PeterP Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) before it gets ugly here... ;) Avery simple test: Record a track where you make 'excessive' manoeuvring at the edge of ELT/VSR . Than de-install the Huey module and use the download instead of the updater. If the track plays the same - nothing about the flight-model has changed. Sorry - I can't do it - as I have no tracks from 'before'. Edit: The same should work vice versa - here is a track that has been recorded with the downloaded Huey module. Check if it plays the same with the updated via the auto-updater by comparing it with the vid. >>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=109925 If it re-plays the same = nothing has changed. Edited July 12, 2013 by PeterP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 the list of MD5 or SHA256 sums of 'wrong' files, please. I have no list of wrong files I have simply stated what has been HAPPENING... I thought I was quite clear on that since it has been stated repeatedly... Also, since I have also stated that my system has been fixed I really can't provide any list of wrong files can I? Not sure where your attitude is coming from as I am simply trying to help folks fix an issue that they are having. Your responses thus far appear to be rather nasty and insinuates that I am full of crap... Just to make it clear.. I am not full of crap. Thank you... My question to you is would you rahter know about an issue or would you rather sweep it under the rug and ignore it? 1 "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 before it gets ugly here... ;) Avery simple test: Record a track where you make 'excessive' manoeuvring at the edge of ELT/VSR . Than de-install the Huey module and use the download instead of the updater. If the track plays the same - nothing about the flight-model has changed. Sorry - I can't do it - as I have no tracks from 'before'. Edit: The same should work vice versa - here is a track that has been recorded with the downloaded Huey module. Check if it plays the same with the updated via the auto-updater by comparing it with the vid. >>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=109925 If it re-plays the same = nothing has changed. That is a good suggestion, but i have already fixed my system and can't get back to where I was... Besides, I know for a FACT (And so does SPAS and a few other folks that tried my fix) that it works and made a dramatic change in the flight model. Which makes sense because the latest and greatest flight model was fixed and works great... It just did not load using the auto updater... "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irregular programming Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Then maybe you can explain why it is that folks are having these issues and re-installing the latest module DOES fix the issue? As I am not a member of the ED programming team it is not really my responsibility to chase down WHY these things occur, and maybe my assessment of the installer is incorrect, but I can tell you that SOMETHING is amiss and there are others that have followed my instructions that can back me upon that... So maybe you might want to check into why this issue is occurring rather than simply tell me that I am wrong... Because there never was a problem with the fligth model to begin with? I sure as hell haven't reinstalled, and I fly it perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 That is a good suggestion, but i have already fixed my system and can't get back to where I was... Besides, I know for a FACT (And so does SPAS and a few other folks that tried my fix) that it works and made a dramatic change in the flight model. Which makes sense because the latest and greatest flight model was fixed and works great... It just did not load using the auto updater... ...you can also delete the core files of your Huey install >> ..Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Uh-1H\... And than run a DCS repair afterwards - than you should have the files that are provided by the auto-updater and not from the module-download. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Because there never was a problem with the fligth model to begin with? I sure as hell haven't reinstalled, and I fly it perfectly fine. Did you read ANY of the threads thus far? Clearly not.. Please do not comment on things until you know what you are talking about.. This issue has been gone over MANY times and I have already proven there to be an issue and I have successfully fixed it with a work around on my machine and several others. As I have stated at least 50 times now. Just because you don't see it on YOUR machine does not mean it isn't a very real issue on someone else's machine. "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team c0ff Posted July 12, 2013 ED Team Share Posted July 12, 2013 I have no list of wrong files I have simply stated what has been HAPPENING... I thought I was quite clear on that since it has been stated repeatedly... Also, since I have also stated that my system has been fixed I really can't provide any list of wrong files can I? Not sure where your attitude is coming from as I am simply trying to help folks fix an issue that they are having. Your responses thus far appear to be rather nasty and insinuates that I am full of crap... Just to make it clear.. I am not full of crap. Thank you... My question to you is would you rahter know about an issue or would you rather sweep it under the rug and ignore it? There's always a possibility for a bug in the code. However, 1) we need clear steps to reproduce the issue in order to fix it 2) overly emotional posts increase the impression of the possibility of a user error A subtle, rare, edge-case bug with no steps to reproduce will not get any attention, because it can very-well be a user error, a hardware fault, or even a snake oil effect. And searching for such a bug will divert out limited resources from more defined and important areas. Dmitry S. Baikov @ Eagle Dynamics LockOn FC2 Soundtrack Remastered out NOW everywhere - https://band.link/LockOnFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeKilla Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) I hate to say this but I think I had the same issue of flying with an old flight model with hard VRS even while a new update was out the updater might not have seen as when the 'pulled' update came out that had nothing to do with the Huey or updating it's flight model, I may have gotten the new flight model that might have been missed. (I always run update daily that's why surprised) It's really a'lot harder now to get into VRS and it's nothing to do with flight hours, I hate to agree but something might have been up. Edited July 12, 2013 by TimeKilla Making it clearer? 1 :joystick: YouTube :pilotfly: TimeKilla on Flight Sims over at YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 There's always a possibility for a bug in the code. However, 1) we need clear steps to reproduce the issue in order to fix it 2) overly emotional posts increase the impression of the possibility of a user error A subtle, rare, edge-case bug with no steps to reproduce will not get any attention, because it can very-well be a user error, a hardware fault, or even a snake oil effect. And searching for such a bug will divert out limited resources from more defined and important areas. Fair enough... My emotion comes from the fact that I have to restate things over and over when folks that have not read the thread and have no idea what they are talking about make statements that muddy the situation. The fact that multiple individuals have had the same issues and that these issues were cleared up by the workaround I have provided should be ample evidence that something is amiss and is not user error... With all of this in mind, I will think about how we can reproduce this issue. Since I have used the workaround I don't have any way of reproducing this without risking breaking my install... (And just like you there are no guarantees that I can reproduce this myself once it has been successfully fixed.) "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 There's always a possibility for a bug in the code. However, 1) we need clear steps to reproduce the issue in order to fix it #128 + #132 Happy testing! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team c0ff Posted July 12, 2013 ED Team Share Posted July 12, 2013 ...you can also delete the core files of your Huey install >> ..Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Uh-1H\... And than run a DCS repair afterwards - than you should have the files that are provided by the auto-updater and not from the module-download. As I stated previously, the files in the updater and the installer are identical. The only case when this bug may exist, is when the updater incorrectly applies incremental updates. Repair is not this case. As for tracks, comparing file hashes is a more robust and quick method. Dmitry S. Baikov @ Eagle Dynamics LockOn FC2 Soundtrack Remastered out NOW everywhere - https://band.link/LockOnFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 As I stated previously, the files in the updater and the installer are identical. The only case when this bug may exist, is when the updater incorrectly applies incremental updates. Repair is not this case. As for tracks, comparing file hashes is a more robust and quick method. Yes, that is what I have been describing, is an issue with the incremental auto update... (My original statement is below.. This was in reference to the "Vortex Trap" thread from quite some time ago... ) "OK so after a lot of thought I decided to take a closer look at the version of DCS I am using and yep it is the latest and greatest... HOWEVER... Since there doesn't seem to be a way to figure out the last revision # for the individual modules installed.. (At least I can't figure out how to do this) I decided to look at what the latest download revision is compared to the one I used when I last loaded DCS... Interestingly, the one I used ended in 168 and the latest download is 186.. So I downloaded 186, fully uninstalled the previous module, rebooted and reloaded the latest and greatest and guess what? I have not augered into the ground EVEN ONE TIME since re-installing the latest module.. As a matter of fact I have not even gotten a single whiff of VRS or settling with power issues... NO IDEA WHY, but it appears that the auto-updater although appearing to work fine is not.. (At least for me anyway.) And yes I tried multiple times to manually force DCS to look for any updates and all appeared to be well.." So in summary, I installed DCS (Not sure the exact version at the time) loaded the existing modules that ended with .168 and ran for quite sometime using the auto updater... I had a lot of issues even after the new flight model was released and then after much back and forth on this board I tried the uninstall re-install procedure I mentioned above, installing .186 module and this FIXED THE ISSUE for me... Since then I have heleped several folks on this board that had the same issue and they have responded back that they were grateful for my help... "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rongor Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 You have to let faith do it's magic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team c0ff Posted July 12, 2013 ED Team Share Posted July 12, 2013 So in summary, I installed DCS (Not sure the exact version at the time) loaded the existing modules that ended with .168 and ran for quite sometime using the auto updater... I had a lot of issues even after the new flight model was released and then after much back and forth on this board I tried the uninstall re-install procedure I mentioned above, installing .186 module and this FIXED THE ISSUE for me... The latest release of DCS is 1.2.4.12913.167 The latest installers are 1.2.4.12913_186 It is the same release. If you insist on nitpicking, please, notice that _186 is not .186 Looks like the updater should not show the last part of the version. Dmitry S. Baikov @ Eagle Dynamics LockOn FC2 Soundtrack Remastered out NOW everywhere - https://band.link/LockOnFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 The latest release of DCS is 1.2.4.12913.167 The latest installers are 1.2.4.12913_186 It is the same release. If you insist on nitpicking, please, notice that _186 is not .186 Looks like the updater should not show the last part of the version. NITPICKING? I try to help your issue and I am nitpicking? Once again did you read what I said? I started with 168 and the autoupdater did not incrementaly update my system as it should and THEN I had to uninstall and reinstall the latest version 186 and it fixed the issue. I am done with you and your nasty attitude.. Clearly ED is not interested in providing a quality product to it's paying customers.. Clearly there is no recourse for anyone that is having this issue so you folks are on your own. "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team c0ff Posted July 12, 2013 ED Team Share Posted July 12, 2013 There is a hash checking utility from a trusted source: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/841290 I can provide an XML-file with hashes for correct UH-1H module files. Dmitry S. Baikov @ Eagle Dynamics LockOn FC2 Soundtrack Remastered out NOW everywhere - https://band.link/LockOnFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) As I stated previously, the files in the updater and the installer are identical. The only case when this bug may exist, is when the updater incorrectly applies updates. Repair is not this case. As for tracks, comparing file hashes is a more robust and quick method. No problem - just tried to help and show you a way how to recreate the state we are talking about. If this doesn't work like I suggested - sorry. So then jut try to find someone that used only used incremental updates . and let him replay my track - if the track ends without a crash and or in the right parking slot (like in the vid) - you have a proof if something is different in the FM of the Huey . This takes just 8 min (the duration of the Track). - and after it we can go back to 'normal duty'. :) Edited July 12, 2013 by PeterP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team c0ff Posted July 12, 2013 ED Team Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) I am done with you and your nasty attitude.. Wait. We're not done yet. I started with 168 and the autoupdater did not incrementaly update my system as it should and THEN I had to uninstall and reinstall the latest version 186 and it fixed the issue. There's no .168 version of the DCS. If you mean 1.2.4.12913.167 then it's the latest one and it can't be updated further until we release a new version (which we haven't done yet). So, assuming you installed 1.2.4.12913.167: 1) you found a bug with UH-1H FM 2) you tried to update, but it didn't - quite naturally, it's still the latest version 3) you downloaded 1.2.4.12913_186 installers and installed from scratch 4) the bug disappeared. That's your story as I see it now. My side of the story is that the files in 1.2.4.12913.167 update and in 1.2.4.12913_186 installers are essentially the same. Moreover, 1.2.4.12913_186 installers were built from the update 1.2.4.12913.167. I can prove it with SHA256 or whatever hash your prefer. EDIT: Clearly ED is not interested in providing a quality product to it's paying customers.. While we entertain the rest of the forum, some ED computers are busy testing incremental updates from 1.2.4.11652.147 to 1.2.4.12913.167 with World + UH-1H module. Edited July 12, 2013 by c0ff Dmitry S. Baikov @ Eagle Dynamics LockOn FC2 Soundtrack Remastered out NOW everywhere - https://band.link/LockOnFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Wait. We're not done yet. There's no .168 version of the DCS. If you mean 1.2.4.12913.167 then it's the latest one and it can't be updated