Any Airbus fans here?

[Flying Penguin]

AF447, need I say more? Anything with French electronics in it is potentially bad.

 

Yes, because nothing Boeing made ever crashed due to manufacturing or design defect.... :rolleyes:

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Yes, because nothing Boeing made ever crashed due to manufacturing or design defect.... :rolleyes:

Sure, Boeing has it's design flaws too. I'll put it more bluntly then; I'd rather not fly in anything French, knowing French work ethics first-hand (semiconductor industry).

[Flying Penguin]

Well that makes it clear at least....

 

So you aren't going to fly in the 787 then? Thales supplied the power circuits and batteries and we all know how that turned out.

 

And how many other Boeing models contain French electronics?

 

Sounds safer to me to just go by bus.....

[Shaman]

Well that makes it clear at least....

 

So you aren't going to fly in the 787 then? Thales supplied the power circuits and batteries and we all know how that turned out.

 

I was responsible to do continuous technical material management for 787s first European airline and by that also organized modification of 787a after the grounding. Noticed lots of bullshit in media affected plenty of aviation enthusiast judgement regarding this airframe. I guess some people are polarized towards this or that brand, but the thing is, both Airbus and Boeing are the only players capable to pull off such projects and competition is good thing. Boeing took huge risk to take not 1 step but few steps forward, turbulences were expected (but sold otherwise), and it was just top airline and manuf managers responsibility that jumped on this airplane delivery schedule promises way too soon to obvious consequence. If it was Airbus airplane that took few steps forward instead of one, history would probably be quite similar. I am working in this business for over 7 years, take it as you want, but for me 787 plane today is the best (don't care about brand).

Edited September 4, 2014 by Shaman

[Flying Penguin]

I was responsible to do continuous technical material management for 787s first European airline and by that also organized modification of 787a after the grounding. Noticed lots of bullshit in media affected plenty of aviation enthusiast judgement regarding this airframe. I guess some people are polarized towards this or that brand, but the thing is, both Airbus and Boeing are the only players capable to pull off such projects and competition is good thing. Boeing took huge risk to take not 1 step but few steps forward, turbulences were expected (but sold otherwise), and it was just top airline and manuf managers responsibility that jumped on this airplane delivery schedule promises way too soon to obvious consequence. If it was Airbus airplane that took few steps forward instead of one, history would probably be quite similar. I am working in this business for over 7 years, take it as you want, but for me 787 plane today is the best (don't care about brand).

They are both fine brands with fine aircraft and, more importantly to my point, truly global companies so picking either on the basis of the nationality of the engineering is pretty futile ;)

[Shaman]

truly global companies so picking either on the basis of the nationality of the engineering is pretty futile ;)

 

x2 :beer: true, btw guys, I like Neo too, it is looking sweet but my if I'd have to choose my fav Airbus now it surely is Airbus A380 truly magnificentoliner. Flew it to KL and back, had two rows of four seats for myself in the back - lied down in one row, wife in next raw ;) Finally met our squadron com! Good time :)

Edited September 4, 2014 by Shaman

[NRG-Vampire]

my fav Airbus now it surely is Airbus A380

 

yeah, luxury everywhere, in the cockpit and in the passengers "compartments" as well

 

 

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=%3D%22airbus+a380%22&airlinesearch=&countrysearch=&specialsearch=cockpit&daterange=&keywords=&range=&sort_order=photo_id+desc&page_limit=120&thumbnails=

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=%3D%22airbus+a380%22&specialsearch=cabin&sort_order=photo_id+desc&page_limit=120&page=1&sid=66312d14d95cb8b996588230f6ca0ade

[aaron886]

If Airbus would link the sidesticks up instead of letting them move independently, I would be a lot less of an Airbus hater. :D

[WildBillKelsoe]

Hmmm... I don't see how that is possible.

[super_baloo]

I'd rather not fly in anything French, knowing French work ethics first-hand (semiconductor industry).

