MiG 21 vs modern fighters

[Bidartarra]

Did my first MP session on TAW.net, did poorly, only shot down an ai B1 lol. got swacked a lot. too bad its not possible to equip CM on that server with the mig. Gonna try the 104th tomorrow.

 

At least lots of things were figured out today!

[Hadwell]

Did my first MP session on TAW.net, did poorly, only shot down an ai B1 lol. got swacked a lot. too bad its not possible to equip CM on that server with the mig. Gonna try the 104th tomorrow.

 

At least lots of things were figured out today!

 

yep, first thing i shot down on a multiplayer server was a B1 bomber too, now i've killed err... hundreds of F-15's... maybe over a hundred of all the other russian planes combined... the F-15 is way overused.... but i get killed a lot too, for the past few months though, it's been less deaths than kills, but i've probly still got a ways to go before its a 1:1 ratio lol, especially if i include mountains sneaking up on me, running out of fuel, and just random screwing around on the VA server getting me killed.

 

 

 

104th might be easier, no externals, no awacs, you can keep yourself hidden a lot easier.

 

also I found this the other day, it might help with the mindset I have... as the weaker force...

http://web.stanford.edu/class/polisci211z/2.2/Arreguin-Toft%20IS%202001.pdf

 

a lot of the ideas are directly transferable to dcs, others, like barbarism, though I guess the closest thing to that would be the aim-120, don't really fit in cause there's no real civilians when its just air combat, though i guess you could demoralize the pilot?

 

but this is my favorite paragraph...

 

strong actors lose asymmetric con�icts when they adopt the wrong strategy

vis-à-vis their weaker adversaries. Same-approach interactions—whether direct-direct

or indirect-indirect—favor strong actors because they imply shared

values, aims, and victory conditions. Because nothing therefore intervenes between

raw power and goals, strong actors will win same-approach interactions

 

and a mountain makes a really good intervention.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Hadwell

[Bidartarra]

Interesting find, gonna read that.

Im pretty sure my time will come, just need patience and practice.

Also mapping my HOTAS helped lots, it´s just a simple one (12 buttons) but I can feel the difference.

Need to use the radar a little more, still a little bit afraid of using it.

[Hadwell]

yeah about the hotas thing, I posted this a long time ago, but back reading to find it again is a real pain, so here's a repost...

 

this is basically what you really need to have mapped, i still use the mouse and keyboard for less important things, but i couldn't fly without at least this

 

mig21x55.diff.rar

 

Edited May 7, 2015 by Hadwell

[Bidartarra]

I remember those pictures. My hotas is a very basic one though so mapping options are very limited.

 

On another note, after spending the whole evening on the 104th, I shot down a Ka-50 with canon...lol and I took countless aim120 in the face.

 

But Im learning more and more. But missed an A10 bc I didnt understand how pylon sélection worked, and the missile didnt fire...lol mig shenanigans :D

[Hadwell]

ok if I only had 12 buttons to choose from... hmm

 

1. IFF,

2. radar continues

3. lock target,

4. radar reset

5. afterburner on,

6. afterburner off

7. stations 1-2,

8. stations 3-4,

9. SAR

10. IR

11. launch missle/rocket

12. fire guns

 

their pretty much in order from most to least used for me anyway...

 

is this anything like what you'd choose?

Edited May 7, 2015 by Hadwell

[Sleksa]

I've got a logitech extreme 3d stick, which has 2 trigger buttons and 4 buttons on the top and I'm doing quite fine with it by using the main trigger as a modifier button to be able to assign and use 2 actions on 1 button with ease. The most important ones that I use are:

 

1) fire weapon

2) lock target

3) radar on

4) radar off

5) cockpit cursor mode

6) center view

7) IFF

8) fire cannon

 

I've also mapped the following out of a strong personal preference:

 

kneeboard on/off

kneeboard mark position

 

 

Things like countermeasures, fix beam toggles, afterburner (+ emergency burner) on/off and weapon dials are things that are certainly useful, but I don't really think are used that much on the mig that they need to be mapped on the stick if there's not much room.

 

Also regarding countermeasures my philosophy is that If you're radar locked, the best way to defeat the incoming attack has nothing to do with chaff and everything to do with afterburning behind mountains and away from the likely direction of the attack. With some luck the attacker'll become target fixated and burn his fuel and ammo while chasing you well into friendly teammate's noses.

