Resupply logic questions for ground units

Hi,

As I understand, ground units resupply happen in two main ways:

1. By proximity to a warehouse;

2. By proximity to a truck (let's say M818 or Ural-375);

and affect mostly Tanks and Arty (low Ammo) than IFVs (guns have much more shells).

So, I have those question:

A. Reload is continous and infinite as the cargo truck is in proximity of the firing unit? Or it's more like a "switched conditions", so that I need to route away and then ruote in again the truck to the firing unit?

B. Reload will work if the cargo truck is AI OFF?

C. Is there a possibililty to turn on and off the rearm & reload capability of the trucks?

Thanks in advance.

Watching this one! Got a neat idea! Didn't even realize reload applied.

(let's say M818 or Ural-375) and one more Ural-375 PBU

GT.category = "Unarmed";

GT.warehouse = true

(let's say M818 or Ural-375) and one more Ural-375 PBU

GT.category = "Unarmed";

GT.warehouse = true

Good point, I could have a look at the other truck also. I bet that Ural-4320 also has this capability.

Obviously it's a limited function, but still enforce ground commander to think about resupply... I just need to know in which way has to be planned and what workload could be created for the ground commander.

ie. I could think at fixed resupply positions, in which ground units must take contact with resupply convoy, that countinously move from resupply position to warehouse location to create a resupply chain.

If resupply ability can be "stopped" or "halted" in some way, a supply chain could be easy buinded within the trigger system (unit inside zones) or better with scripting engine (LOS funcions).

If not, I can always force the transport to go and come back from the resupply point at defined timing to simulate the same thing.

Any suggestion? :)

 

A. Reload is continous and infinite as the cargo truck is in proximity of the firing unit? Or it's more like a "switched conditions", so that I need to route away and then ruote in again the truck to the firing unit?

B. Reload will work if the cargo truck is AI OFF?

C. Is there a possibililty to turn on and off the rearm & reload capability of the trucks?

 

A. Its continuous and occurs every 60 seconds regardless if the unit is out of ammo. Units within 100m of trucks effectively have infinite ammo.

B. Unknown. I assume not as the unit "still exists" in the gameworld.

C. Not currently. It is plausible that the resource system will eventually be adapted to work with ground vehicles, but for now the warehouses act as a resupply point. However it is an option that should probably be implemented, I'll forward the request.

Thanks for the clarification Grimes :)

Res. manager has a great potential not only for campaigns but also for short mission making: think about the possibility to set a group "low ammo" at the start of the mission: you will really need some resupply tasks for ground commander and OPFOR could really be encouraged to plan some interdiction activity on the supply chain.

A. This point is't really much a problem, should be up to the mission designer to set appropriate groups composition separating firing platoons from supply platoons.

B. I will test this ASAP and report here.

C. Whitout thinking of a switch to be manually triggered (Add design workload) it could be much more simplier if the reload capability of a supply group could be intended as a "single event" for every truck-unit in the supply convoy (or for every group to simplify), not repeatable. Then, this single reload capability should be added again when the supply convoy gets at 100 mt or less from a warehouse.

Some tuning is always possibile (as fuel, or rearm capability only for ammo loaded warehouse, etc etc), but at this point we probably don't need them so deeper :).

I think the ground units re-arming feature was implemented more as a feature for Combined Arms than it was for the warehouse system. Warehouses for aircraft is obviously slightly more "deep" as it tracks weapon, aircraft, and fuel data at different warehouses, whereas re-arming is like standing next to a dispenser in TF2 and that weapons aren't actually tracked. For the most part it is indeed a very useful feature as it can prioritize warehouses/resupply trucks for mission design objects or for re-arming units in prolonged missions more efficiently. Also the aircraft resource management does impact things as ground forces should be able to rearm when near airbases, farps, or static warehouses. However at the same time it does throw a wrench in some missions that have combat vehicles parked near warehouses, effectively giving those AI units infinite ammo if they stay there.

Sorry to bother you with some questions,

How do actually this resupply works? I had put trucks in the same column with the armor but it doesn't seem to work... I tried to take control of a tank and pressed Alt+' for rearming and it says (by a message in upper left corner) that reload cannot be done or something.

What is "GT.warehouse = true" means? I looked for it in ME but failed to find it.

Thanks.

You must expend ammunition and be within a certain distance in order for the vehicle to be re-armed from a warehouse.

Different warehouses have different max distances to get re-armed from

If I recall the numbers are something like:

100m For mobile warehouses (M-818, Ural 375, Ural 375 PBU)

250-500m for warehouses/FARPs

1000m for airbases

GT.warehouse is simply an entry in the database files that defines if a specific unit type is a warehouse. Aside from finding out specifically which vehicles have this property, it is of no importance to the end user.

aha... so my problem was I had not empy my ammo. I was trying to get my storage full so I can drive away from the truck to engagement zone.

thanks for info.

I was thinking that a workaround for the "infinite ammo" point could be creating a script that "move" the logistic group ( ie M818 ) away from fighting groups if they are inside the reloading range of 100 mt. For example if an allied fighting unit is detected nearer than 100 mt to any resupply capable unit for more than 5 minutes an automatic waitpoint is added to any direction 300 mt from starting position.

