DCS Mirage 2000C Discussion

[domini99]

The Mirage drops the bomb by CCRP on coordinates (or maybe even CCIP) like a dumb bomb. The A-10 starts lasing and the GBU will pick up the laser and follow it. It's as simple as that. It's already implemented in DCS and you can try it out: Just take two A-10Cs, one with TGP and one without a TGP but with LGBs. Now you can do buddylasing the same way like it is done with the Mirage.

 

 

Wrong way. The A-10 needs to know when to turn on the laser. That's done by talking to each other over radio. When the Mirage is dropping it's bomb the pilot tells the A-10 to turn on the laser.

Yeah...

I know....

I've buddy lased before, as practise, but I wanted to know how the Mirage knows when to release the bomb

[QuiGon]

Yeah...

I know....

I've buddy lased before, as practise, but I wanted to know how the Mirage knows when to release the bomb

 

Well, how does the A-10 (the one with the bombs and without TGP) knows that? There is no difference to the Mirage.

Simple: When the CCRP cue hits the mark on the HUD.

 

Edit:

Here is a 4 year old step by step guide: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1279988&postcount=12

Again: It should be exactly the same with the Mirage.

Edited November 17, 2015 by QuiGon

[domini99]

Well, how does the A-10 (the one with the bombs and without TGP) knows that? There is no difference to the Mirage.

Simple: When the CCRP cue hits the mark on the HUD.

 

Edit:

Here is a 4 year old step by step guide: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1279988&postcount=12

Again: It should be exactly the same with the Mirage.

So the Mirage just does CCRP on the general area of the target, (or on coordinates I can tell him), and tells me when he released the bomb so I can turn on the laser?

 

Or is there another way for the mirage to know where he has to drop the bomb?

Because this is the main question for me.

[QuiGon]

No other way. That's how it works. Either CCRP on coordinates or maybe CCIP in a dive, but I'm not sure if the latter is possible with LGBs. CCRP is the way to go.

 

Btw.: When saying this I have to think about INS drift. I guess it won't be modeled for the Mirage (like all other DCS aircraft so far)?

Edited November 17, 2015 by QuiGon

[Einherjer]

I think CCIP with a gbu is possible - the mirage handles it like a normal dumb bomb (maybe with other parameters for drag).

Remember, air to ground delivery is mostly still visually. So talking the gbu dropper on the target is common - and a ccip delivery is quick and effective for CAS and TIC situations.

Therefor, Stationary targets at bad visual conditions (night) are good for a CCRP drop on coordinates.

[Bacab]

I think CCIP with a gbu is possible - the mirage handles it like a normal dumb bomb (maybe with other parameters for drag).

Remember, air to ground delivery is mostly still visually. So talking the gbu dropper on the target is common - and a ccip delivery is quick and effective for CAS and TIC situations.

Therefor, Stationary targets at bad visual conditions (night) are good for a CCRP drop on coordinates.

When doing CCIP drop you usually are at a lower altitude (than when in CCRP) to maintain visibility on your target. Therefore the fall time might not be sufficient for the bomb to guide on the laser. So in the event of a bomb guided by laser I don't think you would use it. But that's only based on my simulation experience.

[Einherjer]

Can't say for sure, but I can image it, even from higher altitude. Man we need our binoculars! It's a little speculation maybe.

PS low level CCRP bombing runs are not less usual, but you need retarded bombs like the snakeyes or the mk82 air - but that's an other topic

[Bacab]

Can't say for sure, but I can image it, even from higher altitude. Man we need our binoculars! It's a little speculation maybe.

PS low level CCRP bombing runs are not less usual, but you need retarded bombs like the snakeyes or the mk82 air - but that's an other topic

I agree but usually when doing CCRP drop of GBU I use altitude as a protection against fire from the ground.

[Einherjer]

Absolutely and it's a precise way, but maybe a little time consuming, especially with Sam threat ;) every method has its pros and cons and what you will use depends on the situation. What I wanted to say was, knowing the exact release time is not a fixed method - A/G is often high dynamic and "this looks about right" is also used as a pinpoint strike with 3 hours pre flight planning

[Azrayen]

You don't want to start lasing either before bomb release, nor just at/after bomb release.

Not with GBU-12s.

 

GBU-12 bombs waste too much energy if they "catch" the laser immediately and try to follow it "from the start" (*). The correct procedure is, as the link given above, to begin to lase ~10-15" before impact (let's say 15 to be comfortable).

 

(*) due to their control surfaces having only 2 positions: straight and (fully) deflected. This "on/off" thing was later "corrected" on more modern weapons (e.g. GBU-49 IIRC).

