Insanatrix Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Seriously the level of modelling and detail on this thing is great. Some things could use some work, like damage effects and graphic effects as well as terrain, Here's hoping EDGE comes out soon. Most of that though is global and not module related. It's honestly just a real joy to fly and it brings me back to why I love flight simulators in the first place.
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted June 11, 2014 Posted June 11, 2014 Very true, and the main reason I use DCS for - the pleasure of feeling "almost" like being there! Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
Der_Fred Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 .."almost"... .. is the word. Nothing like simultaneously pulling hard on the elevator and kicking hard rudder (no aerolons) for a quick snap ? :)
9.JG27 DavidRed Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 .. is the word. Nothing like simultaneously pulling hard on the elevator and kicking hard rudder (no aerolons) for a quick snap ? :) so you think ailerons would be necessary to enter a snap roll in a real plane?
KLR Rico Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 +1, I bought ARMA 3 and wanted to like it, since my friends all play it and say how fun & realistic the helicopters are. I flew for less than 10 minutes and haven't touched it since. DCS has definitely spoiled me, arcade flight models just make part of me die. i5-4670K@4.5GHz / 16 GB RAM / SSD / GTX1080 Rift CV1 / G-seat / modded FFB HOTAS
Sceptre Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 +1, I bought ARMA 3 and wanted to like it, since my friends all play it and say how fun & realistic the helicopters are. I flew for less than 10 minutes and haven't touched it since. DCS has definitely spoiled me, arcade flight models just make part of me die. Agree. Arma 3 is fun, but anyone saying the flight model and plane weapons are realistic would be sorely mistaken. Still, the planes aren't designed to be realistic. They are designed to support the ground troops in the game, which they do. But what annoys me is when fanboys cry and say that because they can fly a huey in DayZ, they think they should be a real helicopter pilot. :doh: And regarding the OP, I completely agree. I have flown ED's simulators for 6 or 7 years now and there's nothing quite like it. RTX 2070 8GB | 32GB DDR4 2666 RAM | AMD Ryzen 5 3600 4.2Ghz | Asrock X570 | CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle | TM MFDs | TrackIR 5
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 And regarding the OP, I completely agree. I have flown ED's simulators for 6 or 7 years now and there's nothing quite like it. True in as far as the modeled aircraft models go, but, you really have to give a try to IL2 BOS! I did, and that made me also a fan of ROF, which I had been told, for a long time, was wonderful! Don't get me wrong - I bought and will buy most of the DCS modules if I can, if not for any other purpose at least to support this great project, and it's DCS I start for a ride in the P51d when I want to feel almost like when I was at Sintra Airbase ( LPST ) flying for real ( gliders only! but still, for real :-) ), but IL2 BOS also has superb flight dynamics and overall immersion for the historical time it represents. Curious to think that the two best EVER flight simulation platforms ever developed ( IMO ) for a PC are programmed by East European ( mostly russian ? ) teams. Just like in many other areas involving exact sciences like mathematics, physics modeling, and being able to do wonders even with limited resources ( DCS and IL2 run in my rig like FSX or XP10 were never able to run, even with all of the tweaks! ) the eastern european programmers are uinique! Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
Sceptre Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 True in as far as the modeled aircraft models go, but, you really have to give a try to IL2 BOS! I did, and that made me also a fan of ROF, which I had been told, for a long time, was wonderful! Don't get me wrong - I bought and will buy most of the DCS modules if I can, if not for any other purpose at least to support this great project, and it's DCS I start for a ride in the P51d when I want to feel almost like when I was at Sintra Airbase ( LPST ) flying for real ( gliders only! but still, for real :-) ), but IL2 BOS also has superb flight dynamics and overall immersion for the historical time it represents. Curious to think that the two best EVER flight simulation platforms ever developed ( IMO ) for a PC are programmed by East European ( mostly russian ? ) teams. Just like in many other areas involving exact sciences like mathematics, physics modeling, and being able to do wonders even with limited resources ( DCS and IL2 run in my rig like FSX or XP10 were never able to run, even with all of the tweaks! ) the eastern european programmers are uinique! I'm also a long time IL-2 fan (forgotten battles, Pacific Fighters, 1946) but I haven't tried BoS yet. I was planning on waiting until the full release of the game. RTX 2070 8GB | 32GB DDR4 2666 RAM | AMD Ryzen 5 3600 4.2Ghz | Asrock X570 | CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle | TM MFDs | TrackIR 5
Der_Fred Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 so you think ailerons would be necessary to enter a snap roll in a real plane? Finally, on this forum somebody agrees with me... thank you DavidRed :)
Shahdoh Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 For a proper snap roll, Ailerons are NOT used. A snap roll is caused be 1 wing stalling out while the other has lift, thereby rolling the aircraft. Thus, only elevator and rudder are used at the appropriate airspeed for that aircraft to induce that stalled wing.
Der_Fred Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 For a proper snap roll, Ailerons are NOT used. A snap roll is caused be 1 wing stalling out while the other has lift, thereby rolling the aircraft. Thus, only elevator and rudder are used at the appropriate airspeed for that aircraft to induce that stalled wing. Yessir.. I know that, did it in my training, but when I mentioned this P51 modelling flaw, I was 'shot down in flames'.
