Starter Button

Hi guys, I am just wondering, am I the only one who is feeling slightly disappointed with the decision to move the starter button from the bottom of the collective to the top In place of the idle stop release button.

Starter switch (only for this game)1

1 In reality this button is the “engine idle stop release switch” and does not have "engine start" functionality.

I know this is only a minor thing, but considering the whole idea of a simulator is to simulate an item, then the whole point is that it is identical. If you start moving switches around to suit yourself, well it becomes an artistic representation and not a simulation.

It may not seem like a huge deal, but I must say for myself as a Simmer, nothing winds me up more than artistic representations as I'm sure Iris can testify about ref their Grob 109 for FSX.

Now don't get me wrong, items not being implemented I can understand, I was never expecting everything to work at first at it is a beta, I mean we still have certain switches in Blackshark and A10 that don't work, but physically moving switches................

Yes I admit the location of the real starter switch under the collective is a pain, but one that is easily overcome by have a hidden switch ala Huey X, just click on the throttle lock and it activates the starter.

I was wondering if you can confirm or not, whether this s a stop gap, just to get us the Beta and it will change back to the correct location later, or this is a final decision.

I'm sorry for this moan EB and PilotMI8, I know you and the team have worked very hard to bring us this aircraft, and I truly am still looking forward to it. As I hope I have shown with my postings here, I am passionant about this aircraft and the DCS series as a whole, maybe not as passionant as Hueyman, but not far off I don't think.

I know it's only a small thing, but it's something I can't get out of my head, as it will stop me using 100% accurate checklists and procedures. Which for me is the whole point of simulation in the first place.

Cowboy10uk

+1 :doh:

+1

Hope this will be corrected for final release....

:thumbup:

+0 for now.

I'm unsure what the matter as i still haven't studied the whole book yet.

If the switch is invisible from pilot position, it may be needed to move it for the sake of playability. If no one can click the button, no one will fly, right ?

It won't be realistic 100% - but well, if BELL designer had to design a cockpit where the pilot wouldn't be able to touch anything that would not have been visible, they would have placed it somewhere else too.

I am really against any realism-killer tweak. Here we are talking about a single button position.

Not everyone has TrackIR :)

I understand the decision to use the idle-stop. It is easely clickable and the simpit builders will come up with their own mechanical idle stop and starter button and won't use the virtual cockpit anyway. So my problem is not so much with the button being unrealistically assigned.

What i understand from the manual though is that as a result of this decision it left us without a proper engine shutdown procedure in that fully closing the throttle doesn't shut down the engine in the sim.

I would rather see that the throttle range had a minimum of 6% and then a button assigned to idle-stop to enable the user to fully close the throttle if it's controlling axis or slider is at it's minimum range. This would then allow engine shutdown to be coded in at full-closed throttle, right?

And as for the starter button: the clickable one in the cockpit could just as well be the tension adjustment ring on the collective, or even the side of the switchbox if you want to.

That would make a lot of people happy without losing the ease of controlling engine start while using the mouse.

I know this is only a minor thing, but considering the whole idea of a simulator is to simulate an item, then the whole point is that it is identical. If you start moving switches around to suit yourself, well it becomes an artistic representation and not a simulation.

If I am not wrong it seems also to affect the start-up procedure:

"d) Throttle − Slowly advance past the engine idle stop to the engine

idle position. Manually check the engine idle stop by attempting to

close the throttle (not implemented in DCS: UH-1H)."

I am really against any realism-killer tweak. Here we are talking about a single button position.

IMO its not a problem to move the button but they replaced another button by this. Maybe a solution would be to place the "start button" on the right side of the throttle where IRL no buttons are but then you can see it still in the 3D pit?

Anyway, I will fly it but would be nice to be fixed. :thumbup:

But its no problem.

Thrustmaster must make a Huey Control Stick :joystick:

Or you must push a button on the tastatur :D

I think its better when the Buttons on the Original place.like the A-10.

no compromise

The button it replaced is a physical one, as it it's not an electronic switch to something, it just physically blocks the throttle from moving. If they implemented this in the game you'd have to click and hold the button, while moving the throttle, which would make it more difficult for certain set-ups.

Considering start-up is a once-per-flight kinda thing (assuming all goes well ¬.¬), it doesn't bother me that much. As long as it flies correctly and weapon employment is fun, though I'm still a bit confused with what liberties they took with that, but as I said, as long as it's fun. I'm more interested in troop transport than gunship to be quite honest.

this decision it left us without a proper engine shutdown procedure

That a DCS Huey. 99% of people on that forum will never land properly the huey. Eventually crashlanding. :P

The 1% that will survive 5 min flying the huey.... Well. . . They will get shot down by migs and SAM's :)

The button it replaced is a physical one, as it it's not an electronic switch to something, it just physically blocks the throttle from moving. If they implemented this in the game you'd have to click and hold the button, while moving the throttle, which would make it more difficult for certain set-ups.

