cichlidfan Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) C:\Games\DCS World\Mods\aircrafts\Uh-1H\Doc\DCS UH-1H Flight Manual_EN.pdf :huh: We said, "complete". Edited August 19, 2014 by cichlidfan ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 He said, "complete". I would be already happy if I had an incomplete Mi-8 manual .... Anyhow, regarding the Huey manual - I am not aware that it is really incomplete? The Huey as such has two or three issues - stuff that is either not (correctly) modelled or just plain lacking, ok, but the manual itself represents what actually IS implemented in the aircraft fairly well, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Page 68. Overhead Console. There are 24 knobs and switches on that set of panels for which the manual contains nothing but one image and this text. The location of the controls and circuit breakers installed in the overhead console is depicted in Figure 5.5. Edited August 19, 2014 by cichlidfan ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 Page 68. Overhead Console. There are 24 knobs and switches on that set of panels for which the manual contains nothing but one image and this text. *sigh* allright. But just stop it - this is not good for my mood ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjacobsen Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 +1 Very frustrating indeed... While most of us knew that we where buying a Beta version, the time needed to see progress is simply not acceptable without further feedback from Belsimtek. Problem is that Belsimtek doesn´t seem to read into this forum, so our pleas seems to be in vain. Don´t get me wrong - all Belsims product are very promising and they surely know how to develope aircraft and helo's for DCS, it´s just the nagging feeling of standing back with a half baked bread. FinnJ i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX 4070 12GB, 1 x 1 TB SSD, 2 x 2TB SSD2 TB, 1 x 2 TBHDD 7200 RPM, Win10 Home 64bit, Meta Quest 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoBlue Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Yes it's about time we get a full manual for the UH-1 & Mi-8....this is not good for Belsimtek's customer relations at all....in the long run, they'll pay for it later! i7 8700k@4.7, 1080ti, DDR4 32GB, 2x SSD , HD 2TB, W10, ASUS 27", TrackIr5, TMWH, X-56, GProR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 +1 FWIW Last time I'm buying a beta Module of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjacobsen Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 +1 FWIW Last time I'm buying a beta Module of anything. I have no problem with buying Beta's, but at least after having paid, we must expect some kind of progress. With IL-2 BOS we get weekly updates, or at least words when there won´t be an update that week. FinnJ i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX 4070 12GB, 1 x 1 TB SSD, 2 x 2TB SSD2 TB, 1 x 2 TBHDD 7200 RPM, Win10 Home 64bit, Meta Quest 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedexent Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 In this business, I'm pretty sure that the market is too small to support the number of developers on the project that would give us the development rate that we'd like and the price point we'd like. That said - I would love a manual and a fully fleshed out Mi-8 ( ... and a MiG-21 ... and a Hawk ... and definitely an L-39 ...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrgud Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 In this business, I'm pretty sure that the market is too small to support the number of developers on the project that would give us the development rate that we'd like and the price point we'd like. That said - I would love a manual and a fully fleshed out Mi-8 ( ... and a MiG-21 ... and a Hawk ... and definitely an L-39 ...). I agree with you completely. But I think that in the case of Mi-8, less work had to be done to finish the manual than to create whole new module (the Sabre). Someone said it right: the completition of the manual must not depend on only one man (EvilBivol). If he can't finish it, someone should say what is the problem and take over that task to him self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjacobsen Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The problem is not when a beta project is put on hold, or developement gets to a crawl. The problem is when people have paid for a beta version, then I find that steady progress must be expected. Note that I did not say fast progress, but a beta that seemingly hasn´t been touched for month by the developers is not Ok ! FinnJ i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX 4070 12GB, 1 x 1 TB SSD, 2 x 2TB SSD2 TB, 1 x 2 TBHDD 7200 RPM, Win10 Home 64bit, Meta Quest 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlebakus Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Manual for Mi-8 again. Everytime this thread lights up, I am more and more angry. Even saying it is beta doesnt apogise them. As far as I remember it was and still is the most expensive module. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Manual for Mi-8 again. Everytime this thread lights up, I am more and more angry. Even saying it is beta doesnt apogise them. As far as I remember it was and still is the most expensive module. A-10 was released at $59.99 (in beta). EDIT: In 2010 dollars. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearDark Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Manual for Mi-8 again. Everytime this thread lights up, I am more and more angry. Even saying it is beta doesnt apogise them. As far as I remember it was and still is the most expensive module. I'm in the same boat as you. I'm simply outraged by the total disrespect. I'm not one of these to go and say "BUT I SPENT MONEY I DESERVE IT ALL NOW", but seeing module after module being released without completing these which are out is completely unprofessional. And not even the "This is still a beta" excuse holds any water any more. Every day that goes by I get more irritated. Even to the point of wanting a refund. Again, the modules are wonderful and exceed my wildest expectations in terms of quality and fidelity, but releasing a module and then abandoning it is unacceptable. It didn't happen ONCE, it happened 3 times already. Shame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwd2 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 You know, you have Pre-Purchase the Mi-8MTV2 ... and have access to the beta and to the finale version at the end. I agree, not to have a manual (for all stuff) is not nice - but to fly this bird before it is released...worth it! Yes Huey is out of the beta and the manual is not completed! Playing: F-16C Intel i7-13700KF, 64GB DDR5 @5600MHz, RTX 4080 ZOTAC Trinity, WIN 11 64Bit Prof. Squadron "Serious Uglies" / Discord-Server: https://discord.gg/2WccwBh Ghost0815 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlebakus Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Well, it was released. I havent prepurchased anything. I seems pretty much like released