Shahdoh Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 Ah hehehe, ok, wasn't sure, next time someone wants to argue the point, maybe they will believe Kirby, point them to this link... http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/physics/how-to-snap-roll-a-stunt-plane
Der_Fred Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 There is a P51 doccy (on my DVD's here somewhere) where the pilot explicity mentions how he executed the snap rolls to escape Me109s.. (no aerolons applied :-) )as plain as daylight.
Shahdoh Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 Interesting, cause all reference material I have seen on the Mustang, is that its not rated for snap rolls, horizontal stab not strong enough. Guess when they are "new" and in a combat situation, you do what you must, but is currently not advised to do so in current Mustangs.
Der_Fred Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 Ah hehehe, ok, wasn't sure, next time someone wants to argue the point, maybe they will believe Kirby, point them to this link... It's a very fast 'circular' motion wrt to stick and rudder. You simultaneously pull stick and kick rudder hard. This essentially stalls the aircraft, slowing it down and rolling it in the direction of rudder application. You can hold it there for a while if you like, but be careful not to go into a flat spin.. But usually after the first application you 'unstall' the aircraft in a classic stall recovery = Stick forward and opposite rudder. The 'unstall' is done as fast as the induced stall (circular stick and rudder motion).. and you're good to go in whatever direction you've chosen to recover in. Make sure you're looking ahead when you do this.. for orientation stabilisation. :-)
Der_Fred Posted June 15, 2014 Posted June 15, 2014 Interesting, cause all reference material I have seen on the Mustang, is that its not rated for snap rolls, horizontal stab not strong enough I suppose it would depend on stress factors (speed)... so I'd imagine this would only be executed at lower speeds, otherwise I'm sure the wings would fall off :-)
lesnyborsuk Posted June 16, 2014 Posted June 16, 2014 Interesting, cause all reference material I have seen on the Mustang, is that its not rated for snap rolls, horizontal stab not strong enough Well, 'not rated' doesn't need to mean that it will not do it... especially over occupied Europe with some bandits on 6 :music_whistling: I am curious - why do you guys think DCS version of P51 has wrong implementation of snap rolls? I remember that I have been doing them with no ailerons help - just elevator and rudder. And AFAIR they are very fun at 100 ft ... if you're not hitting ground just afterwards ;) I remember when sex was safe and flying was dangerous.
Der_Fred Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I am curious - why do you guys think DCS version of P51 has wrong implementation of snap rolls You have an interesting point.... 'implementation of snap rolls'. From my POV, I've tried to 'snap it' (in the pure sense) either left or right, with power or without power on the Poti free flight map. The result was.. for an aircraft very sensitive to G stalling, was that it got stuck there.. hanna... hann.ering between max rudder and elevator application actions when rudder and elevator were applied simultaneously (=simultaneous a/c reaction) , wobbling back and forth. After 2 or 3 seconds... 'Ah yes !!!.. I'm going to now do this' ??? It's a bit late for that ...said Jimmy Carr :-) It has nothing to do with propwash or engine torque as I had the same reaction with full and idle power. As far as I'm concerned this IS a modelling flaw and hope it will be resolved for both the FW and the P51 as it is a significant part of one's flying repertoire.. :-)
Der_Fred Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 I'll do another test tomorrow and post the track - must set up my rig again. :-)
Der_Fred Posted June 18, 2014 Posted June 18, 2014 Here's the track.. 2x attempts to snap to the right under power... 1x attempt after cutting the power... eventually draaagggs itself over. It's not much better rolling left, although it does get there in a similar manner as the right roll without power. I actually think the engine moment/torque/propwash-vs-control surface effects ratio is not right.snappy.trk
Anatoli-Kagari9 Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 And... according to info ( Wikipedia in this case ) it should really snap-roll, even involuntarily sometimes: "Despite these modifications, the P-51Bs and P-51Cs, and the newer P-51Ds and P-51Ks, experienced low-speed handling problems that could result in an involuntary "snap-roll" under certain conditions of air speed, angle of attack, gross weight, and center of gravity. Several crash reports tell of P-51Bs and P-51Cs crashing because horizontal stabilizers were torn off during maneuvering. As a result of these problems, a modification kit consisting of a dorsal fin was manufactured. One report stated: "Unless a dorsal fin is installed on the P-51B, P-51C and P-51D airplanes, a snap roll may result when attempting a slow roll. The horizontal stabilizer will not withstand the effects of a snap roll. To prevent recurrence, the stabilizer should be reinforced in accordance with T.O. 01-60J-18 dated 8 April 1944 and a dorsal fin should be installed. Dorsal fin kits are being made available to overseas activities" Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...
Der_Fred Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Several crash reports tell of P-51Bs and P-51Cs crashing because horizontal stabilizers were torn off during maneuvering This, if I remember correctly, sadly was the cause of the death of Jimmy Leeward, in Galloping Ghost, at Reno a few years back.
ShuRugal Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 This, if I remember correctly, sadly was the cause of the death of Jimmy Leeward, in Galloping Ghost, at Reno a few years back. wasn't it a mechanical failure on the trim tab? drove the elevator to full-up?
Der_Fred Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Sorry .. yes you're right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Reno_Air_Races_crash In that link is an interesting one on Bob Hannah on the forces on losing a trim tab ??? Heavy stuff !!
randomnine Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 The P-51D in DCS appears to come with that dorsal fin kit (the one designed to prevent snap roll). Image here shows P-51D with and without dorsal fin.
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