 

Please tell me more about how bad is our work. I'm interested in your arguments.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Please tell me more about how bad is our work. I'm interested in your arguments.

It's no secret that French (semiconductor) industry is heavily subsidized by the government and the European Union.

French workers start their week shaking hands and kissing colleagues until 10AM, then engage in meetings until noon, then a 1- to 2-hour lunch ...

Then start some work in the afternoon, if the company gates are not barred upon return from lunch due to organized labour organisation strikes (I've experienced this several times).

 

One of my American colleagues was called by the French work's council because he worked "too much" (over 40 hrs/wk).

After they found out he is not working for a French company they quickly dropped the argument.

 

We have to fly our engineers over for weekend support because our French colleagues have worked their 40 hrs/wk and are not allowed to work any more.

They also like to use that argument now. When push comes to shove (difficult work ahead) we are also requested to send our engineers over, simply because they can get the job done.

There is no taking ownership or showing commitment ... that's what I mean with bad work ethics.

 

It's no wonder French cars have the highest breakdown rate of all for bad electronics.

There is a joke around here that French cars have the most comfortable seats ... sure, you need them when your car breaks down.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like the French "joie de vivre". And to the rescue; one of our teams in former east Germany has the same work ethics.

But I think in general France doesn't fit in the hightech industry with this kind of work ethics ... exceptions permitted of course.

 

http://www.ukessays.com/essays/cultural-studies/airbus-case-study.php

 

With this kind of extreme safety level product, I'm not in favour of any multi-cultural experimenting in one company.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[super_baloo]

It's really tough to generalize saying french spend their time at work actually not working.

 

Concerning your american collegue, there are indeed laws in france that makes it difficult to have the employes work more than 35hours a week. It happens that employers have to pay them more to work more wich most of the employees usually love to do but companies just don't. Your colleague not being an employee of a french company it's normal that it's up to his own employer to care about his work.

 

French car industry is doing bad because it is very badly managed IMHO. They don't sell enough so the management is increasing the pressure to all the employees and lowering the cost by using poor materials to build the car (to be simple). I have myself a french car (peugeot 207) and i'm not happy with the electronics at all.

 

That said, speaking about aircraft industry, France is among the best aircraft producer countries in the world from the begining of aviation. Military, civilian and even aerospatial. And it's because of france effort to build Airbus that Europe have a strong industry. And you won't find more accidents involving frenchmade aircraft than accident involving another nationality aircraft due to reliability. Have Mirage III had more accidents than mig 21's or F104 th? Mirage 2000 than F16's ? Rafale than Eurofighter ? The answer is no.

 

AF447 has not crashed because of bad electronics but by misinterpratation of the situation by the crew according to the BEA.

 

You will need better argument than saying because car industry is bad that other industries are bad as well.

 

And it is not because french workers care and fight for their rights that they don't want or even don't like to work. The productivity of workers in this country is rather high even though the number of worked hour is low wich mean working a lot is not the same as working well.

[aaron886]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Airbus has essentially held parity with Boeing for safety in the last decade. Still wouldn't want to fly Airbus if I could choose. Not my kind of design philosophy.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

It's really tough to generalize saying french spend their time at work actually not working ...

For me there is a difference between working (putting your hours in) and getting the job done.

Like mentioned, I'm missing ownership and drive (commitment) from most of the French engineers I know (with some exceptions in line and higher management).

 

I did see French spent an inordinate amount of time and effort on safety awareness though. That's a good point.

 

After the AF447 disaster they replaced the pitot tubes, so I'm finding it hard to believe it was just pilot error.

 

I'm sure not all is bad, but it's the bad impressions that stay with you.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[bongodriver]

Ah yes, good old pilot error, blame the dead guys you failed to train properly and had to deal with someone else's mistakes.

[Krupi]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Airbus has essentially held parity with Boeing for safety in the last decade. Still wouldn't want to fly Airbus if I could choose. Not my kind of design philosophy.

