electrical caging button-does it do anything?

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

hey guys!today i started to use the A4 gunsight, and to me it seems, that the electrical caging button doesnt do anything...i only seem to have to switch the mechanical caging lever and thats it....

[Foul Ole Ron]

hey guys!today i started to use the A4 gunsight, and to me it seems, that the electrical caging button doesnt do anything...i only seem to have to switch the mechanical caging lever and thats it....

 

Check your control mapping. In the quick start manual it says to hit Tab to uncage the electrical sight and I mapped this to my hotas. But then in the game it was doing anything. When I checked the control mapping this function actually didn't have anything mapped to it. You're better off not using Tab too as that's MP chat. Once I'd mapped the function and updated my hotas it started to work as expected i.e. once you hold it down it freezes in the sight and then you release once you get a solid radar lock on the target in front of you.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

the thing is, it works just as well without using it, with just uncaging the mechanical lever.

[Torashuu]

The mechanical & Electrical caging both have the same effect, but the usage is different. This has to do, as I understand it, with the fact that extended uncaging times will induce drift in the gyros used for the gunsight. Especially during hard manouvers. So the procedure is that if you are about to enter a fight, you uncage mechanically, but hold down the electrical cage switch to keep the gunsight caged. As you then manouver in a position for a shot you will use the caged gunsight to lock your radar, release electrical cage, aim & take your shot.

 

As to why just the electrical caging with a toggle isn't enough, that has to do with power failure redundancies I would guess.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Torashuu

[BIGNEWY]

Hi guys, this has been reported internally.

[Torashuu]

As apparently I'm missing something, what is the supposed functional difference between mechanical & electrical caging?

[Druid_]

Mechanically caging is permanent, electrical caging forces the gyro to stabilise. I guess you could manually cage then uncage it, but when pulling say 6G onto the target it would be much better to do so electrically via a button on the throttle grip.

 

First you mechanically uncage it then prior to an attack the sight should be electrically caged to stabilise the sight, limiting gyro deflection as the result of any manoeuvring on initial approach to the target.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Druid_
sp

[Furia]

The A-4 sight gyros are very sensitive and fragile to acceleration and for this reason the sight comes with 2 different Cage systems.

The sight must be Mechanically CAGED all times except when in combat.

So when you enter an AIR TO AIR GUNS combat situation, follow the next steps:

Gun-Missile Switch in GUN

UNCAGE the mechanical sight.

The sigh is now UNCAGED that is the sight gyros are free to move.

 

Now you need to enter the target wingspan on the sight.

 

The moment you have the enemy target in front of you at the appropiate radar range, the radar target red light will go On telling you it has a valid target locked and that the radar is feeding range distance to the A-4 Sight.

 

When you are approaching a firing solution and in order to reset the sight gyros accumulated drift errors before firing, press the ELECTRICAL CAGE. What you are doing is a temporary gyro "reset" while you keep the button pressed.

Keep it pressed while you feel you are tracking the target on a stable condition and THEN RELEASE the ELECTRICAL CAGE button.

The sight now is UNCAGED, has no drift errors, has the target wingspawn, knows the taget distance and knows your aircraft accelearion forces. Move the piper over the target and fire. You cannot miss. :thumbup:

The sight is very effective and the USAF pilots were able to score deflection hits with it at the maximum weapon range.

 

Underastand this, The reason for the ELECTRICAL CAGE is to provide a fast temporary SIGHT CAGE just before firing and without the pilot having to move his hand out of the throttle or stick to activate the Mechanical CAGE.

This way when he is tracking the target and using the ELECTRICAL CAGE system, he can temporary CAGE the gyros and thus eliminate previous drift that may have been caused by combat maneuvering to get into the firing possition.

 

Hope this explains the system a bit better :joystick:

Edited July 28, 2014 by Furia

[IvanK]

it is my understanding that Electrical caging increase sight range current thereby effectively reducing the target range in terms of sight stiffness.

So to the pilot the reticle moves to a min range solution. This provides a nice stiff sight for the pilot to use as a long range aiming reference.

 

You can also blip the Elec cage button this will cause the reticle to move along "The line" that depicts the fighters plane of motion. Its on this line that you need to establish the fighters and the targets motion as range reduces.... then the pipper will settle on the target.... especially when firing pegged without a radar lock. This was a standard technique of many fighters of this era.

Edited July 28, 2014 by IvanK

[Druid_]

it is my understanding that Electrical caging increase sight range current thereby effectively reducing the target range in terms of sight stiffness.

Any chance of a reference on this? I can find nothing in our documentation to support this. Range is detected via the radar. You can alter the range manually via the selector. The electrical caging switch does nothing to extend this range as far as I know.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

The A-4 sight gyros are very sensitive and fragile to acceleration and for this reason the sight comes with 2 different Cage systems.

