Two questions from a rookie

[Hoggorm]

Hi,

 

Just bought the Ka-50 a couple of days ago and been flying circuits around the airport trying to figure out how to fly.

 

Today I wanted to try some weapon delivery, and flew out to a range with a few targets.

 

There, in a hover, I was unable to select any weapons, even though Master Arm was on.

 

To start the aircraft I used this checklist. At the range I turned Master Arm on, but did not find anything else that should be on. I tried to select outer and inner stations with Y and I, but no joy...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=40789&d=1278968424

 

After giving up, I turned off the auto hover and returned to base. After doing so my airspeed in the HUD disappeared. It returned later when approaching the airfield to land. Why did this happen? I would like to have the airspeed visible all the time.

 

Thank you for helping out a rookie :)

[King_Hrothgar]

The airspeed indicator on the hud switches between a bar and a numeric read out at various points. After flying it since BS1 was released, I still have no clue what causes it to switch or if there is a way to disable that.

 

As for your weapons problem, I can't be bothered to go through that checklist, so here's the minimum steps needed to activate your weapons:

 

Right side of cockpit, vertical panel (all that crap you turn on at startup):

1) Left and right generators on.

2) Weapons system on (it's under a cover, the cover can only fully close with the system turned on).

 

Left cockpit, bottom left with all the weapons stuff:

1) Weapons system on (sounds familiar right?).

2) Laser standby on (it automatically turns on as needed to attack, unlike the Su-25's manual laser).

 

Front panel behind the stick:

1) Master arm on.

 

You can now select pylons with unguided rockets or the cannon and fire them. Keep in mind the cannon has its own special button to fire (trigger by default). And no, you cannot fire the cannon unless you have the cannon selected. Yes, it's a little weird.

 

You already know the additional steps for firing a vikhr or using the aiming feature on the cannon.

[Hoggorm]

Great! Sounds as if some steps are left out of that checklist I used. I'll try again tomorrow :)

[Yurgon]

There, in a hover, I was unable to select any weapons, even though Master Arm was on.

 

I'm 95% certain you weren't activating the "Weapon System" (aka "Weapon Control System"). That checklist of yours shows this item in red (optional), but AFAIK it's mandatory for using the weapons.

 

As Maj_Death already pointed out, the switch has a safety cover and is located to the right of the Ejection System Controls on the Wall Panel. (The manual lists it as part of the section "Onboard Equipment Control Panel", not as part of the Ejection System Controls section - yes, this is confusing. Blame Kamov :D).

 

After doing so my airspeed in the HUD disappeared. It returned later when approaching the airfield to land. Why did this happen? I would like to have the airspeed visible all the time.

 

Only a few reasons I can think of.

• Weapons active and weapon station selected. The HUD then switches to a simplified mode that omits most navigation data. Reset Targeting System to get the HUD back to normal mode.
  
• HUD airspeed indication requires the Doppler Nav system to be aligned. Doppler Nav alignment is part of the start-up procedure and takes some 90 seconds IIRC. Whenever the generators cut out, Doppler Nav goes out as well and it takes some time until it comes online again. Solution: Don't cut out the generators (aka: don't pull so much collective that you get a low RPM warning).

 

Another indicator for generators cutting out is when the Shkval screen goes blank. When that happens in flight, you probably asked too much of the engines (too much collective and/or extreme maneuvering) and the generators weren't able to keep supplying enough electricity to the helicopter's systems.

 

If your questions weren't answered 100%, you should post a track.

[BitMaster]

If you have a 2nd device, aka iPad Smartphone Laptop etc.. you should have the startup YT-vid running on that screen and use it as a checkboard against which you verify your knobs and switches.

It doesnt take many switches to forget to disable most if not all systems in the Ka...

but on the other hand the Ka is actually pretty straight forward in starting up if you have been through the sequence a few times.

 

Anyway, the Ka is well worth every hour of training as it gives back so much fun once you got the hang ;)

 

Bit

[Hoggorm]

I think I'm starting to understand the cold start.

 

I have a couple of new questions though:

 

1 – I seem to be flying a very much uncoordinated – the nose of the chopper is not pointing in the direction of travel. In a fixed wing aircraft this is very unpleasant and you would use the rudders to counter this. In the Ka-50 I do not find a turn and slip indicator. Is this not a problem in choppers?

 

2 – I’ve activated the “turn to target” feature when in hover. However it seems like I always turn too far or too little. The target is always a bit of center and I have to use my rudders to place the reticle over the target. Is this normal? Why is this happening? Why is the aircraft not pointed directly at the target?

[King_Hrothgar]

1) If you look out in front of the chopper, you will see a pole sticking out with 3 fins on it. Those fins rotate freely in the air and are used to clearly indicate the actual air direction around the aircraft.

