and the pitch will remain stable. It's still very unusual, however. I'll be doing some free flying to test it some more. In reply to Ramstein: I use a Force Feedback stick, so my stick actually is supposed to behave like the real cyclic, in that trim will "freeze" the stick in its current position (so if I'm pushing the cyclic forward and to the left and trim, the motors will keep the stick in that position even if I stop applying force). Most problems people have with trim are due to having non-FFB sticks, which requires you to quickly center your stick as trimming sets a new "neutral" position. Point is, I shouldn't be getting this behavior with a FFB stick, at least not with Alt Hold off. PeterP: So you're saying that w/ the Alt Hold channel on, the set altitude is NOT determined by trimming, but rather by the collective brake? I've never used the collective brake to be honest, and I always thought desired altitude was specified by trimming. I'll do some more tests tonight, with some free flights, and post my findings. Thank you. Itkovian

So you're getting the same symptoms I am? I'll have to test what you're talking about, and double-check that I'm only having this issue with route mode on. Itkovian

Really? so when I settle on a course and want to change the speed, I should disengage route mode, reach my new speed, trim, and then engage route mode? That's strange, because the HUD clearly shows the new "set speed" when I trim. Is that somehow entirely independent from the route AP? Itkovian