The sight must be Mechanically CAGED all times except when in combat.

So when you enter an AIR TO AIR GUNS combat situation, follow the next steps:

Gun-Missile Switch in GUN

UNCAGE the mechanical sight.

The sigh is now UNCAGED that is the sight gyros are free to move.

 

Now you need to enter the target wingspan on the sight.

 

The moment you have the enemy target in front of you at the appropiate radar range, the radar target red light will go On telling you it has a valid target locked and that the radar is feeding range distance to the A-4 Sight.

 

When you are approaching a firing solution and in order to reset the sight gyros accumulated drift errors before firing, press the ELECTRICAL CAGE. What you are doing is a temporary gyro "reset" while you keep the button pressed.

Keep it pressed while you feel you are tracking the target on a stable condition and THEN RELEASE the ELECTRICAL CAGE button.

The sight now is UNCAGED, has no drift errors, has the target wingspawn, knows the taget distance and knows your aircraft accelearion forces. Move the piper over the target and fire. You cannot miss. :thumbup:

The sight is very effective and the USAF pilots were able to score deflection hits with it at the maximum weapon range.

 

Underastand this, The reason for the ELECTRICAL CAGE is to provide a fast temporary SIGHT CAGE just before firing and without the pilot having to move his hand out of the throttle or stick to activate the Mechanical CAGE.

This way when he is tracking the target and using the ELECTRICAL CAGE system, he can temporary CAGE the gyros and thus eliminate previous drift that may have been caused by combat maneuvering to get into the firing possition.

 

Hope this explains the system a bit better :joystick:

 

yes very well explained!:thumbup:

but still, i do not feel any difference with either electrical caging or not...same precision for me so far.

[IvanK]

Any chance of a reference on this? I can find nothing in our documentation to support this. Range is detected via the radar. You can alter the range manually via the selector. The electrical caging switch does nothing to extend this range as far as I know.

 

I am basing this on using a very similar sight in the Mirage III and being taught pegged (Non radar locked) sight handling techniques from old and bold Sabre pilots.

 

With Radar locked, range and sight current is indeed controlled by radar range and turn rate. Its current to the sight deflection coils that actually controls reticle movement. So the radar generates a signal to vary current to the deflection coils the lesser the range the more current.

 

However if not locked then Sight sensitivity current (range in other words .... that is the strength of the current that flows through the internal sight elevation deflection coils that results in reticle movement) is controlled varied by Default range "sight idle" ( (2400ft in the A4 from CA27/32 Manual) or Elec cage range (which I think is equivalent to 600ft range by reading in between the lines). Manual cage drives to 600ft equiv range so if the sight ends up in the same position using Elec cage you can verify this.

 

Then of course if using Stadimetric range by throttle twist grip then this range is used to determine sight current. So in the end you have these varying currents that in effect control the reticle position. In the elevation plane the current strength is controlled by Range (Radar, Sight Idle range, Elec cage range or Stadimetric range) and turn rate. All Elec cage does is send a fixed range to the sight. This I believe is 600ft in the A4 sight. This causes the reticle to jump to a 600ft range datum position. This then provides a stable visible reticle whilst the pilot is manoeuvring for the shot. It also provides a nice "tight" reticle that doesn't flop around. This is because of the the sight stability factor or settling time ... which is a factor of bullet time of flight (0.5 x TOF for the A1 I think the same for the A4) and a necessary component of all gyro sights. So by setting a close in range via Elec cage you are saying bullet time of flight is also shorter therefore sight settling time is less and therefore you get a nice visible "tight" sight.

Edited July 28, 2014 by IvanK

[IvanK]

Druid you asked for a reference here is one that clearly states that Elec cage equates to setting a range sensitivity equivalent to 600ft.

 

 

So this implies that the current reticle movement you see in DCS when you press Elec Cage is slightly wrong. At present when you do this the reticle first moves horizontally then vertically. It should move smoothly and diagonally (along the aircraft plane of motion) to its Elec cage position (600ft range). This motion is directly along the "tracking line". This is the technique employed in pegged firing to help the pilot establish the "line" as taught to RAAF F86 and Mirage pilots in no lock Pegged firing.

 

The full document is here as provided by Mambo.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2136038&postcount=1

[IvanK]

In addition the Range indication on the sight head should reflect the actual sensitivity range the reticle is using. So if Mechanically or Elec caged the range scale should be reading 600feet. This is with or without Radar locked on.... caging Overrides radar range.

 

And whats more if Locked on with range > 2400feet the sight sensitivity (and therefore range display and reticle lead prediction) is clamped at 2400feet. Once range reduces to <2400feet range drum and reticle lead prediction then indicates radar range accurately.

 

. .... Source RAAF CAC/32 Sabre Flight manual