Swerving under braking/antiskid

Hi folks just wanna first say that while I am new here I do not want to come off as a complainer.I "love" that companies like DCS are around for us and remember just a few short yrs back when all you heard was that high fidelity PC flight simulations were coming to the end.:megalol::lol::thumbup: This could all be just me and I actually wanna hear points from people defending the braking tire model in DCS.

Ok,I fly A10c and feel its a great simulation that feels very real to me until I land and try to brake.Then I just get all these feelings of why is happening.The modeling of anti-skid just throws me off.

See when I am going pretty slow and apply full brakes the jet swerves as if I am adding in rudder input but I am not.The swerving is greatly exaggerated when antiskid is off and I agree that its a good way to force the antiskid on as a realism option.Thats ok and I can overlook that but at least give us solid braking when antiskid is turned on.Instead I get this hard shaking of cockpit(is that the antilock brakes releasing pressure?) and no matter how little brake pressure I apply the jet just swerves and I am dancing on the rudders.

Braking in a straight line is pretty simple in real life and when you start to slide you pretty much slide straight ahead.If you make a harsh turn in middle of runway and slam brakes on the jet will not do 360's instead it will slide sideways while brakes are locked.In ice conditions though and you get a little sideways I can imagine a 360spin if the front tire has grip and forces the rear around but thats rare since you have two tires in rear and one in front meaning it will be very push heavy by default and not prone to spin.In DCS however it always feels like the runways are covered in ice and gets worse as speed slows.

What I propose is a removal of the swerve and cockpit shake when antiskid is enabled.Please....."comments highly welcome"!:pilotfly:

Don't know about the breaking, but just to clarify:

ED (eagle dynamics) = Company

DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) = Product line

Sounds like you are only applying one wheel brake or not applying the brakes symmetrically. There is no other reason for what you are experiencing other than incorrect control setup or pilot error.

I swerve a lot too when braking, high winds, asymmetrical loads, braking too hard...

Try assigning your brakes to an axis and dont slam on them, use the speedbrakes to slow to nosewheel speed and then brake moderately.

Keep in mind your jet always drifts to one side of the runway so it will always want to slide in that direction. Put a curve in your rudder pedals to make your movements more precise and then learn to account for it.

After that deal with it. Thats about the only thing you can do.

Inseckt,thanks. ;)

Eddie,the issue I am having I come to find is related to what Wildfire said "Keep in mind your jet always drifts to one side of the runway so it will always want to slide in that direction."Its also happening to people in this post where they claim plane pulls to right and has nothing to do with crosswind since its always to the right and under any payload chosen.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=72784

I figure ED has put this in to simulate having to actually steer down the runway since in real life you do have to put in tiny inputs to stay centered unless high crosswind.Then wheel steering enabled and it pulls to the left side and under HEAVY braking it swerves left and right. Its just pulls too harsh and causes weird feelings when braking.Under full power it pulls to right and when you go idle power it tracks straight.Then brake too harsh and it swerves left and right coupled with the more sensitive yaw effect when wheel steering is enabled and braking gets too hard.....of course all IMO.

Could the testers maybe ask if it can be toned down.:(

Are you sure both wheel brakes are being engaged? Are you using an axis or a button to engage brakes?

What does the CTRL-Enter Indicator show when this happens? That is paramount.

Nate

I agree with WildFire, try to tune your brake axis'. At first I had similar problems when stepping on the brakes (I assume you use separate left and right axis). After setting them as a slider, adjusting a small curve (-22) and a deadzone setting 95 they are less "responsive" but still scaling fine.

I figured mostly I exaggerated the initial braking (Hit 'em hard). If you gently touch down, then slowly apply about 50% brakes after putting down nosewheel and slowly to full brakes it is quite straight. Only at low speeds I noticed a tendency to instinctively adding differential brake what is fatal. You end up swerving wildly after the second or third "correction" easily.

Basically it feels ok only the feedback from the "brake" is missing :D

Bottomline: tune and practice, that will do the trick... ok, perhaps if ED may soften the swerving a bit, though. :music_whistling:

Taking off the hog always wants to vear to the right, regardless of the load or weather. When i get airborne i always have to trim to the left, It's been a issue both with my old x52 pro and with the warthog as well. All controls are centered as checked both in windows and in-game. figure it was minor and i just deal with it. landing is mostly fine, If I don't watch my inputs I get the swerves as well.

Taking off the hog always wants to vear to the right, regardless of the load or weather. When i get airborne i always have to trim to the left, It's been a issue both with my old x52 pro and with the warthog as well. All controls are centered as checked both in windows and in-game. figure it was minor and i just deal with it. landing is mostly fine, If I don't watch my inputs I get the swerves as well.

Have you checked you don't have two axis assigned to the one control? By default DCS maps my Right and left rudder pedals axis to aircraft pitch and yaw. If I touch one of these pedals during flight, the plane will become uncontrollable. I have to remap the Pedal to some thing else.

The point is - it is possible for 2 separate controllers to influence the same control at the same time - ensure this is not happening in your case.

Nate

Have you checked you don't have two axis assigned to the one control? By default DCS maps my Right and left rudder pedals axis to aircraft pitch and yaw. If I touch one of these pedals during flight, the plane will become uncontrollable. I have to remap the Pedal to some thing else.

 

The point is - it is possible for 2 separate controllers to influence the same control at the same time - ensure this is not happening in your case.

 

Nate

yup had to fix that when I bought my pedals, it's pulled to the right before I had rudder connected. It's just a minor irritation at this point and as you know trimming isn't something you have to think about after awhile. I just started bumping the left trim a couple times before takeoff and it only needs a couple more bumps once airborne.

