SAM Triangulation

So I tried to triangulate the position of several different SAM positions using the RWR and I found that it was pretty accurate. You could probably do it several ways, but the method I used was:

1. When I first get painted by radar, fly so it lines up with a tick on the RWR. Usually I'd beam it or put it 135 degrees back (45 degrees back from beam). Also I guess you could fly straight away. It doesn't matter as long as the letter/number in the RWR symbol lines up exactly with a tick on RWR (don't fly right at it and get shot down).

2. Then I just find the same tick around the HSI and note the bearing, while at the same time hitting the "Mk" (create overhead mark point) button on the UFC. (lets call this Mark A)

3. On the CDU, I then created an new offset from that markpoint about 100 miles in the direction of the SAM (from the HSI). This will be called MSN0xx. (for this example lets call it MSN006)

4. Next, I flew around the SAM until I got painted from a different angle, and again noted the exact bearing by comparing the RWR to the HSI, and I created a markpoint at that spot. (Mark B)

5. Created another offset from the second markpoint in the second direction for about 100 miles. (MSN007)

6. Built a flightplan using the following waypoints: A, MSN006, B, MSN007.

7. There should be lines connecting all your waypoints on the TAD now. In the center the two big lines should cross. This is where the SAM is.

8. Placed a markpoint where the lines crossed on TAD (TMS right short, Mark C).

9. Added Mark C to flightplan and slewed TGP to steerpoint (or set Mark C as SPI and slave all to SPI).

10. Find SAM (usually it was pretty darn close to Mark C).

So I dunno if this is helpful to anyone, or if anyone has a better (faster) way to implement this idea. Also, I was curious if anyone knows if this is ever done IRL? (maybe in a different aircraft with a better RWR and a computer thats set up for it?) Anyway, I found this to be pretty useful for finding SAMs if you don't have any SEAD to call in and you can't get the SAM position from your wingman's superhuman vision.

I just press LSHIFT + F-10 ;)

This will work well with single SAM, however it can get really hard with multiple SAMS (i.e. multiple SAMs on same bearing, but different distances).

Also, if mission is complex, and SAMs are "scripted", so that they would activate/deactivate periodically or depending on situation (like in RL), triangulation would not help much.

Great idea, had not thought of using the offset for this.

Yep triangulation is used in RL ESM

I just press LSHIFT + F-10 ;)

Lol, that does have less steps...

very good idea.... god knows Ive spent a lot of time looking for those little bastards. Im gonna try this out.

Another way is to use a buddy in MP as a kind of wild weasel to get the SAMs to fire at him and then you can (while sitting back about 20 miles) see the sam smoke trail and then zero in on him with your pod. fun teamwork and the wild weasel is in for a hell of a ride.... ya better know your SAM threat envelopes cold too.

Yes, basically what you did, is the opposite of what I do in Silent Hunter.

2 pings and bearings and we got a fix. This time, I'm the merchant.:cry:

Nice method.

....So I dunno if this is helpful to anyone....

Jolly Good - Would definitely aid the OA10-C's up there :)

I tried it and it works but in the heat of the battle there really isn't much time to create new waypoints and flightplans. I am having a hard time to find them with my TGP. Are there any other tactics on doing so (other than sending your wingman to mark them)?

Yep egress and call SEAD!

So I tried to triangulate the position of several different SAM positions using the RWR and I found that it was pretty accurate. You could probably do it several ways, but the method I used was:

 

1. When I first get painted by radar, fly so it lines up with a tick on the RWR. Usually I'd beam it or put it 135 degrees back (45 degrees back from beam). Also I guess you could fly straight away. It doesn't matter as long as the letter/number in the RWR symbol lines up exactly with a tick on RWR (don't fly right at it and get shot down).

 

2. Then I just find the same tick around the HSI and note the bearing, while at the same time hitting the "Mk" (create overhead mark point) button on the UFC. (lets call this Mark A)

 

3. On the CDU, I then created an new offset from that markpoint about 100 miles in the direction of the SAM (from the HSI). This will be called MSN0xx. (for this example lets call it MSN006)

 

4. Next, I flew around the SAM until I got painted from a different angle, and again noted the exact bearing by comparing the RWR to the HSI, and I created a markpoint at that spot. (Mark B)

 

5. Created another offset from the second markpoint in the second direction for about 100 miles. (MSN007)

 

6. Built a flightplan using the following waypoints: A, MSN006, B, MSN007.

 

7. There should be lines connecting all your waypoints on the TAD now. In the center the two big lines should cross. This is where the SAM is.

