Angle of attack after reload

[Vita_CZ]

Greetings to developers!

While flying with fresh aircraft at the beginning of the mission, there is no problem to takeoff and land. With full flaps down, speed of 400 km/h and power 85%, the indicated angle of attack is about 3 deg. (Approach in track at 0:15)

 

When I land and reload the aircraft, landing is almost impossible. At the same speed and configuration, angle of attack is much higher and there is not room for flare. (approach in track at 0:45)

 

Would you mind to check my track to see the difference?

 

Thank you!

 

Vita

MiGReload.zip

[Corrigan]

I can't watch the track right now, but you should be careful to reconfigure the aircraft after rearm/refuel; some things, notably the nosecone switch but maybe more stuff, reset.

[TurboHog]

I can't watch the track right now, but you should be careful to reconfigure the aircraft after rearm/refuel; some things, notably the nosecone switch but maybe more stuff, reset.

 

The nosecone may affect maximum performance, but landing with the auto nose cone position on or off on final at the same speed should not make a difference in AoA.

 

And I must say that I've noticed some performance issues after reloading too. And that was after I learned about the nose cone switch. I find it hard to identify, let alone quantify, so I didn't report it.

 

I think it's definitely a good idea that a dev takes a look at the OP.

[Corrigan]

I realize the nosecone can't make that kind of difference, yes, but I mean there might be other things that reset that can be of importance.

[Vita_CZ]

I know about this from the other thread, thank you.

 

Feel free to check the track later. As you can see, I finaly managed to land even after reload, but I had to fire the cannon and my fuel tank was near to 500l. ( and even with those precautions, the landing was far fromthe nice one). When fresh mission is started, it is not a problem to land heavier aircraft.

[Corrigan]

I checked your track, and took some screenshots. I tried my best to make the screens representative of the respective phases of flight.

 

The first one, the one with lights ON, is from your first landing. Note AoA of 6 deg, IAS is 400 km/h and throttle is at something like 82%.

 

The second (lights OFF), is from one of the aborted landings after you refuelled. I think it was the last go-around before you actually landed. In any case, it's the approach which starts at 45 mins into the track. Here we see 7 deg alpha, 400 IAS /and 85% throttle.

 

All in all, I had trouble seeing what your problems were. I'm not saying there isn't an issue (so maybe someone else could check too?), but as a spectator I found it very hard to see what you were feeling. Overall, the screenshots are very similar, also in fuel load, vertical speed and the phase of the approach.

 

Could you maybe rewatch and point out to me, via video or screenshots, what I am meant to notice?

[Vita_CZ]

The difference is quite big I think. Please note the vertical speed and the power setting - on the first picture it is about 7 m/s and on second almost 10. The power setting on the second picture is higher and the AoA as well.

 

My opinion is that after reload, the aircraft acts as if it was overloaded.

 

Vita

[Corrigan]

Maybe the devs should take a look at this, then.

[CZ_Iceman]

I must confirm this issue with plane after refuel/rearm procedure (but not every time). Before rearming i can land withoud any trouble - almost perfect aproaching and touchdown. After rearming plane is very "lazy" (poor acceleration and climb performance, wrong AOA in slow speed manouvers like landing etc. ) - seems to be overloaded or SPS system not worked correctly, landing is very difficult and far away from landing with "fresh plane".

Edited October 1, 2014 by CZ_Iceman

[Einherjer]

Had a Similar issue yesterday- After reload and refueling she flys... Like a brick. Every turn was near stall and the landing was terrible

[Justin Case]

I've had similar sensation twice now, but I thought it was just my imagination...

[Gate-5]

Just had the same thing in MP too. After refueling and rearming at kobuleti with 3 400l tanks and JATO I almost couldnt make it into the air before the end of the runway. At an altitude of 6km the max speed I was able to reach without tanks was about mach 1.2 with full AB and when landing it went down like a rock at 360kmh.

 

Duno if it has something to do with that, but I noticed the pylons for the outer tanks were completely black and there was a "dot" showing up on my plane at the F10 view. Also the canopy didnt open after rearm/refuel...

 

EDIT: Just found this thread about the nosecone-> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=130893 that explaines a lot, but im not completely sure about the landing. The plane felt heavier... I will do some further testing about this.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Gate-5

[Derbysieger]

I can't really put my finger on it but it doesn't feel right after a couple of rearms/refuels. I know about the nose cone, so that's not it. Even with a clean aircraft landings especially become increasingly difficult with time. No Idea what that is. Even repair doesn't fix this.

