JohnOli Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Hi Guys, Im new to DCS and I have read the entire F15C manual over and played single player. I have no trouble using all the types of Radar in multiplayer and I quite often find my self in an advantageous position over enemy aircraft. My question is, what am I doing wrong to not score kills? So in this scenario I was cruising at around 41,000 ft and I locked up an enemy F15 who was around 20,000 ft he was coming toward me. I got to within 18nm and fire 2x AIM120C's and continued my path toward him, the missiles went active right as he locked me up so I banked right to get out of there this was at around 12nm between us... he fired on me, I went defensive but lost out but he didnt get hit by my 120's? Did I fire too early? I mean I thought I had a huge hight advantage , my missles going down, his going up.. Other situations I have been in are similar but with me being not so high, get the drop on enemy aircraft and fire at between 15-20nm but my missiles always seem to miss and im forced defensive because they lock and fire on me. Thanks for the help in advance.
MacEwan Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Im no expert, but a few things that helped me when I first started were: Tacview Lots of research into how real pilots fight Learn what the term "Crank" means in regards to air combat (In the example you gave above I would have cranked left or right after firing my first 120) There are also many threads in the forum somewhere where people with an excellent understanding of air combat have posted. Some of them are pretty new too.
Exorcet Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Missile physics are not complete yet. High altitude can actually be disadvantageous in this sim partially because missile loft is not modeled very well. We are awaiting an improvement to missile guidance to handle this, when it will come no one knows at the moment. One of the problems with loft is that the loft profile is very simple. The missile tends to climb too steeply and then snap down hard too fast when it comes out of loft. This is very draggy. At high altitude the missile can also risk hitting its aerodynamic limits. The AMRAAM under the best conditions in DCS can reach targets that are approaching 70 nm separation at launch but in many cases will miss them because the loft programming requires the missile to exceed maximum turn performance to intercept. When fired at low altitude, the loft programming is less of an issue because the missile needs to climb anyway. So in effect loft is sort of biased to low altitude shots. In general, missiles are also fairly short range. In combination with the loft issue, I wouldn't expect a missile to kill a good player outside of 15 miles (max range where AMRAAM will not loft) 10 miles or so is where the kill probability starts to get high. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files
JohnOli Posted February 13, 2015 Author Posted February 13, 2015 Missile physics are not complete yet. High altitude can actually be disadvantageous in this sim partially because missile loft is not modeled very well. We are awaiting an improvement to missile guidance to handle this, when it will come no one knows at the moment. One of the problems with loft is that the loft profile is very simple. The missile tends to climb too steeply and then snap down hard too fast when it comes out of loft. This is very draggy. At high altitude the missile can also risk hitting its aerodynamic limits. The AMRAAM under the best conditions in DCS can reach targets that are approaching 70 nm separation at launch but in many cases will miss them because the loft programming requires the missile to exceed maximum turn performance to intercept. When fired at low altitude, the loft programming is less of an issue because the missile needs to climb anyway. So in effect loft is sort of biased to low altitude shots. In general, missiles are also fairly short range. In combination with the loft issue, I wouldn't expect a missile to kill a good player outside of 15 miles (max range where AMRAAM will not loft) 10 miles or so is where the kill probability starts to get high. Wow thanks, thats very handy to know. So essentially, shots outside of 15 miles, regardless of altitude are a waste? Seems very short for an AMRAAM. Do the SU27 missiles pose similar problems?
Frostie Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 Also pay attention to rpi and rtr, these are the markers down the right side of the Hud for launch cues against a non maneuvering and maneuvering target. You can guarantee most will be the later. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
King_Hrothgar Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 All the air to air missiles have these problems. The R-27ER should have a max effective range of around 80km, in game it's around 25km and even that's pushing it.
