ED Team NineLine Posted January 15, 2015 ED Team Share Posted January 15, 2015 Well, I assume person claiming that something is not correct would have to post exactly the documents and graphs as a proof to his ... "bug report". And with all due respect Mr. SiThSpAwN but we also purchased something. Wasn't it cheap, and as a customers I assume we all expect as high as possible standards for the price we paid. For both the product and service. Now I don't expect the scanned and dropped here documents, rather single graphs and parts or at least the titles of the sources with unit, time and place they were issued, so I could possibly find and purchase them myself. In the past Yo-Yo has provided comparison graphs of sim vs real world performance of the P-51, I would imagine you could expect the same, but dont assume you are entitled to anything more than what you paid for, which is a simulation of the Bf-109K-4, which is what you have right now. Yes if you feel you found a bug we ask you to provide proof or evidence of the error. But that doesnt mean we, as consumers should demand every bit of data ED has in order to prove anything... their work with the P-51, and testimonies from real world pilots should be enough, as well as the graphs I mentioned above, and even those things are not mandatory for ED to do. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted January 15, 2015 ED Team Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) He can do what he wants obviously. But you cant expect anyone here to just take you guys word for it without any data to back it up. Until hard data is posted All we have is allusion to information that we cannot see. You cannot expect people to just take ED's word for it. You arent entitled to an explanation if ED's opinion differs from yours, thats not how it works, your sense of entitlement astounds me at times, but once again... the thread is being pulled off topic... so please stop. Edited January 15, 2015 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solty Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 What is going to be the climbrate according to YoYo's data, for the DCS:Bf109K4 Kurfurst module? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpp Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The problem is that Yo-Yo stated that he thought 23m/s was pessimistic, which disagrees with the data in this thread. There is no data in this thread than shows the climb performance of the serial production Bf-109K4 at 1.8ata using Sondernotleistung. Answers to most important questions ATC can ask that every pilot should memorize: 1. No, I do not have a pen. 2. Indicating 250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian265 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 There is no data in this thread than shows the climb performance of the serial production Bf-109K4 at 1.8ata using Sondernotleistung. Indeed. Do you have any reason to think the production climb rate would be so much better than the graphs you posted, as to reach 30m/s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted January 16, 2015 ED Team Share Posted January 16, 2015 Indeed. Do you have any reason to think the production climb rate would be so much better than the graphs you posted, as to reach 30m/s? Who said it should reach 30m/s? Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Who said it should reach 30m/s? Nobody, but that is what the testing being done found. (see first post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian265 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Who said it should reach 30m/s? It's apparently what we have now in the 109 module. With Crumpp posting a pedantic objection to my point, I guess I was hoping to find out what he thought should be the target value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenobiOrder Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 It's apparently what we have now in the 109 module. With Crumpp posting a pedantic objection to my point, I guess I was hoping to find out what he thought should be the target value. I think that's what everyone wants to know. What the target climb rate is Right now it way too fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted January 16, 2015 ED Team Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Nobody, but that is what the testing being done found. (see first post) Which Yo-Yo already said was wrong and they are fixing it, so this pretty much amounts to trolling... Edited January 16, 2015 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilum Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 K4 climb rate fix status? How is the climb rate issue coming along? There was a dedicated thread that was closed 2015-01-15 with reference to the issue being acknowledged and planned to be fixed but the bug thread is still classed as [REPORTED] not fixed or resolved. So what is the status for this issue and what are the plans? Given that the thread was closed more than 3 months ago it would be good with a short status report if possible. Thanks! http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2290166&postcount=1 Old Crow ECM motto: Those who talk don't know and those who know don't talk........ http://www.crows.org/about/mission-a-history.html Pilum aka Holtzauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solty Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 +1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 +1 Please, don't fix it ! I feel like a Super Hero flying the K4 against the ponies .... I am SO GOOD this way... don't spoil my pleasure! Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOnTheOP Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Please, don't fix it ! I feel like a Super Hero flying the K4 against the ponies .... I am SO GOOD this way... don't spoil my pleasure! I'm pretty sure that was in jest, because if you need performance specs inflated on the order of 150% reality to win, you really need to practice your BFM :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I hope they still have people working on the 109 Beta while they are trying to finish 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted April 27, 2015 ED Team Share Posted April 27, 2015 I hope they still have people working on the 109 Beta while they are trying to finish 2.0 I dont think that is an issue. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultra Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I dont think that is an issue. Ok good. That's reassuring. :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilum Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Any news on this? As I recall from earlier forum discussions there is a broad consensus that the K4 is climbing too well which also seems to have been acknowledged so what are the developers plans? What is the sea level climb rate for MW50 enabled at 1.8 ata being targeted? Is a fix in the works? Old Crow ECM motto: Those who talk don't know and those who know don't talk........ http://www.crows.org/about/mission-a-history.html Pilum aka Holtzauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilum Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 As input to deciding what climb rate to target, here are some C++ simulation results for 1.8 ata. I think the sea level climb rate for 1.8 ata in the attached figure may actually be a bit optimistic since I get around 26.5 m/s with 1.98 ata at sea level which is more optimistic than the Messerschmitt calaculations posted earlier.Me109K4 climb rate and time 150518.bmp Old Crow ECM motto: Those who talk don't know and those who know don't talk........ http://www.crows.org/about/mission-a-history.html Pilum aka Holtzauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted May 18, 2015 ED Team Share Posted May 18, 2015 As input to deciding what climb rate to target, here are some C++ simulation results for 1.8 ata. I think the sea level climb rate for 1.8 ata in the attached figure may actually be a bit optimistic since I get around 26.5 m/s with 1.98 ata at sea level which is more optimistic than the Messerschmitt calaculations posted earlier. It would be interesting to compare this result for 3400 kg and ~1850 hp of the 109 to the test of 3850 kg Mustang having the same power at 75 "and giving 23.6 m/s climb, even more than you estimation gives for 109. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/na-p51b-150grade-climb.jpg Or to compare to this test http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/p-51b-24771-climb-blue.jpg for the mass of 9680 lbs ( 4400 kg) - 22.4 m/s less than 1 m/s slower than 3400 kg plane of the same power. I do understand the difference in prop diameters, L/D ratio, etc, etc.... but 1000 kg advantage for the Mustang? Do you really believe that it's possible? Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurfürst Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 YoYo, Is it possible in your opinion that the Mtt Projektbüro calculations do not include exhaust thrust, as it appears to be the case in the Fw D9 calculations? http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse! -Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) Curiously, could the excessive climb rate related to the trim issues at all? Here's a (boring*) track trying to fly level not long after take off....at max nose down pitch and still climbing. Fast forward to the ~7 minute mark and you'll see what I'm on about with full nose down trim with the stick centered. *Ignore the takeoff, haven't flown much recently, let alone the K4 so out of practice, and I accidently trimmed it tail heavy.Bf 109k Crazy Pitch_1_12_16_38741.trk Edited May 18, 2015 by Buzzles Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo38 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Curiously, could the excessive climb rate related to the trim issues at all? A most interesting idea! Someone sent me a video of trimming the DCS 109 full-down and taking his hands off the stick, and the thing looped in short order. I've been following both issues (although I don't have the module, the Me 109 is my favorite aircraft of all the ones currently in DCS), but it never occurred to me that the two could have the same cause--some kind of gross excess of lift? Good question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted May 18, 2015 ED Team Share Posted May 18, 2015 As far as the trim goes, I dont have this issue, I trim nose down and my nose goes down, not sure if it has an effect on the climb rate issue, but I think the problem they found wasnt related to that, but I could be wrong. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo38 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 As far as the trim goes, I dont have this issue, I trim nose down and my nose goes down Hmm. At max power? Without having the module, with which to confirm, I can't really determine whether or not my associate was doing something wrong. If you can trim the 109 to pitch down, hands-off, at max power & max level speed, then perhaps he was having a hardware issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts