Transfer Coordinates TPOD --> JDAM

When slewing the TPOD while the JDAM TOO mission format display is active, the coordinates are constantly transferred and updated at the JDAM page.

I would expect that the update only is performed, if TDC is depressed in order to deliberately designate a target.

I can, for example, slew offset cursor of the TPOD (ATRK/PTRK) around and the coordinates are only transferred if TDC is depressed. That makes sense to me: I could step through several JDAMs and set each target coordinate by TDC depress with the offset cursor while the TPOD is only looking in the general target area. This should work also with the normal OPR target diamond, right? But there is now always the risk that I mess up the coordinates by accidentally slewing the TPOD.

Thoughts? Is this a bug or is my thinking wrong here?

tl;dr

JDAM coordinate transfer should ONLY happen on TDC depress/release, not by just looking around with the TPOD.

I can, for example, slew offset cursor of the TPOD (ATRK/PTRK) around and the coordinates are only transferred if TDC is depressed. That makes sense to me: I could step through several JDAMs and set each target coordinate by TDC depress with the offset cursor while the TPOD is only looking in the general target area. This should work also with the normal OPR target diamond, right? But there is now always the risk that I mess up the coordinates by accidentally slewing the TPOD.

I have little trouble to understand the offset cursor. As in Wags video about it, he says that you can use offset cursor for laser designation for a new target by pressing TDC and it will as well update the solid diamond in HUD. But then in the comments it is questioned that should laser point to center and not to offset like is said?

JDAM coordinate transfer should ONLY happen on TDC depress/release, not by just looking around with the TPOD.

That would sound logical, as otherwise you could be uploading coordinates just simply by shaking the pod, or starting to track a moving target.

As now there is like three logics in:

1) TOO mode uploads coordinates constantly to JADM when sleeving the TPOD or offset cursor around, instead only when the TDC is pressed.

2) Offset cursor designation updates the designation for AUTO delivery, but not for laser guidance.

3) Offset cursor designation should update laser designation too, without moving the TPOD FOV itself.

Well, it is a Work In Progress, so maybe we get it clarified in the end.

I think, I found something out now ...

There is the small cross that is slewable in OPR, if no target designation exists (i.e. snow-plough mode). No coordinates are transfered in this case.

When designating with TDC depress, the TPOD reticle changes to the regular tgt diamond. Now this coordinate is transferred to the JDAM. But as the tgt diamond remains active when slewing now, the coordinates are constantly updated.

I wasn't really aware that there are two different reticles in OPR mode, lol.

When designating a tgt while in ATRK or PTRK with the offset cursor, only at TDC depress the coordinates are transferred. Which makes some sense, as the offset cursor is not the "currently designated target diamond"

So, as such, this seems to be consistent.

If I now have a WPDSG tgt, the TPOD slews to it and shows already the designated tgt diamond. If I slew the reticle away from that position, it is switched to the "no tgt designate" (small cross) reticle - until I designate a new one with TDC depress. The reticle changes to the diamond and from now on the JDAM coords are updated constantly.

And here is one small bug, I think: WPDSG is still enabled, although there is a newer designation present.

And besides all that, I still find it weired that the "designated target" diamond reticle, can not be reverted back to the "no active designation" cross somehow (without completely undesignating everything and starting over from scratch).

I think, I found something out now ...

 

 

There is the small cross that is slewable in OPR, if no target designation exists (i.e. snow-plough mode). No coordinates are transfered in this case.

 

 

When designating with TDC depress, the TPOD reticle changes to the regular tgt diamond. Now this coordinate is transferred to the JDAM. But as the tgt diamond remains active when slewing now, the coordinates are constantly updated.

 

I wasn't really aware that there are two different reticles in OPR mode, lol.

That is the Off-Set cursor. It was added just on week ago.

When designating a tgt while in ATRK or PTRK with the offset cursor, only at TDC depress the coordinates are transferred. Which makes some sense, as the offset cursor is not the "currently designated target diamond"

When I move Off-Set cursor around and depress TDC, it will move the designation diamond just like Wags explains. So nothing else is pointing to original designation than center of the targeting pod. So diamond in HUD and AUTO release point is pointing where OffSet cursor was designated.

I just don't get what Wags says in the 2:40 position as "handy way to bring eyes on the target or set up a laser guided bomb attack".

And he means that for the new Off-Set cursor designation instead "back to original target". But the laser will be pointing at the original target, so laser guided bomb will drop on that and not to off set target like said.

So the whole off-set cursor is like useless for laser guided weapon guidance as only the center of the targeting pod matters and not the offset cursor.

That is the Off-Set cursor. It was added just on week ago.

No, that is not what I meant. I am atm just focussing on the regular TPOD reticle.

This shows the reticle when there is no tgt designation (i.e. snow-plough). A cross, a bit smaller than the ATRK cross.

Then I moved this reticle and designated a point on the ground with TDC depress:

The "designated target" diamond is still slewable, but now the JDAM coordinates are constantly updated. Wherever the "designated target" diamond is, the designated target is - and thus transferred to the JDAM.

As I said, right now, I am only concerned with this, not the offset cursor. I only mentioned that earlier, because on the TPOD page, the offset cursor is not a diamond and I concluded that that is the reason why no coordinates are transferred ... as the current designated tgt point is not changed just by slewing the offset cursor. Instead, it needs a TDC depress to alter the position of the designated target point.

I just don't get what Wags says in the 2:40 position as "handy way to bring eyes on the target or set up a laser guided bomb attack".

I think what he means is this: your TPOD remains centered on the general target area, but you can designate several targets around the original target point.

But, as I seem to have learned today, just slewing the offset cursor does nothing. You need to designate a different target with TDC depress. You will then stay in the offset cursor mode while the TPOD is still centered at the original point. From there you can continue to slew and designate the next targets with the offset cursor.

Only if you leave that ATRK/PTRK mode, the regular designated tgt diamond will be slewn to the last designated point.

maybe this link will help.dont know if that what your referring to, tried his way and works fine

Yep, there is something weird going on here. I can't get my head around it though as there have been so many changes to the TPOD and JDAM in recent weeks.

What I have noticed is that although the coords are constantly being updated when the cursor is slewed around, they seem to stick to each station after the undesignate button is pressed, which doesn't actually feel too logical.

Totally different behaviour when I try in the 2.5.5. last stable release.

I'm going to battle on with this for a while longer to try and work out what is going on, but, I'm not convinced that there isn't a bug here.

I am only able to select different targets with coordinates correctly visible on stations and TOO1/TOO2 in point track mode:

For example with 4 targets:

- zoom out to be able to view all 4 targets on TPOD

- select first by going to point track and designate

- change station/too

- select second by slewing offset cursor and designate

- change station/too

- select third by slewing offset cursor and designate

- change station/too

- select fourth by slewing offset cursor and designate

- undesignate

Now all coordinates are correctly visible on stations/too

Same here, but the separate (designated) coords only seem to show on the stations after undesignate has been pressed. Cycling through them shows the same coords until undesignate has been pressed.

Also, updating the coords on the MSN page when slewing around - as per the original point of this thread - is new behaviour. That doesn't seem logical either. Previously, the coords remained at the designated ones until the TDP depress updated them.

it feels like a bug...has the OP logged it in bugs ? or can @BIGNEWY move this thread there ?

Yep, pretty sure it must be a bug. Look at the video linked to in post #7 here. The coords are not constantly updated. They are only assigned to the JDAM when TDC depress is done.

Another issue is that when all coords are input to the 4 stations and undesignate is depressed, the TPOD goes to snow plough, and if an attempt is made to bring it back to the target area by designating a waypoint, all JDAM targetting info is deleted. That also can't be right, can it?

I think I have worked out a procedure that reliably gets 4 bombs on target in TOO1 mode. I've yet to work out how to use TOO2 to deliver 8 bombs in a single run. The steps are:

1. Select A-G

2. Switch MODE to TOO on each STN

3. Select JDAM

4. EFUSE set to Instant

5. Select JDAM DSPLAY

6. Set REL TYPE to MAN or LOFT

7. DO NOT SELECT QTY

8. On TPOD select Target 1 (Stabilised mode seems to work. No need for Area or Point)

9. TDC Depress. You will see diamond over target 1

10. STEP STN

11. On TPOD select Target 2

12. TDC Depress.

13. Repeat for each STN but stop at the last

14. On TPOD UNDESIGNATE (“S”” on keyboard). DO NOT TGT on the TPOD. Let it run in Snowplow.

15. STEP through STNs to check they have unique coordinates.

16. {optional} You can go back to the JDAM DSPLAY and select QTY and bug the STNs you want to drop with a single weapon release trigger. I tend to

After release you can switch back to TGT on the TPOD so you can BDA.

Regarding step 7 - yeah, I fell into that trap when I experimented with your procedure.

If you have QTY selected, the coordinates will be updated for all selected JDAMs. And that, no matter what procedure you follow. STORES page or individual TOO MSN page, all selected bombs will update their coords.

But if you select QTY after setting individual coords, they keep them (unless you mess up with not undesignating at the end).

This seems to be some somewhat inconsisten behaviour. Why should it matter _when_ i select a certain option?

One could say, this is a quick way to deliver multiple weapons at the same target - similar to rippling a few dumb bombs. But why can I then step between the QTY selected weapons, if I can't change their setup individually? Makes no sense to me ...

I think I have worked out a procedure that reliably gets 4 bombs on target in TOO1 mode. I've yet to work out how to use TOO2 to deliver 8 bombs in a single run. The steps are:

1. Select A-G

2. Switch MODE to TOO on each STN

3. Select JDAM

4. EFUSE set to Instant

5. Select JDAM DSPLAY

6. Set REL TYPE to MAN or LOFT

7. DO NOT SELECT QTY

8. On TPOD select Target 1 (Stabilised mode seems to work. No need for Area or Point)

9. TDC Depress. You will see diamond over target 1

10. STEP STN

11. On TPOD select Target 2

12. TDC Depress.

13. Repeat for each STN but stop at the last

14. On TPOD UNDESIGNATE (“S”” on keyboard). DO NOT TGT on the TPOD. Let it run in Snowplow.

15. STEP through STNs to check they have unique coordinates.

16. {optional} You can go back to the JDAM DSPLAY and select QTY and bug the STNs you want to drop with a single weapon release trigger. I tend to

 

After release you can switch back to TGT on the TPOD so you can BDA.

yep this is shown in this link as you had the steps as he had done

I think I have worked out a procedure that reliably gets 4 bombs on target in TOO1 mode. I've yet to work out how to use TOO2 to deliver 8 bombs in a single run. The steps are:

1. Select A-G

2. Switch MODE to TOO on each STN

3. Select JDAM

4. EFUSE set to Instant

5. Select JDAM DSPLAY

6. Set REL TYPE to MAN or LOFT

7. DO NOT SELECT QTY

8. On TPOD select Target 1 (Stabilised mode seems to work. No need for Area or Point)

9. TDC Depress. You will see diamond over target 1

10. STEP STN

11. On TPOD select Target 2

12. TDC Depress.

13. Repeat for each STN but stop at the last

14. On TPOD UNDESIGNATE (“S”” on keyboard). DO NOT TGT on the TPOD. Let it run in Snowplow.

15. STEP through STNs to check they have unique coordinates.

16. {optional} You can go back to the JDAM DSPLAY and select QTY and bug the STNs you want to drop with a single weapon release trigger. I tend to

 

After release you can switch back to TGT on the TPOD so you can BDA.

Have a look at this thread if you haven’t already https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=277899

You’re steps are correct except that if you are using latest beta, you don’t need to do TDC depress at all except for the first target any more as can be seen from linked thread.

To get 8 bombs off, you need to select TOO2 for each station BEFORE you step to the next one. So, you would now have

8. Select target 1 on TPOD (for TOO1)

9. Select TOO2

10. Select target 2 on TPOD (for TOO2)

11. Step to next station

...... repeat for all 4 stations.... then start at your 14 above.

I hope that helps.

After some research, I am now convinced that the constant updating of the coordinates is correct. Also the behaviour that all respective weapons in case of QTY > 1 get updated with the same coordinates seems to be legit as well.

Source: ### self redacted, see 1.16 ###

Did you check the link in my post above? It has been marked by ED as [CORRECT AS IS], so I guess we all know now.

Sometime ago TPOD in Hornet was updated to display coordinates at the top left corner. Looks like these coordinates differ from ones displayed on TOO MSN page for JDAM/JSOW when you depress TDC to pass target coordinates from the FLIR sensor. Not only precision format is different: coordinates on FLIR pages are in seconds while TOO MSN page additionally requires two decimal digits for seconds, but values for seconds themselves are different too (see screenshot). Is it expected that coordinates displayed on FLIR page show different location from position of the diamond cursor or it's just WIP? Also is there a way to display coordinate in PRECISION mode, say if you want to pass these coordinates to another aircraft to strike with JDAM (maybe in future updates)?

UPD: Nevermind, I just realized that for FLIR page precision format for coordinates displayed is decimal minutes while for TOO MSN page it's seconds plus two digit decimal value for seconds. Is there a way to change format for FLIR page (maybe in future updates)?