Will the Skies over Normandy be populated?!

[Decibel dB]

For myself what hold me to get online is my low FPS, I am very much looking forward for EDGE before saying anything else

 

o7

[WinterH]

I actually want to fly online with WW II aircraft but a few reasons bar me from doing so :

- Lately I'm a bit busy in RL stuff

- I want to have some semblance of consistency in taking off with 109 :D

- Since I haven't flown regularly for months now, I have some (nah, lots...) skill catching up to do

- Not trying to drag the subject or anything, just stating, but spotting has been an issue for us too when we flew with warbirds with my friends.

 

I do see myself joining some WWII servers in coming months, and may be even bring some friends with me whom I have succesfully talked into getting at least the Mustang, and am trying to get them buying other Warbirds too :D

[SlipBall]

I'm waiting to try the WW II map first, before I fly on-line or even buy new aircraft

[Call911]

When I can attempt a takeoff in a 190 or a 109 an not crash an burn. :D

[Crumpp]

It is disingenuous to make theses statements without disclosing what you are running with.

 

Ok, nothing disingenuous meant....

 

Honest mistake as I am not a computer guy. 1920x1080 landscape...27"

 

Where the heck is TIR???

 

:helpsmilie:

 

 

And to be fair, say spotting need to be improved, and move on, we dont need this to turn into a spotting debate is all I am saying.

 

Yeah I did not know all this monitor settings makes such a difference.

 

And for the guy spotting A/C at 5Km...that is ~2.5 miles. I have spotted A/C out to 25Nm but they were large transport catagory leaving smoke trail.

 

About 3-4 miles is pushing it for a SE fighter sized airplane in my experience.

[vicx]

Yeah sorry Crumpp. I wasn't jumping on you. It is just that the whole aircraft visibility thing is debate still raging elsewhere on these forums. I have noticed that making it a technical discussion with all the information out front can take away a lot of the heat.

 

You use a 1080P 27" display, that might be an average display, maybe even the type of display that ED uses as their baseline.

 

Now some guys using very large 4K TV's have mentioned that they can see enemy aircraft at ranges far better than what you can do in real life. This is not just technically feasible it is technically inevitable for some types of display and the DCS engine in it's current form.

 

You can do the math if you want but it isn't necessary. Just consider the arc minutes the display takes up in your view and if it is larger than the arc minutes being covered virtually you are effectively zoomed in even if zoom is not activated in the game. The higher the resolution you have the greater the benefit of the zoom depending on the size of the objects you want to see.

 

Sorry for the digression. Back to the Skies of Normandy :)

 

I think they will be populated but I'm also interested in the fields and roads of Normandy. It's not just going to be fighters vs fighters is it? Won't there be bombers to escort and targets for the bombers to hit?

Edited January 27, 2015 by vicx

[Charly_Owl]

IMHO DCS WWII can only be successful if:

 

1) Multiplayer framerate issues are fixed and server stability is improved (from what I've heard EDGE might be a step in the right direction)

2) "Dummie's Guide for every available WW2 Aircraft" are readily available (I'm working on that as you all already know). People don't want to read 200 pages to be able to fly and that's understandable.

3) Missions include various aircraft with different roles. Yes, that's spelled B-O-M-B-E-R-S. Once we have the Spit IX, P-47 and the Me-262 we'll have a decent set of fighters. But the air war over Europe was based around the interception of bombers and attack planes.

 

If we have that with the Normandy map, I predict a significant increase in influx of players.

 

Someone also mentioned how people don't necessarily want to jump into MP because they don't think they are good enough. Personally, I think the best way to learn quickly how to fly these planes is by having someone to teach you and someone to fly with. I cannot tell you how much easier it is to fly with someone who has experience. You tend to develop good habits (like checking your six every 30 sec) and you quickly learn the do's and don'ts.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Charly_Owl

[Crumpp]

It is just that the whole aircraft visibility thing is debate still raging elsewhere on these forums.

 

Yeah I did not mean to strike a nerve. Honestly, they have gotten so much right I hardly think they will screw this one up.

 

I definitely see how your monitor helps and can give an unfair advantage.

 

I think they will be populated but I'm also interested in the fields and roads of Normandy. It's not just going to be fighters vs fighters is it? Won't there be bombers to escort and targets for the bombers to hit?

 

I would love to get Normandy. You could do a great train-buster campaign with the P-51/P-47.