Exorcet Posted February 14, 2015 Posted February 14, 2015 Wow thanks, thats very handy to know. So essentially, shots outside of 15 miles, regardless of altitude are a waste? Seems very short for an AMRAAM. Do the SU27 missiles pose similar problems? For the most part yes, don't expect kills at 15 + miles. If someone is unaware, you might be able to kill them at longer ranges. Example is someone trying to hide above contrail altitude (40,000 + ft). If you find one of them and make them think you haven't noticed them you might able to lob an AMRAAM at them from 20-25 miles and get a hit if they're flying in your direction. All missiles in the sim have the same issues. In the past ED tweaked them together. When they resume tweaking missiles, they're probably be updated as a pack again. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files
JohnOli Posted February 15, 2015 Author Posted February 15, 2015 Thanks again for the help guys. Can someone confirm if your RWR only detects radar that is actually pinging your aircraft, or does it show any radar signals irrelevant of weather or not you are actually being pinged? The way I thought it was the former, so essentially if you see someone on your RWR, it means they can see you, via their radar? Or is it more complex? Thanks again
Frostie Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 The RWR picks up radar usually well before the radar can detect you, generally almost twice the detection range. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
=Pedro= Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Is't the RWR linked to AWACS when one is available ? Obviously it's not. The only link with AWACS is shown on HDD. Edited March 4, 2015 by =Pedro= Explaination Gigabyte Z390 Gaming X | i7 9700K@5.0GHz | Asus TUF OC RTX 4090 | 32GB DDR4@3200MHz | HP Reverb G2 | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog HOTAS | MFG Croswinds
Ironhand Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Is't the RWR linked to AWACS when one is available ? Obviously it's not. The only link with AWACS is shown on HDD. The HDD is, not the Berioza (RWR). YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 11 Pro x64, Asrock Z790 Steel Legend MoBo, Intel i7-13700K, MSI RKT 4070 Super 12GB, Corsair Dominator DDR5 RAM 32GB.
Gargoil Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 I have a question: When amraam goes pitbull, do you get a "lock" warning or "missile launch" on the RWR?
Ironhand Posted March 21, 2015 Posted March 21, 2015 I have a question: When amraam goes pitbull, do you get a "lock" warning or "missile launch" on the RWR? Launch warning. YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 11 Pro x64, Asrock Z790 Steel Legend MoBo, Intel i7-13700K, MSI RKT 4070 Super 12GB, Corsair Dominator DDR5 RAM 32GB.
Gargoil Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 At what range should I launch the 120 to go pitbull immediately if the target is coming head on? Do I have to keep the dot in the center of ASE after launch of it can be anywhere inside the circle?
Ironhand Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 At what range should I launch the 120 to go pitbull immediately if the target is coming head on? Haven't spent much time in FC3's F-15 cockpit myself. Most of my experience is from several years ago. It used to about 8.5 NM more or less depending on aspect, etc. There should be a countdown timer in the lower right corner of the HUD (marked with an "M"??), though, counting down the time until the current missile goes pitbull. Do I have to keep the dot in the center of ASE after launch of it can be anywhere inside the circle? After launch, it doesn't matter if it's centered or not. YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg _____ Win 11 Pro x64, Asrock Z790 Steel Legend MoBo, Intel i7-13700K, MSI RKT 4070 Super 12GB, Corsair Dominator DDR5 RAM 32GB.
escaner Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Do I have to keep the dot in the center of ASE after launch of it can be anywhere inside the circle? The steering dot and ASE circle are used to determine launch parameters. You can ignore them after launch. Just keep the target inside your radar limits while the missile needs it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MacEwan Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 There should be a countdown timer in the lower right corner of the HUD (marked with an "M"??)... After launch the timer is marked with a "T" (time-to-pitbull) when the missile goes pitbull it changes to an "M" (time-to-impact)
Shmick Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 After launch the timer is marked with a "T" (time-to-pitbull) when the missile goes pitbull it changes to an "M" (time-to-impact) Also, note that the time is indicative of the predicted pitbull / impact time at launch and that the effective times may change (e.g., because of the target maneuvering). Give it a couple of seconds extra if in doubt
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