Can you program your "pitbull" range for the AIM-120?

[GGTharos]

Does anyone know if there exists a SARH missile which could be launched without trigging a missile launch warning on your target's RWR?

 

Depends on the radar, missile, rwr, and rwr programming philosophy:

If you have a radar that is LPI and can also illuminate the target in an LPI way, vs an old RWR then there is a possibility that an indication will not be triggered. There is no reason to make such an assumption though.

 

There are missiles that will be guided in mid-course by a different search and track radar, and an illuminator during the final phase - in this case a warning may come later.

 

However, in reality an air force may choose not to provide a missile launch warning. Why?

 

In the game, we have a luxury: We get an RWR warning when the offender is STT and pulls the trigger. In reality, an RWR may not be capable of telling when the missile is launched, so: It may provide a launch warning if STT + strong enough signal, or just if STT (so, there might not be a missile launch), or it may not provide a launch warning at all. Whether this warning is provided or not is a philosophical choice made by a given air force.

 

My guess is that it does not exist. Hence the next question: what is the technical limitation which prevent this "upgrade?"

 

The fact that if you don't illuminate the target the missile can't track it?

[Grigs]

In the game, we have a luxury: We get an RWR warning when the offender is STT and pulls the trigger. In reality, an RWR may not be capable of telling when the missile is launched, so: It may provide a launch warning if STT + strong enough signal, or just if STT (so, there might not be a missile launch), or it may not provide a launch warning at all. Whether this warning is provided or not is a philosophical choice made by a given air force.

Yeah actually I should have written that differently. I was aware of how the RWR reacts to our opponent's STT and signal strength. Actually I was rather wondering why we cannot launch and guide a SARH exclusively in TWS radar mode.

 

I am sorry guys, I am quiet tired and was not really clear minded when I wrote earlier hehe. Of course guiding a SARH in TWS is not possible because it requires more energy from the radar to focus on the target (hence the STT mode). And to the question what can we do to fix this..I think part of the answer is provided by AESA radars. At least that would be my analysis right now. I will just click "submit reply" and go to bed :D

 

Thanks for your answer anyway ,)

[GGTharos]

TWS will give you illumination and updates every 2 sec in the fastest of modes...maybe every 1 sec.

 

STT gives you illumination and updates 600 times a second assuming a pulse radar (for CW radar, obviously this is all continuous :D )

 

So sure, you could direct that missile with TWS to a point where you'd go STT (you could stay TWS, but that target better not maneuver... the gap between when the missile can see a flash of the target is too much, and this also makes countermeasures more effective). Such systems exist, but not on aircraft AFAIK, with the possible exception of the MiG-31.

 

In any case, why does anyone need to 'fix' this? ARH missiles are still completely superior.

[TAW_Blaze]

Some servers run some missions with 80s loadouts, but not very often. They are fun though, SARH duels are always thrilling.

[GGTharos]

They're controlled the same way - from your HOTAS.

 

Some players have an affinity for simulating historical engagements, factual and fictional alike, from the days before active seekers. Personally, I'd love the added challenge of controlling Sparrows and Sidewinders with the old school panel in place of the MFCD.

[Maximus_Lazarus]

I must be tripping or something, but it seems that the "go active" point is way less than 10 nm SOMETIMES.

 

If it were always 10 nm when missile goes active, nobody would make any kills with 120c .

 

I once shot a 120 , at a target quite far away. Time to pitbull at launch was a staggering 33 seconds.

 

Yet, when it DID go active, enemy had no time to react and died.

 

So, what i am saying is, that after 33 seconds of flight, the distance between my slammer and target would still be 10 nm, enemy could have VERY easily defeated the missile.

[TAW_Blaze]

MPRF range is 8nm. TTA/TTI is just an estimation based on the situation at the moment of launch. It doesn't account for maneuvers post launch. DLZ is also an estimation, a very broken one at that currently ingame.

[blkspade]

MPRF range is 8nm. TTA/TTI is just an estimation based on the situation at the moment of launch. It doesn't account for maneuvers post launch. DLZ is also an estimation' date=' a very broken one at that currently ingame.[/quote']

 

This is very much true. I frequently find myself getting Aim-7 kills 3-5 seconds after the TTI counter has expired. This then leads to a follow up shot in the split second that the missile hits, which then becomes a wasted missile.