That will work always but near airport or warehouses.... and obviously would work only if groups are created with this in mind (no M818 in a armored tank platoon...).

Thanks for the clarification Grimes :)

 

Res. manager has a great potential not only for campaigns but also for short mission making: think about the possibility to set a group "low ammo" at the start of the mission: you will really need some resupply tasks for ground commander and OPFOR could really be encouraged to plan some interdiction activity on the supply chain.

How do you set a group low on ammo at the start of the mission?

Currently not possible. Hopefully it will be added in sometime down the line, but for now, its not in the sim. Only aircraft and helicopters have complex munition stores.

How do you set a group low on ammo at the start of the mission?

I don't: that is why I wrote "think a the possibility" :P. Maybe it's possibile by script but I don't know how.

I have to test a workaround: spawning an "immortal" enemy in range of the units so that they will fire what they have at it, and then (after "n" seconds, let's say 15 minutes) despawn the group. If everything goes as intended, the units should be low of ammo if not empty. At the moment I'm simply completing the resource net test.

Besides, I still don't figured out how to fast configure multiple ammo-only warehouse... I miss SO MUCH the ability to copy & paste them as I can do over units... :(. I miss this as much as I miss the access to the current warehouse loadout.

I don't: that is why I wrote "think a the possibility" :P. Maybe it's possibile by script but I don't know how.

 

I have to test a workaround: spawning an "immortal" enemy in range of the units so that they will fire what they have at it, and then (after "n" seconds, let's say 15 minutes) despawn the group. If everything goes as intended, the units should be low of ammo if not empty. At the moment I'm simply completing the resource net test.

 

Hopefully someone creates a MIST script for expending ammo. In most of my missions it would look pretty stupid to have fifteen minutes of carnage just to expend the ammo... :P

As Grimes said, vehicles have not a complex storage system (and honestly I don't expect it). So, since the first 20' of a mission could be used to ramp-start and departure procedures, isn't that bad... if works: I have to test it yet.

As Grimes said, vehicles have not a complex storage system (and honestly I don't expect it). So, since the first 20' of a mission could be used to ramp-start and departure procedures, isn't that bad... if works: I have to test it yet.

What would happen if you set the mission to begin at 0900 hours but the planes spawn at 0930 hours? Would the combat happen in the backround :unsure:

I don't know, but I suppose yes. Try to test it if you can ;)

I don't know, but I suppose yes. Try to test it if you can ;)

Nope. "Your flight is delayed to start" :(

Hopefully someone creates a MIST script for expending ammo. In most of my missions it would look pretty stupid to have fifteen minutes of carnage just to expend the ammo... :P

Everything Mist can do is already part of the scripting engine, we just use the scripting engine to make common, useful functions. Chromium basically described the only real way to make ground AI use up ammunition. However you still have no control over what weapons the AI use anyways.

Honestly, if you want to simulate limited munitions for ground units the best idea would simply track the weapons used by the AI and then set their ROE to hold fire once they have fired more than you want them to, or even turn of individual unit AI. However that can become problematic due to how it works and specifically what you are trying to accomplish.

I have a mission where the prior combat is "assumed" and the units sit deactivated but "visible." Then once the resupply convoys get within parameters I simply activate the units and they go about their assigned routes and kill everything in sight.

This is flag based for the most part- once a certain number of convoys get into a certain zone a flag is thrown. After 20 minutes of "reload" time the deactivated visible units come alive.

This works for me because in the scenario they're "out of fuel and ammo from having extended beyond the reach of their supply train" and are static anyway... with a couple of live units amongst them to keep everyone honest.

Yes, you can also make this work with units sets to "hold fire": that make possible passive defence like disperse, like you're out of ammo but still have fuel.

Another idea: could be interesting trying to emulate fuel consumption with a function that track an equation of "speed*distance*slope" (or simple distance), assuming that after "n" kilometers run at "k" speed a group should be out of fuel and then is set AI OFF and not controllable by player (for CA user). The normal condition could be re-set if a "warehouse" unit type (like M818) come within resupply range (100 mt).

I think it should be scriptable this way, or not? :) (Grimes this is not a request, it's more a MIST 3.x wishlist add-on :P)

Was there any change in the reload system? I just have a mission where I have placed some Bradleys, some tanks and some M818 trucks. I have taken control of the Bradley and shot the two TOWs. then I parked right beside the truck (does it matter it's not in the same group?) After over an hour no relad...

edit: gnah, found it..LCtrl+R

edit2: It seems that Trucks are not even needed. The AI units resupply even miles away from the next truck

edit2: It seems that Trucks are not even needed. The AI units resupply even miles away from the next truck

Sure you weren't reloading the launchers vs actually being resupplied? There is a difference between reload and rearm/resupply. Most vehicles have some kind of internal storage of munitions. The Bradley has 2 missiles in the launcher + 5 in storage. As long as you have fired 1 Tow you can reload the launcher at any time.

LCtrl + R is to force a reload while LAlt + \ starts the rearm process if near a warehouse.