module to me. Edited August 20, 2014 by Chlebakus [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 What atm is going through my mind is, it does not help if we discuss ourselfs into rage here. I mean no, so far this thread is imho very mature and decent, but it doesn't really help if one states his disappointment and someone else agrees and adds his own disappointment to it. Then a third, fourth and fifth chime in as well ... What imo is needed is, that this thread is brought to the attention of BST. Yes, they should be aware of it, but ... heck, hundreds of new posts in dozens of new threads appear every day. And we can't expect that BST is present in this thread every day when exactly the lack of their presence is one of our main concerns. So my question is, what can we do - effectively - to make them aware that something is boiling here? Perhaps a mod can give them a pointer? Or wasn't there some sort of "Community Manager"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearDark Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 What atm is going through my mind is, it does not help if we discuss ourselfs into rage here. I mean no, so far this thread is imho very mature and decent, but it doesn't really help if one states his disappointment and someone else agrees and adds his own disappointment to it. Then a third, fourth and fifth chime in as well ... What imo is needed is, that this thread is brought to the attention of BST. Yes, they should be aware of it, but ... heck, hundreds of new posts in dozens of new threads appear every day. And we can't expect that BST is present in this thread every day when exactly the lack of their presence is one of our main concerns. So my question is, what can we do - effectively - to make them aware that something is boiling here? Perhaps a mod can give them a pointer? Or wasn't there some sort of "Community Manager"? I disagree. It's very helpful to vent and express our opinions as disappointed customers. We are flight simmers, regarded as one of the most mature group of "communities" online. Especially the DCS/ED one. To get us this pissed off requires something very bald, and this is exactly what's happening. I think BST are well aware of this issue. As a software developer myself, I can firmly say that documentation is the most horrible part of shipping any product. It's tedious, boring, prone to billion of small errors and you'll always miss something. The real issue here is that ED set a standard. Look at all of ED's "beta" products, they all shipped with manuals, not complete, not fully finished, but enough work was put into it so you could make good use of it. As much as I want more modules to play around with, I also want those modules to be with fully developed, some things will never get implemented due to engine/framework restriction, and you'll never hear my complain about these things. But a manual which is simply a textual document with some screenshots has no technical restriction, it could be either lack of resources to complete, or just intentionally ignored by BST, neither of these 2 options are acceptable at this stage IMO. What we can do is shut our wallets until we're happy with how BST works and treats its customers. We are a loyal bunch, but it gives noone the right to disrespect us in this kind of way. My 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1.JaVA_Platypus Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Yes it's about time we get a full manual for the UH-1 & Mi-8....this is not good for Belsimtek's customer relations at all....in the long run, they'll pay for it later! There is a quickstart guide and a full flight manual for the UH-1h in the DCS\mods\aircrafts\Uh-1H\Doc folder. It is pretty extensive! Would love a manual like that for the Mi8 as well! Happy Flying! :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derelor Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 BST certainly knows about this, but I will try to bring it to their attention. What else besides p. 68 (http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2151528&postcount=78) is missing in the current "unfinished" UH-1H Flight Manual? Can someone help me assemble a list with missing items? 1338 - beyond leet ED Forum rules EN|DE|RU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 So my question is, what can we do - effectively - to make them aware that something is boiling here? Perhaps a mod can give them a pointer? Or wasn't there some sort of "Community Manager"? FWIW, I have received a PM on this subject from derelor (ED Tester) asking me to identify other areas (besides page 68) which are incomplete in the Huey manual so that he can bring it to the attention of the Project Manager at Belsimtek. I told him that he needs to post that message as a thread for the community to respond to. That doesn't help with the Mi-8 and it also doesn't indicate an interest on the part of Belsimtek. EDIT: *sniped* ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 It's very helpful to vent and express our opinions as disappointed customers. Yes, I am totaly with you here. But look at this thread - many have expressed their opinion here already and made clear what they think about the situation. The position of "us, the customers" is pretty clear. But instead of adding the same opinion again and again to this thread, we should probably try to do something more ... productive or proactive - like for example ... BST certainly knows about this, but I will try to bring it to their attention. (& thank you for that, Derelor!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagrum Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 What else besides p. 68 (http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2151528&postcount=78) is missing in the current "unfinished" UH-1H Flight Manual? Can someone help me assemble a list with missing items? FWIW, I have received a PM on this subject from derelor (ED Tester) asking me to identify other areas (besides page 68) which are incomplete in the Huey manual so that he can bring it to the attention of the Project Manager at Belsimtek. I told him that he needs to post that message as a thread for the community to respond to. Huey Manual thread - please use this: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2152540#post2152540 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjacobsen Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Flagrum is right, simply "whining" here makes no difference.... Thats why I´m glad to see derelor chime in here - so thx for that :) FinnJ i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz, 32GB RAM, RTX 4070 12GB, 1 x 1 TB SSD, 2 x 2TB SSD2 TB, 1 x 2 TBHDD 7200 RPM, Win10 Home 64bit, Meta Quest 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audax Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Flagrum is right, simply "whining" here makes no difference.... But not whining doesn't help either, so I will continue. I like the Mi-8MTV2. Give me a manual to study! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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