[71st_Mastiff]

This is very much true. I frequently find myself getting Aim-7 kills 3-5 seconds after the TTI counter has expired. This then leads to a follow up shot in the split second that the missile hits, which then becomes a wasted missile.

 

yes this!! I practice radar hunting in night missions, makes it easier for me to concentrate on radar and using it.

 

I fine myself shooting another missile when I didn't need to, because of the counter.

[TAW_Blaze]

This is very much true. I frequently find myself getting Aim-7 kills 3-5 seconds after the TTI counter has expired. This then leads to a follow up shot in the split second that the missile hits, which then becomes a wasted missile.

 

Oh yes, in some cases I've had missiles hit the target with a 10 second delay if not more. Very difficult to judge if you need to fire another one.

[Maximus_Lazarus]

Man, it would be pretty OP if you could actually program the time to active time

 

Or better yet, never let it go active at all ! Probably not possible in TWS because crappy update time though.

 

OR , be able to choose the time to active time while the missile is IN FLIGHT :pilotfly:

 

Nobody would ever dare to go even near an F15 then though

[*Rage*]

Nobody would ever dare to go even near an F15 then though

 

Why?

[Maximus_Lazarus]

Because F15 would be

[TAW_Blaze]

It wouldn't matter as much as you think. BVR is not really about defending launches that you spotted. If you show me a VSD rundown of what's going on I can easily pinpoint where he's most likely going to fire. Although whether he fired or not doesn't matter at that point, if he didn't fire there but fired from a different position it'll have worse parameters and I might even just outright ignore it because it has close to zero pk.

[Maximus_Lazarus]

Yeah well, i still very much like to know when a missile has found me , and get an idea how far it is away from me.

 

Without pitbull and ability to track in TWS, amraams would become almost like ET's with much more range.

 

2 stronk i say.

 

2 STRONK !!

Edited June 17, 2014 by Maximus_Lazarus

[GGTharos]

Now you're making stuff up.

 

Without pitbull and ability to track in TWS, amraams would become almost like ET's with much more range.

[Bushmanni]

Radar is active sensor unless in HOJ mode and hence it will trip RWR. Maybe it could be possible to make the missile home in the enemy radar itself but there's probably some technical issue why it's not done. Other thing would be putting AIM-9X block II sensor (can lock to the target after launch and has similar range as the AMRAAM radar) in the AMRAAM and you would get the ultimate ninja missile. Well I don't know if it would work like that actually but it would definitely be pretty nasty thing if it would, especially when launched using datalink.

[TAW_Blaze]

Without pitbull and ability to track in TWS, amraams would become almost like ET's with much more range.

 

Without pitbull the AMRAAM probably won't even hit the side of a barn.

[GGTharos]

It will hit the side of the barn thanks to the new GPS module. I don't know about hitting a moving aircraft though :)

[TAW_Blaze]

Making an ARH not use it's own radar kinda defeats the purpose though. :D

[GGTharos]

Don't need it for the barn. :)

 

Moving aircraft is a different story!

[Maximus_Lazarus]

Making an ARH not use it's own radar kinda defeats the purpose though. :D

 

Not true , it should only go active when plane radar loses target, OR when pilot chooses it to go active (say he has to defend or run)

 

Really it would be OP

[Frostie]

Not true , it should only go active when plane radar loses target, OR when pilot chooses it to go active (say he has to defend or run)

 

Really it would be OP

TWS is not real time, your wishes and dreams in reality would probably end up as a woeful miss/waste.

[lunaticfringe]

There is a very specific reason that an ARH missile requires going active (unless the shooter has the target in STT) that you apparently don't know, Maximus. And frankly, it's not worth the time to explain it to you.

 

So please continue blabbing on and on- I'm getting a really good laugh out of it.

[GGTharos]

You're making stuff up again.

 

The missile goes through several stages of search and track, all of which take time. It's not like the simple little thing we have in-game.

 

Once it's tracking, it has to perform target sorting and countermeasure rejection, which is helped by the m-link if the launcher is still tracking.

 

All of this stuff is a pretty involved process and it requires time - and we're just scratching the surface here.

 

There's a reason why these missiles go active when they do, and if you don't get why, at least get the point that they're this way for pretty good reasons.

 

Not true , it should only go active when plane radar loses target, OR when pilot chooses it to go active (say he has to defend or run)