 

Another way to save space on a stick (as well as to avoid incorrect weapons settings that prevent firing) is to always use a default loadout where the radar missiles are on the outer pylons (most likely to be used first) and ir missiles on the inner pylons (least likely to rip off in a dogfight) with ir/pylon 1-2 selectors mapped on one button with trigger modifier and sar/3-4 mapped on another with the same.

[Bidartarra]

Thanks for the input guys, so far I have

1. Cannon

2. Weapons release

3. IFF

4. Radar lock

5. Trim up

6. Trim down

7. Pipper up

8. Pipper down

9. Radar on

10. Radar stand-by

11. Drop chaff flares

 

I have one button unassigned, I was thinking using it for the continue filter.

Or free the trim buttons to switch between IR/SARH or station 1-2/3-4. But I trim a lot so not so sure about it.

 

Also, does selecting stations 1-2 or 3-4 necesseraly means firing salvoes? Is it still possible to fire singles? I think yes but im not sure.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Bidartarra

[Hadwell]

1-2 still only fires 1 at a time, like if you have 4x R-60Ms, on pylons 1 and 2, it'll fire one from 1, then one from 2, so your loadout remains symetrical.

 

with the same loadout, if you set the switch to pylon 1, it'll fire both the R-60Ms from the same pylon, one per trigger press.

[Bidartarra]

Ah ok thanks for the explanation, I will try to play some more this week end and hopefully get that kill.

[Frostie]

Ah ok thanks for the explanation, I will try to play some more this week end and hopefully get that kill.

 

Don't worry it will come, for every good F-15 pilot online there are 10 terrible ones. The key to being secret is to flank the area of combat, in other words don't fly directly in.

 

The IR/SARH switch is very critical because you'll find yourself merging everytime so you'll need to keep your eye on the target constantly, moving the mouse to select a switch will make this troublesome. On the other hand while it is

ideal, trim is not so crucial for stick operation and you could just as easily use the keyboard for trim.

 

Alternatively have you considered using one HOTAS button as a shift button you can set this in Dcs doubling up your button total.

[Bidartarra]

Thanks for all the tips guys, they are super helpful!!

So I modified my HOTAS controls again using the modifier tip:

 

1. Cannon

2. Weapons release

3. IFF

4. Radar lock

5. Trim up

6. Trim down

7. Pipper up

8. Pipper down

9. Radar on

10. Radar stand-by

11. Drop chaff flares

12. IR mode

13. SARH mode

14. pylon 1-2

15. pylon 3-4

 

Mapping still in progress, but its already waaaay more comfy to fly now!

Hopped on the 104th to try those new assignments and I shot down an A-10, not as fancy as an F15 but still, after several hours of gameplay without any kills, it feels good!

 

I knew where our friendly ground forces were, and thanks to a few message exchanged by enemy strikers on the global chat, I knew were the enemy could be.

Went from the bullseyes to there very low and undedected, snuck up to the AO.

As I approach the valley I see burning elements coming down, I'm thinking too late!

But as I start to turn around I pick up an enemy contact, very close and overshoot. I quicly turn back around, the A10 is still there, I get a lock, he is above and to the right, I start a gentle climb to the right put the marker in the middle of the radar screen and shoot one R3R. I see the A10 droping flare like crazy and starting to bank away.

The missile hits and take a wing off, the A10 dives to the ground and explodes.

 

Man that was fun! :D

 

I think Hadwell used a submarine analogy in this thread at some point, that's how I felt hunting the A10s.

 

Edit : I think you were flying at the same time Frostie, you got one F15C not long after I downed the A10.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Bidartarra

[Hadwell]

two more kills

 

[Bidartarra]

Shot down 2 A10s in a row today, being chased by F15-1, we dogfight, Im turning in position to shoot a R60...I get an aim120c to the face from F15-2.

trying to find the track. A little frustrating lol but I guess 1 mig 21 against 2 F15 is kinda tricky.

Nontheless Im getting better at evading radar locks, still tricky to figure out when its a radar lock and when its a missile shot at you. The rear visibility is terrible (compared to modern fighters)

 

Anyway the Mig 21 is my favourite "multirole" plane for DCS.