[eyusuf]

I can't really put my finger on it but it doesn't feel right after a couple of rearms/refuels. I know about the nose cone, so that's not it. Even with a clean aircraft landings especially become increasingly difficult with time. No Idea what that is. Even repair doesn't fix this.

 

I'm going to play WoT until DCS 2 is released.

[Corrigan]

I'm going to play WoT until DCS 2 is released.

 

Could you please go to the WoT forum instead?

[JorgeIII]

The bug is still pressent with the latest patch. After rearming and repairing the mig reacts as it has at least 40-50 percent less power or the airbreaks on. Yesterday in MP it happened to all 5 migs in the mission. The plane loaded wont mantain 500 km/h IAS without AFT and almost wont climb. With emergenci AFT it could maintain 700 km/h IAS.

[CookPassBabtridge]

Is it possible that something changes with the way fuel is fed to the engines after reload, like pump settings / valve configs? Maybe someone could check fuel flow whilst in the air?

 

Other than that, the only time I have seen a performance drop off was from using the afterburner for too long or overstressing the airframe.

[xxJohnxx]

The bug is still pressent with the latest patch. After rearming and repairing the mig reacts as it has at least 40-50 percent less power or the airbreaks on. Yesterday in MP it happened to all 5 migs in the mission. The plane loaded wont mantain 500 km/h IAS without AFT and almost wont climb. With emergenci AFT it could maintain 700 km/h IAS.

 

Did you turn the nosecone switch back to the on position after reamrming? Because currently that switch is flicked to the off-positon whenever you change youd armament.

When the nosecone is not powered, it will fully retract, and therfore create a huge power for the engine shortage.

[JorgeIII]

I did not check that. Will try again, but I now remember the nose cone needle was stuck in the full open (back) position.

 

The lack of power was clearly felt at low speeds also, where nose cone should either way be fully open (like when taking off). So there should not be any difference in power at low speed with nose cone off (retracted= open).

Edited October 14, 2014 by JorgeIII

[QuiGon]

I've experienced the same problem. I thought it's just my imagination until I saw this thread. Whenever this problem happens I always think I failed to drop the JATO pods after takeoff, because I'm using them a lot, but that's not the problem in the end. Unless there are some "ghost JATO pods" still on my aircraft.

Edited October 14, 2014 by QuiGon

[xxJohnxx]

I've experienced the same problem. I thought it's just my imagination until I saw this thread. Whenever this problem happens I always think I failed to drop the JATO pods after takeoff, because I'm using them a lot, but that's not the problem in the end. Unless there are some "ghost JATO pods" still on my aircraft.

 

That might be somewhat the case. See here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=132197

[Corrigan]

It would be useful if the people who have noticed this issue stated whether they had RATOs (they're not jets btw) on the plane at any point.

[xxJohnxx]

It would be useful if the people who have noticed this issue stated whether they had RATOs (they're not jets btw) on the plane at any point.

 

I quickly did some tests and having the SPRD-99s attached does not really seem to take a toll on flight performance. It might have some drag, but not as much as experienced by other users.

[TurboHog]

I've noticed this again in a 1 on 1 with a buddy. I re-armed, he took a new plane. We had the exact same loadout and fuel amount at the point of merging. He was able to significantly out turn me at the same forward speed.

 

Also noticed that sometimes during rearming, you don't notice weight/COG changes (airplane does not move when a new heavy load is attached, whereas a new plane is clearly affected). Could have something to do with it... Maybe it adds the drag from your previous loadout to your new loadout...?

[xxJohnxx]

I guess some tracks would definitely help.

 

@TurboHog, if you said that happened to you in a multiplayer session, you should have the track stored on disk.

 

 

Anyway, I tried to do two take-offs. One with the Nose Cone Switch in the On position and one with the switch in the Off position. (See attached tracks).

 

I tried to do the same thing flying wise in both attempts.

Full burner, accelerate to 300km/h, rotate, retract the gear, accelerate to 400km/h, at 600m retract the flaps. Then levelling out at 1000m and accelerating to 1000km/h in level flight.

 

With the Nose Cone Switch in the On position it would take 1:02 (minutes:seconds) from lift-off to 1000km/h.

 

With the Nose Cone Switch in the Off position it would take 1:20.

 

So a bit slower, however probably not equalling to the amount of performance decrease you guys are reporting.

NoseConeOn2.trk

NoseConeOff2.trk