 

2) I never use the AP except in flight director mode + pitch/roll/yaw (for travel only), so I can't comment on it. My suggestion is to learn to fly the bird manually. You will get much better results and you don't have to worry about the AP doing dumb stuff.

[Flagrum]

1. You have the yaw indicator beneath the ADI.

2. This is by design - given that you are in coordinated flight and that we are talking about Vikhrs. For Vikhr employment, turn-to-target yaws the helo a bit off the target so that the missiles have a better chance to intercept the guidance beam when they come off the tubes. You can notice that the reticle jumps to a different position when you fired a Vikhr, as the system then takes into account that the next missile will be fired from the other stub wing.

[Yurgon]

2) I never use the AP except in flight director mode + pitch/roll/yaw (for travel only), so I can't comment on it. My suggestion is to learn to fly the bird manually. You will get much better results and you don't have to worry about the AP doing dumb stuff.

 

My suggestion is you learn to use the AP and let the helicopter take some workload off your shoulders.

 

I think "works me for" is always a good thing. But in the Ka-50 it is clearly advisable to use the autopilot a lot. That's how the chopper was designed to be flown. If you don't like it, cool -- feel free to use and abuse the chopper in any way you like. But IMHO it is very bad advice to tell others to do it your way just because you couldn't be bothered to learn the systems first.

[TXSailor]

My suggestion is you learn to use the AP and let the helicopter take some workload off your shoulders.

 

I think "works me for" is always a good thing. But in the Ka-50 it is clearly advisable to use the autopilot a lot. That's how the chopper was designed to be flown. If you don't like it, cool -- feel free to use and abuse the chopper in any way you like. But IMHO it is very bad advice to tell others to do it your way just because you couldn't be bothered to learn the systems first.

 

I have to agree. I try to fly by the manuals as much as possible, to pull the most realism out of these games, and the Ka-50 calls for autopilot. That being said, the Ka-50 is actually not bad with the autopilot. Turn the three main channels on to be steady, hold the trim when making corrections, and press flight director for real maneuvers. Real simple.

[King_Hrothgar]

Maybe I'm just the odd one out that found the Ka-50 relatively easy to fly at first. I remember the AP confusing the hell out of me so switched it off and about 15 minutes later was flying decently enough (not pretty, but workable). It wasn't until much later that I went back and tried to learn the various AP functions. But at that point, they were a little redundant other than the FD mode to help stabilize for attacks in a hover. Thus I don't use most of the AP functions.

 

Regardless, you should do whatever makes it easiest for you. If the AP systems make it easier, then by all means use them. But don't get hung up on them. They are an option to help the pilot if needed, they are not required and the bird can be flown with great precision without any AP help at all.

 

As for the real Ka-50 being designed to be flown with AP, I have my doubts on that. It doesn't exactly have a takeoff and landing mode now does it? So at some point, you have to at least fly it in FD mode. Any basic learner chopper is also going to be devoid of AP functions. By the time a pilot is sitting in a real Ka-50, they are already used to flying manually. The AP in the real Ka-50 exists to reduce pilot workload during missile attacks and while searching for targets. That's all. It isn't meant to fly the chopper the entire flight, although it does have sufficient capability to come close.

[TXSailor]

Maybe I'm just the odd one out that found the Ka-50 relatively As for the real Ka-50 being designed to be flown with AP, I have my doubts on that. It doesn't exactly have a takeoff and landing mode now does it? So at some point, you have to at least fly it in FD mode. Any basic learner chopper is also going to be devoid of AP functions. By the time a pilot is sitting in a real Ka-50, they are already used to flying manually. The AP in the real Ka-50 exists to reduce pilot workload during missile attacks and while searching for targets. That's all. It isn't meant to fly the chopper the entire flight, although it does have sufficient capability to come close.

 

The post above hits the nail on the head about the AP not being a "true" AP and more of a dampener, and that's the distinction that makes keeping it on all the time make sense. The DCS manual at least specifies that the aircraft is designed to fly with the AP channels turned on, to reduce the workload in all modes of flight. It's certainly good to know how to fly without them in case of failure, but the aircraft was designed from day one with features like this in mind because of the other requirements of flying the aircraft.

[Hoggorm]

Thank you for your inputs!

 

I found the yaw indicator below the ADI :)

 

I actually find it more motivating to learn the weapon systems relatively fast after after beeing able take off, fly relatively basic manouvers and land. That way I'm ready to start a mission. After that I can polish everything that iI do not master as good as I want to.

 

I guess I'll be back with more questions soon :)

[Flagrum]

The "auto pilot" system consists of several functions - or perhaps you could call them "layers": if the system is enabled, but the buttons are not lit, only dampening of the pilot's inputs happen. This helps to prevent pilot induced oscillations to occur.