 

Please explain exactly what you mean by this?

Edited September 7, 2014 by Krupi

[super_baloo]

Ah yes, good old pilot error, blame the dead guys you failed to train properly and had to deal with someone else's mistakes.

 

I'm not blaming, i'm pointing the BAE report on the crash

Hans-Joachim is right, the pitot failed by freezing and therefore gave wrong information about the speed to the pilots leading them to misjudge the situation.

The pitots gave good information after the plane has loss some altitude but no one among the crew understood the situation that the plane was stalling.

 

It's a pitot failure mixed with human error. It's terrible that the plane crashed, hard to blame french workers for that.

 

Tell me if i'm wrong but getting the job done is productivity, french are possibly getting more job done than their over-Rhin cousins: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2013/02/25/french-workers/

:

[Rincevent]

It's no secret that French (semiconductor) industry is heavily subsidized by the government and the European Union.

French workers start their week shaking hands and kissing colleagues until 10AM, then engage in meetings until noon, then a 1- to 2-hour lunch ...

Then start some work in the afternoon, if the company gates are not barred upon return from lunch due to organized labour organisation strikes (I've experienced this several times).

 

One of my American colleagues was called by the French work's council because he worked "too much" (over 40 hrs/wk).

After they found out he is not working for a French company they quickly dropped the argument.

 

We have to fly our engineers over for weekend support because our French colleagues have worked their 40 hrs/wk and are not allowed to work any more.

They also like to use that argument now. When push comes to shove (difficult work ahead) we are also requested to send our engineers over, simply because they can get the job done.

There is no taking ownership or showing commitment ... that's what I mean with bad work ethics.

 

I generally agree with your posts here and there but this one is soooo cliché that any argument that follows goes moot. I wonder how can one be so narrow-minded. This no insult to you, I'm sure you are far more intelligent than that, that is why it gets me sad.

 

My girlfriend is English and has a congenital malformation to the left foot. Should I conclude from that experience that all English girls have this malformation and should not date any other English girl ?

 

Saying that you don't like the layout of the cockpit or something like that is OK, but saying that French aircrafts could fall off the sky at any moment based on what you could have experienced is just not right and honest.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Saying that you don't like the layout of the cockpit or something like that is OK, but saying that French aircrafts could fall off the sky at any moment based on what you could have experienced is just not right and honest.

Don't put words in my mouth; my statement is that I doubt the overall quality of Airbus, not that a plane can fall out of the sky at any moment.

You don't like my comments about French work ethics (based on my very own work experience with French engineers)? Tough.

As for mentioning AF447; it's showcasing Airbus' lack of (tactile) feedback to the controls. I don't like the fingerpointing to the pilots that took place.

I would also like to mention QF72. These accidents don't give me confidence. These are not old planes.

 

Edited September 8, 2014 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[Groove]

Please concentrate on the topic and not the workers of any particular country.

 

Thanks!

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I don't know much about airbuses but the mechanics of the airline I worked for called them "junk".

[ZQuickSilverZ]

 

Why is it every time I see this picture I want a Pepsi?

 

I can't figure it out.

 

Can Yoooooouuuuuu? :D

[Flying Penguin]

You don't like my comments about French work ethics (based on my very own work experience with French engineers)? Tough.

 

You don't like that a significant number of people have written you off as a garden variety bigot? Tough.

[NRG-Vampire]

Why is it every time I see this picture I want a Pepsi?

I can't figure it out.

Can Yoooooouuuuuu? :D

 

no, i cant :D

 

pepsi old logo ..........................................pepsi new logo............................logo of korean air

 

Edited September 7, 2014 by NRG-Vampire

[WildBillKelsoe]

I'm excited that MRTT will be featured in DCS. I can't wait to try the FBW system in DCS environment. Alpha floor, GPWS.. exciting times ahead!