 

8. Placed a markpoint where the lines crossed on TAD (TMS right short, Mark C).

 

9. Added Mark C to flightplan and slewed TGP to steerpoint (or set Mark C as SPI and slave all to SPI).

 

10. Find SAM (usually it was pretty darn close to Mark C).

 

 

So I dunno if this is helpful to anyone, or if anyone has a better (faster) way to implement this idea. Also, I was curious if anyone knows if this is ever done IRL? (maybe in a different aircraft with a better RWR and a computer thats set up for it?) Anyway, I found this to be pretty useful for finding SAMs if you don't have any SEAD to call in and you can't get the SAM position from your wingman's superhuman vision.

awesome post have some rep

*edit* says I can't give you rep :(

Good work. Way to do your homework.

Edit: I can't rep either.

We have a clan in MP. I'll try this, but last Sunday, I flew with the mercs and eliminated a couple SAMs by visual trail follow. The rest of the team were RTB. Got like 35 k bonus. I'd try yours for more yield on points.

I think I'm possibly the worst at sam evasion.. I hear/see launch warning drop my load and pull and roll all the while releasing chaff flame like a firework and still get nailed. I know the theory behind beaming the threat and I was a pro in BMS, but I guess reality modeled in a sim just shows me I'm not S*** :)

Yes, I know but that does not help too much in MP-Games (calling SEAD) ... :-/

That is what I love about this sim. You can do so many stuff so many different ways, nice way to pinpoint thosekilljoys! :thumbup:

Wess, the trick is to put the missle on your 3/9 line, (3 or 9 oclock)

So lets say you are flying such that the missile is on ur 3, break a bit more to the right to make it turn more, then turn to the left sharply to try and put it to the 9 position. Little turns on the 3 position because what you want to do is wait for the burner to run out.

Two turns like that and they miss at medium to long range. Close range... I have yet to divise a strategy against them... Big chance if you do it head on, but if they fire at you from any other angle... your pretty much screwed, especially if they fire RIGHt below you. There is like NO ESCAPE from that... I must have tried everything to no avail.

Wess, the trick is to put the missle on your 3/9 line, (3 or 9 oclock)

 

So lets say you are flying such that the missile is on ur 3, break a bit more to the right to make it turn more, then turn to the left sharply to try and put it to the 9 position. Little turns on the 3 position because what you want to do is wait for the burner to run out.

 

Two turns like that and they miss at medium to long range. Close range... I have yet to divise a strategy against them... Big chance if you do it head on, but if they fire at you from any other angle... your pretty much screwed, especially if they fire RIGHt below you. There is like NO ESCAPE from that... I must have tried everything to no avail.

copy that, thx for the reply i'll give it a shot.. have you had any luck with the head on spiral maneuver? I know in BMS (I know diff plane diff sim) you could go head on and when you get a launch you could barrel roll around the missile, the theory is to the missile your changing direction of flight and it is always trying to fly a lead pursuit and it will run out of energy. Not sure if the a-10 just isn't fast enough to do that or it was modeled incorrectly in BMS.

copy that, thx for the reply i'll give it a shot.. have you had any luck with the head on spiral maneuver? I know in BMS (I know diff plane diff sim) you could go head on and when you get a launch you could barrel roll around the missile, the theory is to the missile your changing direction of flight and it is always trying to fly a lead pursuit and it will run out of energy. Not sure if the a-10 just isn't fast enough to do that or it was modeled incorrectly in BMS.

That maneuver is very unrealistic. Modern RL missiles would not fall for that. I hope that once the missile flight model and seeker logic are updated, the sim will account for that.

That maneuver is very unrealistic. Modern RL missiles would not fall for that. I hope that once the missile flight model and seeker logic are updated, the sim will account for that.

Good to know thx for the info.

....and make it that much harder to dodge any missiles lol.

Well, in head on i have had to use minimal manouvering to get away from it, for example in this video i made, skip to 4:17 and you will see i barely moved and it missed with ease, though it was a shoulder fired AA

LdN31Ryp1A0&list=UU7lK8qHqm21bv2jW6TKdNKA&feature=plcp

....and make it that much harder to dodge any missiles lol.

 

Well, in head on i have had to use minimal manouvering to get away from it, for example in this video i made, skip to 4:17 and you will see i barely moved and it missed with ease, though it was a shoulder fired AA

 

LdN31Ryp1A0&list=UU7lK8qHqm21bv2jW6TKdNKA&feature=plcp

nice great vid btw

....and make it that much harder to dodge any missiles lol.

 

Well, in head on i have had to use minimal manouvering to get away from it, for example in this video i made, skip to 4:17 and you will see i barely moved and it missed with ease, though it was a shoulder fired AA

 

LdN31Ryp1A0&list=UU7lK8qHqm21bv2jW6TKdNKA&feature=plcp

It already missed before you even moved........

In other words, you got lucky. Nice video though.

I don't think that I'll ever use this, because I almost never do ground attack (and also because I'm very bad at mathematics and related activities), but it's very cool that you figured this out!

You mean you fly the A-10C and never do a ground attack? Now that's a weird one ... :D