[domini99]

You don't want to start lasing either before bomb release, nor just at/after bomb release.

Not with GBU-12s.

 

GBU-12 bombs waste too much energy if they "catch" the laser immediately and try to follow it "from the start" (*). The correct procedure is, as the link given above, to begin to lase ~10-15" before impact (let's say 15 to be comfortable).

 

(*) due to their control surfaces having only 2 positions: straight and (fully) deflected. This "on/off" thing was later "corrected" on more modern weapons (e.g. GBU-49 IIRC).

I know....

I know....

But I'm asking for the way how the Mirage knows how to release the bomb.

 

I know how to lase for buddy, but I'm interested in how the Mirage could know where to drop the bomb (like from high altitude)

 

This entire buddy lasing thing...

I've already done it multiple times, with a friend just not equiping a TGP and doing CCRP using a SPI created using the HUD.

[Azrayen]

But I'm asking for the way how the Mirage knows how to release the bomb.

I must say I don't understand what is your issue then...

Any way looks good to me: coordinates over radio, visual guidance ("locate the village... ok... north of it a road with a fork... ok... 2 compounds west of the road, by the bridge... ok... the target is the compound nearer from the road... OK") ...

[QuiGon]

I also don't understand your issue. You said you've already done that with a friend. How have you done that if there's an issue?

[domini99]

A-10's fly low, but it isn't really an issue.

But when the Mirage is flying at 30k+ feet, how is the Mirage gonna drop the bomb close enough to the target I'll be lasing?

 

I suppose CCRP using a coordinate in the INS, but I wanted to know sure if this was the case as I don't really know how the Mirage can drop bombs

[QuiGon]

A-10's fly low, but it isn't really an issue.

But when the Mirage is flying at 30k+ feet, how is the Mirage gonna drop the bomb close enough to the target I'll be lasing?

 

I suppose CCRP using a coordinate in the INS, but I wanted to know sure if this was the case as I don't really know how the Mirage can drop bombs

 

Yes, the Mirage is using INS coords for CCRP, just like the A-10 without TGP (and maybe even with TGP if the TGP just generates coords for the INS?).

 

Height doesn't make a difference here.

Edited November 17, 2015 by QuiGon

[domini99]

Yes, the Mirage is using INS coords for CCRP, just like the A-10 without TGP (and maybe even with TGP if the TGP just generates coords for the INS?).

 

Height doesn't make a difference here.

Okay cool.

This is what I wanted to know.

I'm sorry if I was a bit too confusing.

[QuiGon]

Okay cool.

This is what I wanted to know.

I'm sorry if I was a bit too confusing.

 

No problem. I'm glad we could work this out :)

Edited November 17, 2015 by QuiGon

[jojo]

The easiest way:

- the laser aircraft gives Lat/ Long coordinates to Mirage bomber

- Mirage bomber enter target coordinates into INS so he can finally see its position in the HUD.

- Mirage performs bomb run has he would with Mk-82 and call "bombs away" so the lasing aircraft knows when to lase.

 

The Mirage 2000C don't allow to do high altitude level delivery. It will have to be in dive, so early lasing won't be a problem...

[QuiGon]

The Mirage 2000C don't allow to do high altitude level delivery. It will have to be in dive, so early lasing won't be a problem...

 

No level bombing in the Mirage?

[jojo]

Not the C...

 

It's funny how much people keep talking about bombing with Mirage 2000 C. Its main mission is air defense !

 

PS: Eventually you will have low level bombing with high drag bombs...

[QuiGon]

I don't really understand how this is technically working?

 

Bombing in level flight at low altitudes is eventually possible? Up to which height? What prevents me from doing that at higher altitudes?

[shagrat]

Not the C...

 

It's funny how much people keep talking about bombing with Mirage 2000 C. Its main mission is air defense !

 

PS: Eventually you will have low level bombing with high drag bombs...

Yeah, that will be the people who want a fast multirole jet for realistic combat missions...last Air kills I remember were two Iraqi Helis shot down by an A-10...?

 

Granted, the Mirage has been designed as an interceptor/CAP fighter, but in today's mission profiles it can carry bombs, so they use it to bomb stuff...

And I want, too! :D

[dartuil]

I dont care bombing if I want bomb i use A-10.

i want an fighter interceptor in M2000.

[Corrigan]

For me, how well done the module is (in terms of realism and other things) is much more important than the capabilities of the aircraft.

[domini99]

For me, how well done the module is (in terms of realism and other things) is much more important than the capabilities of the aircraft.

True dat.

Gotta get the max realism.