Starting the P-51C in real life PoV

[Maulkin]

I am not sure if anyone else has seen these videos but it really gave me a better appreciation for the P-51D module for DCS. All the sounds appear to be very similar and the procedure is almost the same except for some key differences that I can only assume would differentiate the P-51C and the P-51D:

 

Part 1:

 

Part 2:

 

Part 3:

 

The two interesting things in these videos was the part where he takes two minutes to 'pre-oil' the engine before a cold start. I don't think that is modelled in the P-51D but I cannot understand why it would not be in the 'D' variant. Does anyone know why the 'D' would not need/have this? It throws me off a little bit because the starter is on the lower right side instead of the lower left but it looks like the switch would have been to the left of the starter.

 

Second was watching his stick placement during takeoff. We are told to keep the stick back to keep the tail on the ground and let the aircraft fly itself off the ground but I thought I saw in this video that he lifts the tail off. Anyone else see that?

Edited October 12, 2014 by Maulkin

[Sceptre]

DCS is awesome.....

[KLR Rico]

That video was amazing! I'm going to go fly the P-51 right now!

 

Perhaps the pre-oil pump is a modification the owner did, engines tend to get a lot better treatment when you're the one paying for the maintenance. :)

[Bounder]

Really nice videos, watched them lots and lots and makes me appreciate what we have with the DCS module. Regarding the oil cycle seen in the vid, I think I picked up somewhere that this is done more so when the aircraft is sitting idle for long periods in-between run-ups as opposed to active P51s. Might be wrong though.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Bounder

[effte]

The pre-oiling is a common mod on warbirds flying today, to save wear and tear on engines where replacement parts are getting scarce and expensive. You essentially have an extra oil pump making sure there's oil in the places where it counts before you start cranking. Otherwise, you have metal on metal. Starts are hard on engines. That's why you see gearheads flinching whenever some genius with a ballcap on sideways guns a cold engine up to the rev limiter when starting to show off how cool they are.

 

Letting the tail up is a good idea in real life, but the way "our" Mustang works make it less suited for this than the real life counterpart.

 

This is due to the fact that recent advancements in desktop consumer flight simulation technology can capture phenomena which hitherto were undiscovered, due to the limited fidelity of real aircraft and the unimaginative approaches taken in traditional aerodynamic research. It has been covered in length elsewhere in these fora, so I won't delve deeper into this here.

Edited October 12, 2014 by effte

[[DBS]TH0R]

Seen that a while ago. Very nice and interesting how he lifts the tail up immediately on the start of TO run.

 

Letting the tail up is a good idea in real life, but the way "our" Mustang works make it less suited for this than the real life counterpart.

 

Perhaps not best suited for the P-51D, but TF-51D which doesn't have armor and fuselage tank - might be a good thing to try out.

 

All the sounds appear to be very similar ...

 

I don't know about you but DCS Merlin sounds at best, sound vaguely as the real thing.

[Python]

I don't know about you but DCS Merlin sounds at best, sound vaguely as the real thing.

 

I love the DCS: P51d, but I agree, I'd love to see some better sounds for the start up and general flying, sound is just as big a factor as visuals imo when it comes to immersion. Thanks for the videos OP. I'll have a look now.

[Tucano_uy]

What is that switch that he plays with in the central console? I think he mentions the FUEL PUMP, he switches it on and off several times through the videos. If it is indeed the fuel pump, then I'm doing it wrong by letting it on all the time.

[Maulkin]

I'm not sure which one you mean Tucano? I saw him turn on the fuel pump switch and verify on the fuel pressure gauge that there was pressure but I never saw him turn it off and on again.

 

I think you guys may be right that the pre-oil was a modification but it is the same switch we have that is labelled "oil dilution". Not sure if that means anything or not.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Maulkin

[Tucano_uy]

I'm not sure which one you mean Tucano?

 

Right this one he's pointing with his left index finger. I can't watch the videos again because they give motion sickness (:mad::cry:) but if I remember correctly he switches it on and off several times.

[effte]

Right this one he's pointing with his left index finger

 

...while saying it's the fuel pump.

[Tucano_uy]

...while saying it's the fuel pump.

 

So, I guess you figured out why he switches it on and off every now and then.

[effte]

So, I guess you figured out why he switches it on and off every now and then.

 

Ah, my apologies. Didn't catch your first post.

 

You have a mechanically driven engine driven pump and then you have electrical boost pumps in each fuel tank. The engine driven pump is running whenever the engine is running and will suck enough fuel to run the engine, except for possibly at high power settings and/or high altitudes. That's in the FM.

 

The electrical boost pumps in the tanks are controlled by the boost pump switch, which I assume is equivalent to the fuel pressure switch we're talking about here in the B model. When on, the pump in the tank runs when the tank is selected.

 

Kermit turns the electrical pump on for priming and starting. In the D model Mustang, it's supposed to be on at all times during flight so the same should apply - no time to dig into the manuals right now. This is unlike certain other more common types, e g the Pa-28, where you use the pump for takeoff, landing and switching tanks but otherwise turn it off.

 

He then turns it off for the taxi and runup, to make sure that the engine driven pump is OK. If you don't and you have a faulty engine driven pump, you will only find out when the boost pump goes out and your engine dies from fuel starvation.

 

Finally it goes back on prior to takeoff.

 

Cheers,

/Fred

[Maulkin]

I watched him carefully this time and what I saw him doing is touch the switch, I am assuming to verify is checklist in his head. He only turns it off the one time in the second video at 6:57 once the engine is started. I stopped watching at that point.

 

But there is something on top of the front console with a red light and he presses something that briefy turns on the red light but I have no idea what he is doing there. He appears to do that a couple more times. Anyone know what that is?

[Skoshi Tiger]

I think you guys may be right that the pre-oil was a modification but it is the same switch we have that is labelled "oil dilution". Not sure if that means anything or not.

 

Oil dilution is where fuel is injected into the engine oil to make it less viscous on start up during cold weather starts. By the time the engine has warmed up the fuel has evaporated from the oil.

 

Does anyone know if this practice has discontinued when flying these old warbirds in favour of a pre-oil system?

[effte]

Does anyone know if this practice has discontinued when flying these old warbirds in favour of a pre-oil system?

 

They are solutions to different problems, so one is not dropped in favour of another.

 

However, I'm willing to bet that no one who owns a Mustang will start the Merlin if is cold enough to require oil dilution these days. It's not good for a rare engine. Besides, multi-grade oil would be a better way to deal with the issue...

[Snaut]

Thanks for this amazing video! Very informative and eye-opening, especially when it comes to proper take-off technique.

 

Interesting how much he trims the rudder to the right for take-off.

I'm not sure but it looks like the indicator shows 50% trim.

 

I love all the little details visible in the video, like the fact he taps the toe brakes just before rising the landing gear.