further until we release a new version (which we haven't done yet). So, assuming you installed 1.2.4.12913.167: 1) you found a bug with UH-1H FM 2) you tried to update, but it didn't - quite naturally, it's still the latest version 3) you downloaded 1.2.4.12913_186 installers and installed from scratch 4) the bug disappeared. That's your story as I see it now. My side of the story is that the files in 1.2.4.12913.167 update and in 1.2.4.12913_186 installers are essentially the same. Moreover, 1.2.4.12913_186 installers were built from the update 1.2.4.12913.167. I can prove it with SHA256 or whatever hash your prefer. Not a STORY friend, the FACTS: The downloaded MODULE for the Huey was _168 when I first installed it... The incremental updater was used after that and did not update as the model was updated by ED. I then manually installed the latest _186 file and all was well... You can believe me or not, but it is not a story it is the facts "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team c0ff Posted July 12, 2013 ED Team Share Posted July 12, 2013 I then manually installed the latest _186 file and all was well... You can believe me or not, but it is not a story it is the facts Facts look like this: "timestamp": "20130628-123922", "version": "1.2.4.12913.167" ... [ "Mods/aircrafts/Uh-1H/Cockpit/Resources/IndicationTextures/Indication_arcade_UH.tga", "3db15c53d3c29bf43b5a6537f3eb9ea1668ffb831bfe25af6ada9e4660e1ec03", 147500 ], [ "Mods/aircrafts/Uh-1H/Cockpit/Resources/IndicationTextures/font_general.tga", "dd03f4470111fc5347fe4fb5fec51ad2e2eb72551afc177e282e96299f17cd94", 4194348 ], ... Dmitry S. Baikov @ Eagle Dynamics LockOn FC2 Soundtrack Remastered out NOW everywhere - https://band.link/LockOnFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Facts look like this: "timestamp": "20130628-123922", "version": "1.2.4.12913.167" ... [ "Mods/aircrafts/Uh-1H/Cockpit/Resources/IndicationTextures/Indication_arcade_UH.tga", "3db15c53d3c29bf43b5a6537f3eb9ea1668ffb831bfe25af6ada9e4660e1ec03", 147500 ], [ "Mods/aircrafts/Uh-1H/Cockpit/Resources/IndicationTextures/font_general.tga", "dd03f4470111fc5347fe4fb5fec51ad2e2eb72551afc177e282e96299f17cd94", 4194348 ], ... Gee that's great, but isn't that the version of DCS? I have been talking about the INSTALLERS... And could it be that the INSTALLER may be NAMED ending in _186 but that the internal version number may be slightly different? All I have to go on was the NAME of the installer file as it was when it was pulled off of your site.. "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterP Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) while Outlaw and c0ff are busy checking hashes... ;) - can please anyone that didn't used the direct Huey module download and is still on a Huey version that is updated by the autoupdater , please check if this track matches with the video on their install : >> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=109925 Thank you very much! Edited July 12, 2013 by PeterP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team c0ff Posted July 12, 2013 ED Team Share Posted July 12, 2013 Gee that's great, but isn't that the version of DCS? I have been talking about the INSTALLERS... And could it be that the INSTALLER may be NAMED ending in _186 but that the internal version number may be slightly different? All I have to go on was the NAME of the installer file as it was when it was pulled off of your site.. Looks like you mean installers 1.2.4.11652_168. You are lucky. By coincidence, we a currently testing the update from this very version to the latest release ;) And we will change the naming of the installers to prevent such epic misunderstanding in the future. Dmitry S. Baikov @ Eagle Dynamics LockOn FC2 Soundtrack Remastered out NOW everywhere - https://band.link/LockOnFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Looks like you mean installers 1.2.4.11652_168. You are lucky. By coincidence, we a currently testing the update from this very version to the latest release ;) And we will change the naming of the installers to prevent such epic misunderstanding in the future. Lucky? How am I lucky? You have berated me on this for pages and now I don't even get an "Oops my bad?" from you... "By coincidence, we a currently testing the update from this very version to the latest release " By coincidence? Right... So miraculously, the exact version of installer I am talking about that is causing issue for multiple customers was selected for your testing and it is simply mere coincidence? Sounds more like you guys knew there was an issue and decided to bust my chops for multiple pages rather than just admit it... So I am not full of CRAP am I? Nor are the other folks that have had this issue.. I have to say I am less than impressed my friend... "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team c0ff Posted July 12, 2013 ED Team Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'm sorry, I'm not from the support staff. Ok, we'll build several layers of bureaucracy, so such issues will get an immediate attention. And! Without even a hint of humour. Dmitry S. Baikov @ Eagle Dynamics LockOn FC2 Soundtrack Remastered out NOW everywhere - https://band.link/LockOnFC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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