Not 100% true. The idle cutoff activate a solenoid that allows you to retard the throttle to idle cutoff. It's an electronic switch. But works as you said.

The hardware limitations of the general public makes the process hard to simulate without custom hardware. Think of the A10, you have to manually lift the throttle to start/shutdown the engines. This is the ONLY part of the Huey that is not 100%. Within reason, of course.

But for example on a X-52 you could assign one of the slider axis as throttle axis and then you can hold an other button as this idle cutoff button.

At least it would be nice if you had the choice as user to chose between "real" or "simplified" startup/shutdown.

Not 100% true. The idle cutoff activate a solenoid that allows you to retard the throttle to idle cutoff. It's an electronic switch. But works as you said.

In the Huey the component that is blocking the 5-0% movement of the throttle is located near the engine, not the collective lever, and as Krebs20 wrote - it is operated electrically... unless it fails ;)

Not 100% true. The idle cutoff activate a solenoid that allows you to retard the throttle to idle cutoff. It's an electronic switch. But works as you said.

 

The hardware limitations of the general public makes the process hard to simulate without custom hardware. Think of the A10, you have to manually lift the throttle to start/shutdown the engines. This is the ONLY part of the Huey that is not 100%. Within reason, of course.

Thank you for that explanation. I do understand the reasons for it, was just a little disappointed as was hoping for it to be completely 100%. But that's just my preference, I'm not planning to use the collective anyway for startup, as I'm hoping I will be able to set up my warthog throttle, with the starter button and throttle, it's just the principle that's all. :)

Fingers crossed we get get this working with Helios ASAP so I don't have to use the mouse at all.

Cowboy10uk

Don't know why it's such a big deal...

Conex ( Dreamfoil Creation ) did a really nice job in his ultra realistic recreation of teh Bell 206 Jet Ranger III for X-Plane where your throttle ( http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/solon_2006/collective.jpg ) axis control the whole range against that idle stop... that you can pass over by clicking on that button, or assign a joystick input button to do that.

That is very reliable and natural, and you really feel like you start a Bell 206 ( you have your both hands on the collective for start up, one for pushing the Starter button, the other to twist the throttle grip from 0 to 5% ( then you can't go further back without pushing " idle rel. button " again

Hoped just that for this one...

That's exactly what i meant to propose, only in more clear english.

+1 on this solution.

Ok sorry ;-) I'm French and my English is somewhat limited

They should have retained the Idle detent switch and just use a keyboard command for the start action, which is probably Home just as in P-51.

This imperfection wouldn't keep me from purchasing Huey, but for the sake of realism.....get that Idle detent switch where it belongs and forget about a clickable start button.

Ok sorry ;-) I'm French and my English is somewhat limited

Lol, I mean it is my english that is lacking (As you just pointed out with this post), yours is the better formulated one. So, sorry for not being more clear twice!

Autant pour moi ;-)

Yeah, hope they'll do something in future versions.

It's already soooo nice that all procedures seems to be realistic, why should we ask for more ?!( lol I know, I'm the first to do so... )

It's already soooo nice that all procedures seems to be realistic, why should we ask for more ?!( lol I know, I'm the first to do so... )

Always request the best, the quality is here. I expect this consumer base the demand nothing less than the best product possible. Please, make your judgements when the beta is out. If the testing has taught me anything, nothing is final. Nothing with never be fixed or changed. Anything is possible.

+0 for now.

 

I'm unsure what the matter as i still haven't studied the whole book yet.

 

If the switch is invisible from pilot position, it may be needed to move it for the sake of playability. If no one can click the button, no one will fly, right ?

 

It won't be realistic 100% - but well, if BELL designer had to design a cockpit where the pilot wouldn't be able to touch anything that would not have been visible, they would have placed it somewhere else too.

 

I am really against any realism-killer tweak. Here we are talking about a single button position.

 

Not everyone has TrackIR :)

+1

when you build your huey simpit, just put it in the right location. :smilewink:

If no one can click the button, no one will fly, right?

One could perhaps bind a key to it and try again I think ;)

It is easy to implement the Starter button and the Idle Cutoff button.

For the start button, just create a zone on the collective or throttle where is should be the starter button (like an invisible click area).

For the Idle Cutoff button, it should be where it is in real life.

The process could be done by assign a starter button on the joystick/HOTAS, or by having a two clicks with the mouse, press and hold the starter with left button, open throttle to idle detent with right mouse button.

For the Idle Cutoff, simply turn the throttle all the way to the idle detent, and then when you click the Idle Cutoff, you could with the mouse rotate the thorttle further for cutoff.

There are better ways to simulate than just put buttons where they don't match.

For users with the proper hardware, it should then be available an option in the menu, to allow for the travel of the throttle mechanically, instead with the mouse.

Use your imagination, then code it. Keep it simple and pratical, but please try to mimic the real startup procedure.

DODOSim Bell 206 for FSX implemented that pretty well. As well as Bell 206 from DreamFoil for X-Plane.

Best regards.