 

The planeset seems to be targeting ~October 1944. Most the fighting in that time period was around the French/Belgian/German border.

 

A big enough Normandy map would give us bases on both sides of the line, a rich tactical environment, and enough room for the strategic bombers. More people would flock to the game. Right now the pickings are sparse for both offline and online. The lagg and framerate stuff does not help.

 

I agree with Charly_Owl.

 

We need the B17's and B-24's. If not a flyable aircraft, at least AI in formation. The FM does not have to be super-complicated for the AI. Just give us something to protect, attack, and direct to targets for now. That can grow.

 

My selfish desire in bombers is the B-26 and the Fw-190F8 for tactical work. I would love to see DCS model it or even just some AI. I would pay 100 bucks a bomber if was to DCS standards and spawned a squadron of AI wingman to fly with you!

[Charly_Owl]

We need the B17's and B-24's. If not a flyable aircraft, at least AI in formation. The FM does not have to be super-complicated for the AI. Just give us something to protect, attack, and direct to targets for now. That can grow.

 

My selfish desire in bombers is the B-26 and the Fw-190F8 for tactical work. I would love to see DCS model it or even just some AI. I would pay 100 bucks a bomber if was to DCS standards and spawned a squadron of AI wingman to fly with you!

 

Multi-crew heavy bombers would be even more fun. But yeah, I'd pay 100 bucks in a heartbeat for a proper heavy bomber. No questions asked.

[emg]

 

The planeset seems to be targeting ~October 1944. Most the fighting in that time period was around the French/Belgian/German border.

 

A big enough Normandy map would give us bases on both sides of the line, a rich tactical environment, and enough room for the strategic bombers. More people would flock to the game. Right now the pickings are sparse for both offline and online. The lagg and framerate stuff does not help.

 

The frontline was already touching the Netherlands by september; line was at Antwerpen - Maastricht - Aachen.

Normandy proper is about 260km from Antwerpen; as other have said before, Ilya possibly picked that region for its renown and marketing power, not historical accuracy.

 

I share your hopes that ED have planned a map that extends well east beyond Normandy, and perhaps leaves much of Normandy behind.

Btw Dieppe to Bastogne in the Ardennes is about 330km.

Edited January 27, 2015 by emg

[Crumpp]

The frontline was already touching the Netherlands by september; line was at Antwerpen - Maastricht - Aachen. Normandy proper is about 260km from Antwerpen; as other have said before, Ilya possibly picked that region for its renown and marketing power, not historical accuracy.

 

 

I agree. It would be nice to have a large enough map that covers the territory and gives us room to grow.

 

01 Oct 1944 -The German garrison at Calais, France capitulated.

 

October 21, 1944 - The Allies capture Aachen, the first city to be taken in Germany.

[emg]

I don't know why he didn't propose a map centered around the Battle of the Bulge (dec 44). Maybe not as famous as the Normandy landings, but still.

Edited January 27, 2015 by emg

[MiloMorai]

Calais was well behind the front lines and isolated. Antwerp was liberated Sept 4.

[NineLine]

I share your hopes that ED have planned a map that extends well east beyond Normandy, and perhaps leaves much of Normandy behind.

Btw Dieppe to Bastogne in the Ardennes is about 330km.

 

The initial Normandy map, as far as I am aware will be similar in scope to what RRG promised. Dont expect ED to make it much larger, atleast initially for the map that is being given to backers, I would hope it gets added to afterwards but either way, dont expect more than what was promised during the kickstarter....

[billeinstein]

The plane list type host shall be changed. Select a base on the map and choose a plane to fly is better than the long select list now.

 

You know if the server have all flyable aircraft in both sides with 5 more for each of them, the list is too long, and too difficult to get where will I born on the map for newbies.

[flare2000x]

The plane list type host shall be changed. Select a base on the map and choose a plane to fly is better than the long select list now.

 

There are pros and cons with the current method of plane select.

 

Pros

1. Mission makers can balance the amount of each aircraft and aircraft per base available historically or for optimal gameplay.

2. If the server is full, there are an equal amount of planes per side.

 

Cons:

1. You might not get to fly the plane or side you want if they are already taken/full.

2. Gathering large forces to spawn in with at one base might be hard if some planes are not available or taken.

 

Overall I prefer your suggestion, having the "IL2 Style" spawn system instead of the current list of planes.

[billeinstein]

We developed a auto-balance system in our community's IL-2 server . One must join the fewer players side or be kicked. However this preventing a team to fly in one side at most time. The balance is a double-edged sword.