 

Edit : track corrupted...poop.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Bidartarra

[coldViPer]

two more kills

 

Really nice flying, it's so satisfying to get kills with IR-missiles :P

[Hadwell]

yeah, here's another IR missile kill

 

I kill... i guess it's an su-27... it looks like he was trying to kill me or the F-15 I was following but lost sight and went after someone else instead... I fire an R-13M1 at him... but it doesn't track... and since i was so close i figured i'd save my other R-13M1 for a longer range target, but later on someone gets too close, I pull too many G's trying to escape and lose all my missiles, so I RTB... the mission rotated when i was on final for landing...

[coldViPer]

It's amazing how you found the enemy visually at night! :thumbup: Good kill.

[kmstewart64]

Hadwell ... you are the best!

 

MORG

[Hadwell]

Aww shucks... Thanks... I should dedicate all my videos to the awareness of the fact that missiles like the LAME-120 ruin all the fun in air combat, turning it into a lobbing contest :P

 

I think if more people saw it like that, I wouldn't get comments like "you make it look easy" because more people would have to learn how to do it too just to be competitive.

 

Though I guess a lot of the fun is killing fighters even though I don't have long range lobbers and they do.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Hadwell

[Tirak]

With the upcoming F-14 module this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. I predict Phoenix's are going to be banned on most servers.

 

More on topic, how do you get lock without them going hard defensive or engaging you and taking you out before your missile hits. Their RWR is a heck of a lot better at letting them pinpoint you than the Mig's is.

[Bidartarra]

^ I completely agree, brace yourselves, Phoenix crowded skies are coming.

 

Put up a small vid, my first complete sortie without dying, no kills though, but as a beginner it´s also nice to live sometimes lol

 

Disclaimer : video edition is still new to me!

 

 

I think im gonna invest in a trackir

 

Do you guys have any tips for radar usage?

Edited May 14, 2015 by Bidartarra

[Hadwell]

With the upcoming F-14 module this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. I predict Phoenix's are going to be banned on most servers.

 

More on topic, how do you get lock without them going hard defensive or engaging you and taking you out before your missile hits. Their RWR is a heck of a lot better at letting them pinpoint you than the Mig's is.

 

I'm not entirely sure, I've never really been on the other end of the radar lock in those situations, I'm just assuming either they ignore it, or I'm too quick for them to react most of the time...

 

I say "most of the time" because a lot of the time, they do escape, gone defensive, or attack me back... when they do, then i go defensive myself, and try to get them into my missile range without directly attacking them, or... i die...

 

^ I completely agree, brace yourselves, Phoenix crowded skies are coming.

 

Put up a small vid, my first complete sortie without dying, no kills though, but as a beginner it´s also nice to live sometimes lol

 

I think im gonna invest in a trackir

 

Do you guys have any tips for radar usage?

 

Yeah, not dying is always good, and yeah trackIR is a must since you gotta rely on your eyes a lot more in the 21...

 

Just use the radar as much as you want, but keep in mind 20 minutes, so leave it off till you're near the fighting... go to my youtube channel and watch what I do with my radar

 

you'll get others saying stuff like... don't leave it on, or just use it for a few seconds here and there, but in the end, all it means is you fly around blind to anything that's not within 15-20km of you, that you just happened to be looking at when it becomes visible... you're unable to id targets, and the radar will pick things up you don't manage to catch with your eyes just as much or more than you'll pick stuff up with your eyes that your radar doesn't...

 

so basically, if you use radar as much as you can, that means you don't wanna just burn through a tank of gas and have to rtb with not much done most of the time.

 

 

also, the center switch with the green light, on the radar standby panel thing, flip it up to the center position, it turns on the ground clutter filter, if you flip it up to the top it points the radar downwards a bit more (i think) but normally i just flip it to the center position

Edited May 14, 2015 by Hadwell

[coldViPer]

also, the center switch with the green light, on the radar standby panel thing, flip it up to the center position, it turns on the ground clutter filter, if you flip it up to the top it points the radar downwards a bit more (i think) but normally i just flip it to the center position

 

Flipping up it actually points the radar upwards by about 1.5°, I rarely use this but maybe I should :)

[Hadwell]

Flipping up it actually points the radar upwards by about 1.5°, I rarely use this but maybe I should :)

 

I've been watching your videos on youtube, you've pretty much got it down, some nice kills, especially that last one.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Hadwell

[Hadwell]

And another night time kill with an R-60M... I use the radar a lot more in this one though

 

 

I get chased around the mountains for a while, get behind someone, but lose him behind a hill, then get behind someone else (could be the same guy) and down him with an R-60M

 

very stressful sortie, felt like I was going to die a few times...

 

I do enjoy flying at night, so cool.