The next layer are the "hold modes" (buttons are lit). Here the system adds actively input into the steering controls to maintain a given attitude (set at the point of releasing the trimmer butto or collective brake, respectively). The intent here is to free the pilot focus from routine tasks like flying straight or at a given altitude - great when preparing for your mission, when operating systems in the cockpit, maintain situational awareness, etc.

The last layer is the "route mode" (switch at the collective). This is more or less what we would call an "auto pilot". It controls the helo to fly a given route or to perform other maneuvers (i.e. turn to target) automatically and on it's own.

 

So, the term "autopilot" is indeed a bit misleading as the whole flight control system consists of several functions of which only one is a true auto pilot. But each has it's purpose and is usefull in it's own way.

 

"Flying the Ka-50" is not that hard, thanks to the coax design and thanks to the always present dampening functions. The Huey is there much more twitchy. Disable even the dampening function and let's see how much you still can accomplish - besides keeping the helo in the air! ;o)

 

The difficulties with the Ka-50 most of the people have when they start with the Blackshark - as I see it and experienced it myself as well - is not really to fly the helo. The difficulties arise from the lack of understanding the different modes/layers of the flight control system if you intent to use and exploit them. But as I said, they are there for a purpose and they are usefull. Flying the Blackshark means, flying it together and in cooperation with the flight control system.

[Yurgon]

Maybe I'm just the odd one out that found the Ka-50 relatively easy to fly at first. I remember the AP confusing the hell out of me so switched it off and about 15 minutes later was flying decently enough (not pretty, but workable).

 

That's pretty much my experience as well. When I discovered the Flight Director, it suddenly turned my flying experience around and I felt like the helo wasn't actively defying everything I tried to accomplish.

 

But over time, I forced myself to fly without Flight Director and make active use of Route Mode, even though it seemed boring to fly like this. Much to my surprise I discovered that I actually enjoyed to lean back and let the helicopter do most of the flying while I concentrated on other tasks.

 

I haven't flown Black Shark in a long time, but the last time I flew it felt natural to fly without FD unless I went for aerobatics or threat evasion.

 

I think you should give it another go. Once you understand how the system works and how to have it do what you want from it, you may find that it's actually beautiful. :thumbup:

 

As for the real Ka-50 being designed to be flown with AP, I have my doubts on that. It doesn't exactly have a takeoff and landing mode now does it? So at some point, you have to at least fly it in FD mode.

 

Nope, FD really isn't required at all to fly the Ka-50. Like Flagrum pointed out, the AP is somewhat limited, e.g. it doesn't have a take-off or landing mode. But with the "right" technique, a pilot doesn't need Flight Director to land or take-off or maneuver the Black Shark.

 

This technique is inseparably interwoven with the trim mechanism. Once a pilot fully understands trim and AP, the Black Shark is very easy to fly hands-free most of the time. And I'm almost certain that it was intended to be flown this way. AFAIK real pilots hardly ever use(d) the Flight Director (though I'm not sure how much of this translates to the Ka-52).

[Irregular programming]

Please don't recommend the flight director, it's awful compared to good use of the AP.

 

Yes it's "easy" to fly with the director on, it is however not very smart nor does it help you in any way.

 

I've seen so many posts from people on this forum that have had trouble completing missions because they got thought to use the director instead of doing what you are meant to do and giving up most of the control to the AP and focus on the outside world.

[msalama]

nor does it help you in any way.

 

I've found it DOES help when doing evasive and hard manouvers, but _only_ then.

[Blackeye]

I've found it DOES help when doing evasive and hard manouvers, but _only_ then.

 

Well the trim button does the same thing in that case and it's not awkwardly placed so you'd have to let go of the controls first to press it (in the real thing that is).

 

Trimming does however overwrite the desired AP state, so if you want to return to exactly the same AP flight state as before then FD is helpful. If you need to re-trim after maneuvering anyway FD is sort of superfluous IMHO.

[msalama]

...sort of superfluous IMHO.

 

Well, I still think it's useful when you have to throw the bird around, because the AP doesn't try to maintain your flight state (i.e. doesn't fight back) while the FD is operative. You could also achieve this by pressing and holding the trim button, true; but this, I find, is actually more cumbersome than just switching the FD on and off as necessary (ctrl-A if memory serves). Just a matter of preference/taste I'd say :)

 

PS. And of course, you should retrim afterwards anyway regardless of which method you use.

Edited January 1, 2015 by msalama

[BitMaster]

I wouldnt say "only then". It clearly does help to disengage Hovering and dive for your life but it also has it benefits when you need to sneak around, low and slow to find your places or when you are forced to fly so low and fast that any AP is overloaded and wouldnt get you over that hill. going 250kmh at 15m does call for manual input, more or less, depending on terrain.

 

One thing is for sure, you better not fight the Kamov systems but life with it. Fighting the AP is a useless undertaking full of disappointments and failures, but didnt we all learn exactly this lesson when we got the Kamov ?

 

Bit