 

The plane list is also used in IL-2's coop mission. It's good for choosing multi-crew aircraft's position. Maybe something in BOS can be a good reference.

[emg]

There are pros and cons with the current method of plane select.

 

Pros

1. Mission makers can balance the amount of each aircraft and aircraft per base available historically or for optimal gameplay.

2. If the server is full, there are an equal amount of planes per side.

 

With just a bit more functionality in the mission editor, you can combine all this with a "click airbase and choose available plane" type UI. As seen in another ww2 sim.

Edited January 28, 2015 by emg

[gavagai]

There are pros and cons with the current method of plane select.

 

Pros

1. Mission makers can balance the amount of each aircraft and aircraft per base available historically or for optimal gameplay.

2. If the server is full, there are an equal amount of planes per side.

 

Cons:

1. You might not get to fly the plane or side you want if they are already taken/full.

2. Gathering large forces to spawn in with at one base might be hard if some planes are not available or taken.

 

Overall I prefer your suggestion, having the "IL2 Style" spawn system instead of the current list of planes.

 

I really don't care to see a server full of Spitfire IIa and Bf 109E-4N, which is what you get with the Il-2 system. I've been at this hobby for decades and one thing I definitely know is that players will not police themselves in the interest of aircraft variety. They need to be "guided.":renske:

[MiloMorai]

EZ42 gunsight - Extremely common on the Me-262; learned about it through our cooperation with Stormbirds. The sight was also used on FW-190's and Bf-109's.

 

JG 7 The World's First Jet Fighter Unit 1944/1945 by Bohme. Apparently the new gunsight was tested with the Me 262 by III./JG 7 in late February and early March 1945 after which Major Rudolf Sinner, the Gruppenkommandeur, decided against equipping the aircraft of the unit with the device. Evidently the high speed of the jet fighter allowed very little time to adjust the range controls for the gunsight to compute the necessary deflection. The book mentions that very likely the only victories claimed by a Me 262 equipped with the EZ 42 occurred when Unteroffizier Heiner Geisthövel of 2./JG 7 claimed two P-51 fighters on 8 April 1945.

 

In the book series Me262 by Smith/Creek, it is mentioned that the EZ42 was locked so it functioned as a regular gunsight.

[Bobby]

~S

 

I am not sure if this Normandy map even exists. I would like to see some screenshoots from year 2015 and progress that have been made since RRG left the project..

 

All new simulators support 100+ players when playing online

I hope that DCS World2-Edge will have atleast 100 players online.

I own all previous DCS WW2 modules but because of the bad visibility and constant lag and bad netcode, I have quited flying DCS online.

Singleplayer is really great..but that is an another story

[Crumpp]

I really don't care to see a server full of Spitfire IIa and Bf 109E-4N, which is what you get with the Il-2 system. I've been at this hobby for decades and one thing I definitely know is that players will not police themselves in the interest of aircraft variety. They need to be "guided.":renske:

 

I don't think they will either.

 

Human nature, Folks are very adverse to change and the introduction of new information.

[Celestiale]

I really don't care to see a server full of Spitfire IIa and Bf 109E-4N, which is what you get with the Il-2 system. I've been at this hobby for decades and one thing I definitely know is that players will not police themselves in the interest of aircraft variety. They need to be "guided.":renske:

 

Fully agree. Same in Battle of Stalingrad right now, it's pretty much 109 against Yak airquake right now.

I think the system in DCS is very good, keeps it balanced, what is very important. Just imagine if anyone can take the plane he wants, it will be 50 Me262 against 50 allied planes, you can be sure. People definitely have to be forced with this list, we have right now, this is the only way to provide kind of a historical reasonable plane setup.

[Crumpp]

it will be 50 Me262 against 50 allied planes,

 

Exactly. The Me262 is really just a curiosity. I wouldn't blink an eye if the dev put it on the back burner for other designs like the Typhoon or FW-190F8 or some AI bombers. To me it way down the list and "nice to have" sometime in the future.

[NineLine]

Much of this falls on the shoulders of mission builders, utilizing things like the resource management for airfields and such can make a difference... for example, if the Me 262 proves to be dominant, simple limit their numbers, so if 10 are available, then after 10 are used up, people have to switch to other aircraft. This goes for weapons, etc... (I do understand improvements for Resource Management of WWII stuff is needed as well)