I use one pedal for both brakes since its hard enough to control this as is let alone trying to balance another pedal into the mix.I tried the CTRL-ENTER and it shows all controls centered perfectly with just a small offset on rudder occasionally that I removed with a deadzone.With all control inputs centered though,once I am rolling it seems to pull to left and powered off and coasting to the right.Still think the braking swerving is too strong and the pull to right on takeoff and left on engine idle makes for frustrating feel to what would feel perfect if cured.:joystick:

I use one pedal for both brakes since its hard enough to control this as is let alone trying to balance another pedal into the mix.I tried the CTRL-ENTER and it shows all controls centered perfectly with just a small offset on rudder occasionally that I removed with a deadzone.With all control inputs centered though,once I am rolling it seems to pull to left and powered off and coasting to the right.Still think the braking swerving is too strong and the pull to right on takeoff and left on engine idle makes for frustrating feel to what would feel perfect if cured.:joystick:

Hmm ok odd. A track will highlight for us what needs to be done. If you could post up a short one highlighting this behaviour that would be cool.

Nate

I use one pedal for both brakes since its hard enough to control this as is let alone trying to balance another pedal into the mix.I tried the CTRL-ENTER and it shows all controls centered perfectly with just a small offset on rudder occasionally that I removed with a deadzone.With all control inputs centered though,once I am rolling it seems to pull to left and powered off and coasting to the right.Still think the braking swerving is too strong and the pull to right on takeoff and left on engine idle makes for frustrating feel to what would feel perfect if cured.:joystick:

i took it one step further and ran a-10c on my laptop (whole diff pc) with no controls connected using only the keyboard and still had the pull/trim to the right. I'm 99.5% sure it's not a control setup issue. I thought maybe a difference in engine thrust? it's constant though so maybe designed to simulate a worn engine. I just chock it up to the maintenance crew not checking the pressure in my right tire :)

I dont get it, is this not a known problem? Anyone Ive ever flown with since I started playing this game has always complained about the natural drift. I doubt I've ever flown with anyone that hasnt had it. Is this just an elephant in the room or have you honestly never noticed you always have to have some rudder to keep the thing straight on the runway even on no wind days?

And it always drifts to the same side. I've seen a lot of topics on it posted on the mainboard and just assumed people would come to realize that its not going to change.

I've never noted any handedness... Wheather on TO or landing, if I can get it straight in the first place, it stays straight... in my experience anyway...

Same here, on a no wind day, there is no handedness I can see.

Nate

ive noticed the past couple times i've played online that, during startup, the aircraft will begin to slowly roll forward before the right engine even comes online... annoying if you do auto startup and come back to find your plane drove into the C-130 next to it...

Same here, on a no wind day, there is no handedness I can see.

 

Nate

Same here.

In the post I linked someone mentioned a bug in the dynamic weather.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1183646&postcount=15

Ah yes, now you mention it that does ring a bell.

Nate

Hmm ok odd. A track will highlight for us what needs to be done. If you could post up a short one highlighting this behaviour that would be cool.

 

Nate

As far as a track is concerned, if you load up the shooting range mission with no controls connected or make sure your controls are centered (which I made sure on my gaming pc) and advance the throttles the jet will pull right. I though initially that maybe the jet wasn't lined up correctly (even though you start on the runway) I straightened out the jet during roll out and as soon as you stop inputting left rudder the jet starts pulling again. One this I've noticed is that once you disable nose wheel steering the pulling to the right isn't as strong but still prevalent.

I use the shooting range mission as a example, every mission stock or user created has the same pulling effect. I've tried mulitiple things, jet unloaded, more loaded on the left, fuel full, fuel almost empty, starting from either direction on the runway, different airbases. I finally just gave up and accepted it. In reality it's not that big of a deal, was just tring to figure out what was causing it. Like I said in a earlier post this problem has been persistent through 2 joysticks (x52 pro and now the TM WH) and even installed and ran on a completely different pc just for trouble shooting purposes.

I dont get it, is this not a known problem? Anyone Ive ever flown with since I started playing this game has always complained about the natural drift. I doubt I've ever flown with anyone that hasnt had it. Is this just an elephant in the room or have you honestly never noticed you always have to have some rudder to keep the thing straight on the runway even on no wind days?

 

And it always drifts to the same side. I've seen a lot of topics on it posted on the mainboard and just assumed people would come to realize that its not going to change.

The aircraft is rarely loaded symmetrically. The fact is that the TGP is almost always mounted on the right side, and often, there is no corresponding load on the other side's pylon. That's what I always understood as the explanation for the rightwards drift. Indeed, the few times I've loaded up with no TGP my aircraft has stayed pretty much straight going down the runway.

Also, if your brake axes don't go perfectly back to zero when you release them, you are going to be applying some brakes- potentially, some differential brakes.

Also, if your brake axes don't go perfectly back to zero when you release them, you are going to be applying some brakes- potentially, some differential brakes.

I have noticed with my Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals that if I release the brakes "too quickly", they don't always go back to zero. You can clearly see that by activating the controls indicator of DCS A-10C (RCtrl + Enter).

However, if I go to Windows Game Controllers and see the brake axis, they always seem to go back to zero. Even if I release the brakes very quickly.

Can you confirm this?

Speed Im with you, that was the point. I mean the plane is never symmetrical, I did the math behind the weight and torques about the center to see if there was a loadout I could get somewhat close, but its impossible. Hence I always assumed it was normal and expected.

The thing Im getting at is how are people with what I know for a fact is an asymmetrically loaded plane not having this problem? Even while landing or taking off when it really starts drifting it should be fairly noticeable and it seems pretty crazy that people are reporting this as not as normal. It makes sense to me.

What is my game retarded then?

When I stated I saw no handedness, I meant without wind and with a symmetrical payload. An asymmetrical payload should and will result in adverse roll and yaw.